On Thu, Oct 06, 2005 at 10:51:52AM -0700, nick velez wrote:
>> I come from a poor background. Growing up, I enjoyed learning as much as
>> possible about everything. I would spend much of my time at the local
>> public library as this was the only source of free education available to
>> me outside of the public school system. It was there
>> that I developed a love for technology, especially computers and
>> programming.
>>
>>
Pretty much the same here. The stories I could tell you... the primary
difference was that was a couple of decades ago. Back then, I was lucky
enough to come across C64s, assembly language, and BBSes. The few tech
books that existed were rare and far between. Libraries rarely had
anything aside from periodicals worth reading.
>> I am now a young man preparing for college. I want to factor in my love
>> for technology and also ensure that the past never repeats itself so that
>> my kids never have to go through what I went through growing up in a poor
>> household. I want to give them more than I could
>> ever have hoped for when I was growing up. I have two options that I am
>> considering which can fulfill both these factors. These are as follows:
>>
>> Option#1: I can pursue a career in software engineering by obtaining a
>> Computer Science degree. It is my understanding that this is a financially
>> lucrative career option. But I ask myself: is this a stable career venue
>> in today's job market? Am I correct in my
>> financial analysis of this career option?
>>
>> Option#2: I can run my own technology-based business. But then, what
>> degree would best compliment my hard work and determination? I can get a
>> Computer Science degree and develop my business administration skills as I
>> go along. Or, I can obtain a Business Administration degree and hire
>> people with CS degrees to develop the company's
>> technology.
>>
>> I am not seeking advice, but rather am interested in hearing your opinions
>> on what you would do given these circumstances. What would you do and why?
>> Any feedback is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
>>
>>
><opinions type=random>
>I wouldn't give $50 for a business degree. A lot of HR departments put
>an MBA down as a requirement, like it means something. But I'd take a
>guy who's actually been in business all day over someone with an MBA.
>
>
That's what a degree is for: to get past HR. I would just a non-degreed
competent uber geek a job than some college weenie that has 0 practical
experience... but that's not how companies work.
My computer engineering degree taught me very little more than I already
knew going into college. When you start geeking early in your teens,
you're going to pick up more experience than a basic University will
equip you. That's not to say that it has no value : the degree will get
me in the door at any large company without much question.
If I _had_ to go back to school for some reason, I'd get an MBA just to
have that piece of paper to get me into upper management.
>Which is to say, if you just want to do well in business, skip the
>business degree and pay attention in the companies you work for. Most of
>the things you have to do in business are either easy to figure out, or
>aren't taught in business school, or are taught wrong. OTOH, if you want
>to work for a big company, and want a better "in" than the other guys
>out there, get a business degree. Just remember, that business degree is
>mostly just window dressing to impress HR departments.
>
>
I will argue that this is what any degree will do.
>As for a CS degree, I can't say with any authority. Everything I know
>I've learn from books or actually doing it. I never took a single course
>in computers. There are a couple of advantages to a CS degree, from
>looking at people who have them: 1) they have encountered a broader
>range of problems to solve in school than I've encountered in the real
>world. 2) solutions to some problems may come more readily to them,
>since they had to study all kinds of esoterica in school. Assuming equal
>native talent and experience, I'd hire a guy with a CS degree over
>someone who didn't have one, for that kind of work. But experience
>weighs more heavily in my view.
>
>
The CS curriculum was a waste of time. I now have a piece of paper that
said "I put up with the silliness that everyone else did" to get that
piece of paper. The most interesting bits were really in the things they
forced me to learn that I wouldn't have on my own (eigenvalues,
engineering statistics, differential equations, thermodynamics). Do I
use them on a daily basis? No.
Realize, however, that the US is generating VERY FEW ENGINEERS right
now. There will be a severe shortage over the next decade when the
demand returns (rough estimate: 5 years). GET A DEGREE. Any degree. Then
get some job experience that qualifies you to do what you want to do.
