On Thu, 2005-03-24 at 07:31 -0500, paddy wrote:
> Thomas Hobbs believed that men are evil by their very nature therefore
> government must be very strict and many laws must be enacted to control
> men or chaos would be the result. People must be made to serve
> government because government was wiser than the individual.
> John Locke, on the other hand felt that man was noble by nature and
> governments existed for the purpose of doing collectively what we would
> find difficult trying to accomplish individually.
Actually, I believe reality -- in the post-socialist movements (that
post-date both men) -- that man is evil, but man collectively as
government is more evil. The only counter-balance is individuality.
That's why public commons by individual choice, such as Linux and the
Labor Union before legislation work. Individual rights must be
preserved. That's why it reads "freedom of/to assembly" and not "rights
of an assembly."
And that's why mandated commons by government, aka "rights of an
assembly" or more commonly today "community rights" aka communism, fails
utterly, which is why the Labor Union, now bound by both pro legislation
and then resulting anti legislation, have shackled every good notion of
what the Labor Union was. I fear the same of anything else that is a
public commons by individual choice.
That's where most people get confused on Linux. Linux is not communism,
not yet at least. If Linux is mandated, it will be communism. I'm all
for mandating Open Standards, and in the strictest sense. But the
second we start believing "we know better" than people is when the
"community rights" argument takes hold -- and I see it today.
When most people think "proprietary software," they think Microsoft.
Most Microsoft software does not even qualify as "proprietary" because
it does not have long-term value to Microsoft (otherwise they would
maintain at least proprietary standards, which they do not). People
don't realize there are plenty of "good proprietary and open commercial
software" that is expensed if Linux is mandated. No, I believe the
merits of Linux stand on their own, with no advantage needed.
The same argument holds -- _never_ mandate because "we know better." It
_never_ represents _all_ individuals. E.g., there are many cases where
I'd rather have the choice of StarOffice, Macromedia Dreamweaver,
etc..., but they are still Open Standards to a very good power.
> The same mindset exists today in America and Europe. Europeans have
> never felt free and sovereign (in England the Queen is Sovereign) but
> are used to being subject to government.
But it has evolved, while we have de-evolved. I have often argued that
Americans understand Socialism far worse than most European nationals.
We're kind like the "Greeks" of the modern world. If the ignorant
majority gets ahold (and many people they have), then we're simply
sending off our army to find gold only to be invaded.
Today, that's our government spending the money of our investors on
useless social services, only to see our investors broken by its own
people. If someone doesn't understand the concept of "high income" and
"wealthy," then they are part of that ignorant majority.
> Americans are by their constitution, free men and women and government
> is a servant to the people who retain the right to change that
> government whenever they feel the necessity.
Of course our constitution has been hacked, slashed and eaten by its own
people. Sovereign states denied the rights of Americans, only to see
the 10th Amendment partially destroyed in the 1860s, and then completely
in the 1960s. The term "states rights," while a very Constitutional
term, is now the bane of "inequality" and "denying rights."
We did this to ourselves.
By abusing our sovereignty, we have given more powers to the federal.
Same deal for many other Amendments, 4th, 6th, etc...
Thank God the 2nd and 1st Amendments are still intact.
Remember, the Constitution might have been written by Legislators, but
the _People_ (or their state representatives) _demanded_ the Bill of
Rights _before_ most of them would sign it. Far too often I see people
dismiss the "Bill of Rights" as "just another part of the Constitution
that is flawed." I really wish they could talk to people of the time to
show it's quite the opposite!
> The power of regulation is the abandonment of the power to create laws
> by the Legislative Branch of Government to the Administrative Branch.
By "Administrative" I assume you mean the Executive and the Executive
Appointed Judicial. Now you've hit the #1 why we _are_ different, and
why European nationals can't understand us.
And the #1 reason why we are "better" if I could say.
Once I explain how the President has _less_power_ and is _not_ appointed
by the Legislation or other elected officials, and is often from the
_opposite_ party, they shake their head. Then I go in deeper and they
understand more.
> The end result is the hired hand i.e. "public servant", government
> employee, who is not responsible to anyone, not elected by anyone,
> making laws under which we live and setting conditions of same by permit.
Agreed. As I always say ...
I have _no_problem_ giving half of my sandwich to the government at
gunpoint to give to the poor.
What I _do_ have a problem with is when the government comes back and
says I need to give them a whole sandwich because they now need half of
it to run the costs of the agency they've built around this
"redistribution of wealth."
In capitalism, the rich can bend and otherwise influence the law, but
they are _never_ above it.
In socialism, the rich _are_ the politicians who _are_ above the law.
In a facist (socially run capitalism) government, which we are quickly
headed towards (and most European nations are), the government is very
large, which makes it easy for the largest corporations to affect
government.
The only government that is effective enough is one that is small enough
to only intervene on the _major_ issues -- not every little complaint.
Because the larger the government it, the more it can do, and the more
it can be greased -- which favors those with the deepest pockets.
It's a paradox.
> Both America and Europe have fallen into the trap of regulation being
> good for you.
Yep. "We know better." We do it to ourselves.
> The European has fallen much quicker because they do not
> recognize regulation as a trap as much as a natural condition of
> existence.
But at least they don't abuse it as bad as Americans, I'll give them
that. I don't agree with it, but a socialist America would be a very
dangerous place.
As much as I hate our media, at least our _non-state_ controlled media
is our balance. Nearlly _all_ other nations have state-controlled
media, and _most_ have state-run media.
> The politician likes the idea that they do not have to draft laws that
> are fair, well thought out and equitable. Just a few scribbles on one
> page and let the bureaucrats figure out the details. Then he or she can
> come home to their constituencies and tell everyone what a bang up job
> they did and how they should be sent back and by the way, please add a
> bob or two, oops Euro, to the kitty for the reelection expense, you know.
> Socialism sucks! The lazy bastard will always slack off and take at the
> expense of the useful and productive person. I like a world where if
> you don't work, you don't eat. I give to those I feel are in need and I
> give generously, but I damn well know I can figure out how to spend my
> money a lot better that some government employee scum.
It's not that the "lazy bastard" slacks off.
There's just no "market influence" to keep the federal agency to
efficient, so it is a natural result.
-- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org ---------------------------------------------------------------- Community software is all about choice, choice of technology. Unfortunately, too many Linux advocates port over the so-called "choice" from the commercial software world, brand name marketing. The result is false assumptions, failure to focus on the real technical similarities, but loyalty to blind vendor alignments.
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