There were a great many statements in the email to which I'm replying
here to which I took considerable exception. In each case, I examined
the statement and my probable response for any likelihood that anyone
other than Bryan and I would find it interesting. If I did not see any
such sign, I simply cut that section out and did not respond to it. I
did this in the interests of clearing up the ongoing battle of words
that has bubbled beneath the surface for a couple of days, with a couple
of notable explosions, betwixt the two of us.
I recommend you adopt the same strategy in the future, Bryan. Pausing
to consider each individual statement and your response for value to the
list at large is probably going to help you also recognize when you're
assuming the worst of my intentions when the worst is not applicable.
The two biggest contributors to the longevity of this mess have, I
think, been Bryan's tendency to assume the worst of me and my tendency
to take the bait far too enthusiastically. I apologize, again (and
hopefully for the last time), to the list at large for my part in that.
All of that aside, here's what was left after my editing of both Bryan's
email and my own replies:
Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> On Sun, 2004-12-05 at 22:58, Chad Perrin wrote:
>
> Most FUD is unintentional, be it because of a honest mistake or, more
> often, "aggressive marketing."
. . . and that "unintentional" side is where you seem to overreact. I'm
just tryin' to help you overcome your limitations.
>
[snip]
> The Linux kernel has LDM support. Unfortunately, parted doesn't yet,
> nor can GRUB boot from it. Once LDM support is added to these
> "user-space" components, then it should be possible.
Do you know whether LILO supports it?
>>Do you have some brief summation of the issue that would explain what
>>exactly the problem is, and why this difficulty didn't seem to affect
>>many users of leaner distributions? Is it perhaps related to KDE and/or
>>GNOME being present as a default GUI environment? I don't know how it
>>could be, but I figure I may as well ask, since I don't know exactly
>>WHAT the problem was.
>
>
> Hit Red Hat Bugzilla, I have _plenty_ of comments on there on the
> _exact_ issue.
Actually, you've already basically answered that in the email to which
I'm now replying, in text I cut out.
>
[snip]
> Gentoo advocates tend to be very radical. They make it about anti-Red
> Hat or anti-Debian.
I've noticed that trend.
> In reality, Gentoo is merely a "ports" distro, largely like FreeBSD.
> Red Hat and Debian are "packages" distros. "Ports" have their place,
> but building with full optimizations is _not_always_ better. Especially
> _not_ with "gcc -O3" on P3/P4 processors. ;->
Why?
>
[snip]
> you have shown me you know little about Fedora.
Good. I never intended to pretend otherwise.
>
[snip]
> I gave you the advise that you should really stop commenting on it. I
> tried to do it with full and intellectual reasoning. I didn't say "shut
> the hell up" or anything else.
No, you didn't use those words. I will not, however, seal my lips if I
feel I have something to contribute to a conversation just because you
told me I don't know enough about Fedora to play in your sandbox.
>
[snip]
>>Your attitude, as stated here, makes sense. If you're trying to equate
>>me with someone that says "Fedora must be poorly tested because releases
>>are so quick," however, you need to reevaluate the matter. I said no
>>such thing, nor implied any such thing. All I really said is that
>>Debian apparently sacrifices a certain amount of cutting-edge-ness for
>>greater stability.
>
>
> _Every_ distro does! It's to what level, how it is tagged, etc... taht
> varies.
Fine. Pretend that paragraph ended with "relative to some other
distributions," which is what I meant anyway. I had thought it obvious.
Note that I didn't specify Fedora.
>
[snip]
>>If I really didn't know ANYTHING about how Fedora did things, I wouldn't
>>have any reason to prefer Debian. The fact that I prefer Debian, and am
>>not a complete friggin' moron, should indicate to you that I at least
>>know enough about Fedora to be less interested in it than Debian.
>
>
> No, that's not true at all. Because 90% of people tend to favor what
> they are _familiar_ with and what they feel _comfortable_ with.
Considering that I was more familiar with Red Hat Linux, Windows, and
SuSE, and thoroughly UNcomfortable with Debian with my first hesitating
attempts to make use of it, I think you've just said I reside within a
10% segment of humanity to which this statement of yours (that it's "not
true at all") doesn't apply. It might be worth noting that I'm of the
considered opinion that at least 90% of humanity qualifies as the
aforementioned "friggin' moron" class of person. It looks like our
numbers match up fairly well.
As uncomfortable as I am with my brief brushes with BSD (utter glee at
seeing Firefox as the default browser on FreeSBIE notwithstanding), and
as unfamiliar as I am with ports-based OS management and BSDs in
general, I'm still looking for an opportunity to take a whack at OpenBSD
and/or Dragonfly BSD (based on OpenBSD). This is because I've
investigated the features thereof to some extent, and I would like to
find out whether this is an OS that will prove to be of use to me. I'm
not sure, as a result, that you should be commenting so much on
something YOU don't know about -- namely, my attitudes, motivations, and
approach to choosing one OS over another.
>
[snip]
> Why keep making the statement that "I prefer this, which is not Fedora"
> when it's not Fedora? I'm not asking you to justify your preference for
> Debian. I'm not!
[snip]
I'm only making the statements because you initially misconstrued
something I said about Fedora as being an attack, and the conversation
has evolved to the point where now I'm trying to point out that I'm not
actually making absolutist statements about Fedora for which I have no
knowledge basis. I'm not trying to justify my non-use of Fedora: I'm
trying to get you to see that nothing I'm saying is meant to contradict
your knowledge of Fedora or make untrue statements about Fedora. You
keep seeing Debian and Fedora in the same sentence, though, and assume
the worst.
Put down the banner and the sword, Bryan. Stop trying to make an enemy
of me. We managed to carry on most of a polite, useful conversation
today before you began seeing demons in the shadows of my words. Every
time I say something, you look for a way to be picked on (or, more often
today, for Fedora to be picked on) by it. Stop assuming the worst of
me. I'm not evil. Get over it, please.
Can't we all just get along?
-- Chad ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees.
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