>Running your own technology-based company is ambitious. Working for
>yourself can be scary as hell, and perhaps even more so for a
>technology-based business. Most people haven't the guts, and even the
>ones who do often fail. If you can pull it off, though, it's definitely
>worth it not to have to deal with bosses and stupid company rules. OTOH,
>if you run your own business, you get to deal with stupid customers and
>inept vendors.
>
>
It's less important what you know as WHO YOU KNOW. This is true with any
company you attempt to run on your own. You can advertise yourself and
expand that sphere of who you know, but it usually falls back to
networking for your core business success.
The better you are at networking, the more lucrative deals you can land.
Money follows people. Know people, find money.
I've been through a couple of startups over the past couple of decades..
the things I've learned from attempts to start my own business:
1. I don't know enough people to start the revenue to make it revenue
positive day one.
2. I don't care about the business side of things enough to keep up with
the administrative overhead.
3. I like understanding the technology and how things work, and in how
to apply it. This alone does not a successful company make.
This may change some day, until then: I remain employed... ;)
>If you're going to run your own tech company, don't worry about a
>business degree. It may look good if you want to present a business plan
>to get financing. But by the time you get to that point, you're should
>have a track record of success already, which should offset the lack of
>business degree. Instead, get the CS degree. That way, you can look over
>the shoulders of your employees. It also will make you more aware of
>what's possible and impossible in your business, technologically. In
>addition, that degree will go part of the way in earning you the respect
>of your employees.
>
>
I would argue: take acting classes. Learn to read people. Understand the
human element. Network. Grow your sphere of influence.
That is how you make money. People. Not technology.
>For success in business, _pay attention_. Business is almost entirely
>common sense. Read about the guys who have succeeded in business, and
>only listen to about half of what they say. And never follow any advice
>or wisdom that conflicts with your common sense. And be honest. With
>your customers, your vendors, and everyone else. Deliver a quality
>product for a reasonable price (a little of that common sense).
>
>
Reputation is what you build your business on. You won't keep return
customers if they don't trust or value you or your business.
>Despite what I've said here, you can still get a good job in the
>computer field. It depends on how good you are, how industrious you are,
>how presentable you are, and how hungry you are. There's a lot to be
>said for just being hungry. Persistence breaks through a lot of doors
>that otherwise would be closed.
>
>
There will always be jobs in the tech field. Unfortunately, they won't
pay what you're worth. This is a truism with any employee: your employer
will never let you know your true value to the company (you make them
more money than they pay you, or why would they keep you there, right?)
Tech in the US is going to have to compete with tech overseas. More and
more with China than with India. The best you can hope to do financially
is understand someone else's business needs, and craft tech to make
their business more successful. That's the one thing that foreign
contractors rarely deal with well: understanding the business of their
customers.
>What would I do? I'd probably go with what you're interested in. I'd
>work my butt off in school and get the CS degree. Meantime, I'd try to
>find a way to get real world experience in the computer field. Of course
>that's not what I actually did. I never had the patience with all the
>goofy crap I had to learn and put up with in school. I could learn
>anything I wanted to know by visiting the library, and learn it faster
>than it would have taken me in school, with far less BS. But that's just
>me.
>
>
Coming from someone with a Computer Engineering degree, I recommend that
you get whatever degree you feel happiest with. Get one.
Once you have that piece of paper, you have the thing that will get you
past most HR departments of large companies if that needs to be your
fallback. If you can put up with the insanity of a large company, more
the power to you (I prefer smaller companies for that very reason).
>OTOH, you could just go for a degree in history. ;-}
>
>
Nothing wrong with that at all :)
The bigger questions I would have regarding the future for my children:
Is the US the right place to raise them? Will the oil crash destroy the
tech industry altogether? How can I make money fast enough to buffer
myself from the impending crash of western civilization.
It's sad the things that keep us up at night anymore...
- Ian C. Blenke <icblenke@nks.net> <ian@blenke.com> ian@blenke.com
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