I've been avoiding this conversation because it's bordering on what
might belong on SLUG-politics and I don't like getting involved in that
sort of conversation very much, but since my comments got included in
this response and I have something to say about it:
On Mon, 2002-02-25 at 23:24, Bill wrote:
> On Monday 25 February 2002 18:07, you wrote:
> >
> > But then, you can argue quite rightly that Sun's Java nonsense earns the
> > company the right to extra pokes in the corporat eye.
>
> Question: Who owns Java?
> Answer: Sun
> Question: Who has the right to decide what goes into Java?
> Answer: Sun
> Question: Who has the right to decide what does not go into Java?
> Answer: Sun
>
> Are there any further questions?
Yes:
Question: Who started the "Java Community Process" so that other people
and groups would (supposedly) be given the opportunity to make
recommendations and requests on what does or does not go into Java?
Answer: Sun
Question: Who claims that the "Java Community Process" "owns" Java just
as much as they do?
Answer: Sun
Question: Who is not listening to recommendations and requests from
various supposedly intelligent and experienced members of the JCP (i.e.
the Apache group) and just shoving decisions down everyone's throat,
despite the fact that the majority of members of the JCP don't like
those decisions?
Answer: Sun
Question: Which company makes a big deal about the openness of the "Java
Community Process" to make it seem to the general public like Java is
actually an open standard and uses it to great publicity when in fact
they retain a tight control over the technology and in effect there is
nothing open about Java at all and the JCP is mostly a lot of hot air to
keep the general public thinking happy thoughts?
Answer: Sun
> Sounds to me like the "Java nonsense" is coming from Apache, not Sun. Apache
> can make its offer of code conditional on acceptance of attached licensing
> terms but it is flat out ethically wrong to try to publicly cram them down
> Sun's throat.
Sun uses the various Java projects fronted by the Apache guys as
publicity. Apache Tomcat is Sun's _official_ Servlet/JSP reference
implementation, which technologies are a substantial portion of Sun's
web-based application platform. All the Apache group wants is some say
in what they believe the next generation of web-related APIs should look
like, since Sun has appointed them as the _official_ source of reference
implementations for their web technologies.
Instead, Sun is still using Apache and getting free engineering talent
to build their software, using Apache as publicity to push their
software and then ignoring the Apache group's requests and
recommendations. Sun's involvement has been primarily to "donate"
various "technologies" for the Apache group to implement with their own
license instead of some onerous Sun-made license. Whee.
Doesn't sound like the Apache guys have a one-sided gripe there if you
ask me.
In fact, after this latest round of Sun's shenanigans, Sun might have
completely burned that bridge. The JBoss guys already don't care what
Sun says about the software they write, they're going to let everyone
know that it's a full, FREE J2EE implementation regardless of Sun's
attitude. It wouldn't surprise me if the Apache guys went the same
route and just started ignoring Sun completely except for telling them
to bugger off if Sun wants to claim any of the Apache project's code is
an "official Sun implementation" of anything.
--
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usage: qrpff 153 2 8 105 225 < /mnt/dvd/VOB_FILENAME \
| extract_mpeg2 | mpeg2dec -
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/
http://www.eff.org/ http://www.anti-dmca.org/
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