Re: [SLUG] RANT - Where Linux is Better than Mac (or, how I learned to stop worrying and love apt-get and debuild)

From: Scott Grizzard (scott@scottgrizzard.com)
Date: Mon Jun 01 2009 - 01:11:21 EDT


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I agree that mac is much better at graphics design than Linux, and that
the GIMP needs a ton of work.

I was trying to get at the fact that Apple treats users as either
"stupid people" and programmers, with no in-between.

In Linux, there is a natural progression from novice to guru, and people
learn about operating systems even if that is not their desire.

I was also pointing out that users always have "that one little thing"
that nags them, no matter what OS they use. In Linux, you CAN fix "that
one little thing", whereas in Mac and Windows, you can't.

At some point, the user will try to tinker and solve the "one little
thing" problem. In Windows and Mac, they run into a wall and give up.
In Linux, the user can fix it, and will learn something about computers
in the process even if that is not their intention.

I think Apple is making a huge strategic mistake treating users like
they are stupid - the next generation of computer nerds are not going to
be the ones who were playing on Apple. Apple is going to be in the same
position the Yankees have been in since 2000 - no "up and comers" in the
farm system, and they will have to spend a ton of money to generate a
second (or third) place team.

But, Macs are really easy to use, and don't suffer from the problems
that plague Windows. What's more, they are similar enough to Linux that
if you know Linux, you can fix a Mac 95% of the time (don't get me
started on the stupidity of the file system, HFS+). If you are stuck
helping your older relations with their computer issues, make them use a
Mac, not a Windows PC. Trust me, your life will be much happier.

If you are buying a computer for someone, and you want that someone to
learn about computers DESPITE their own lack of desire, buy them a Linux
PC. They will learn about computers, not because Linux is more
frustrating than the others, but because it is more inviting.

Hence, if you are setting up a computer for your son or daughter, pick
Linux.

- - Scott

Dennis Devine, San Antonio wrote:
> Nice rant! I'd go along with most of it except for
> when it comes to doing graphics design and
> web design. Linux still does not render fonts and
> web pages like the rest of the world. Photoshop
> is quantum leaps ahead of Gimp. While I have
> worked with Gimp and have tried to be productive
> with it, I still need to create material that looks
> good on 95% of the computers out there.
>
> My trusty desktop is Linux, but I still use
> Windows and Mac. I don't think it is a
> matter of being forced to make a choice,
> or even "switching." Why not enjoy all the
> computing options and keep up with
> the best of all the worlds. I have a
> Linux Box, XP, Vista and Mini Mac
> all configured thru a KVM switch which uses
> standard I/O devices.
>
> My last install of Fedora continued to have
> problems with font rendering and other issues.
> Ubuntu has made tremendous improvements
> in functionality. Based on the choice and usage
> of Macs by the professional designer, I would
> guess your recommendations of restricting
> Macs to my grandmother as slighted skewed
> and shortsighted.
>
> I would rather say, "Use the computer that
> allows you the greatest productivity and
> creativity. If you want to learn about computers
> and technology, use Linux. If you want to
> learn how to program and learn the inner
> workings of computer and the operating
> system, use Linux. If you want to be a
> designer or developer, learn and use all
> three.............."
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Scott Grizzard <scott@scottgrizzard.com
> <mailto:scott@scottgrizzard.com>> wrote:
>
> First, I am a Mac user. I am a Linux user too, and I was a Linux user
> before I was a Mac user. I run Linux on all my servers, and I run Linux
> on my desktop. For my laptop, I went with a high-end Mac, mostly
> because I wanted everything on my laptop to "just work" without running
> an xp vm like I do at home to run some software. I wanted a bash shell,
> I was suduced by iTunes and the cool ads, and I wanted to run World of
> Warcraft without dual booting (in the cold, dark days when Wine didn't
> work as well for games and we only had white presidents).
>
> I make (and always will make) everyone I give "free" support to
> (friends, family) buy a Mac or Linux, mostly because I don't want to
> hear the phrase, "I think I have a Virus" ever again! Usually they
> don't - what they have is a lousy Windows driver.
>
> However, if you know what you are doing, MACS SUCK! This is really true
> if you are into open source software, because IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO
> COMPILE SOMEONE ELSE'S CODE ON A MAC, EVEN IF THEY WROTE IT FOR MAC!
>
> For example, I found a bug in FreeOrion while I was playing it on my
> mac. I looked at the revision logs, and sure enough someone had fixed
> it. I didn't want to completely update to the Trunk, because there had
> been a bunch of other problems with other recent changes, and all I
> wanted to do was play the game.
>
> I downloaded the file I wanted off ViewVS, and downloaded the freeorion
> tarball for the version I was using. I patched the bug with diff, and
> then opened it up in XCode to compile it.
>
> 10 errors.
>
> Ok, so there are library dependencies...
>
> It has taken me three hours to find the various dependencies online and
> install or compile them for mac. After you find and install them, you
> have to tell XCode they exist one at a time, where they are, and make
> sure the version matches EXACTLY with the one the xcode maker was using
> when he first complied the software. For instance, I have Python 2.6 on
> my system, and the original compiler for mac had 2.5a, so I had to
> compile Python 2.5a from source (without installing it and overriding my
> setup) in order to use that one library. I'm still not done with this
> process.
>
> Compare this to Linux. I use Ubuntu. I needed a feature for
> mod_auth_kerb that someone had posted a patch for online. I ran apt-get
> source mod_auth_kerb to download the source code, patched the file,
> changed the version number in the deb file, and ran debuild.
>
> errors. Ok, so there are library dependencies...
>
> I ran sudo apt-get build-dep mod_auth_kerb. It installed all of the
> libraries for me. Then I ran debuild again and, presto, I had new debs
> ready to be installed with the new feature. The whole process took
> about 20 minutes, ten of which were waiting for the computer to compile
> or download a dependency.
>
> Did I mention that the Linux example I mentioned was the FIRST TIME I
> had EVER compiled a package from source to make a change? With a
> process that easy, it certainly wasn't the last.
>
>
> Bottom line, if you know what you are doing, don't bother with a Mac.
> Macs have this weird, non-liner learning curve that starts very low and
> stays shallow for a while, but then gets "super-steep" - it is very
> difficult to be in the tech-savvy but non-pro middle ground. Windows...
> Windows just sucks.
>
> Linux's learning curve starts a little higher - you really have to be
> able to install your own operating system and brave enough to try (even
> though you can stick an Ubuntu CD upside down in a 5&1/4 inch disk drive
> and it will install).
>
>
>
> However, Linux gives you a much smoother transition from novice to
> native, with very helpful people to guide you on the way. You don't
> even notice how much you have learned about software (without books, and
> without some ridged corporate dictated curriculum) until someone you are
> talking to (not from the Linux world and usually a Windows IT guy) goes
> "You mean you modified and compiled your own software? You know how to
> program C? I could never learn to do that... I'll just stick to
> Windows."
>
> Wait, I'm not a programmer - I just modified someone else's program - it
> took all of twenty minutes!
>
>
> I am tired of people telling me that Linux is "Of the programmers, by
> the programmers, for the programmers". No it isn't.
>
> It also isn't like commercial software, which is "Of the 'design
> department', by programmers, for Stupid People" or "of the MBAs, by the
> programmers, for the IT staff".
>
> Linux is "Of the USER, By the USER, For the USER". It doesn't assume
> you already know everything (or anything). It only assumes that you are
> a human, and as such you, are capable of learning.
>
>
> In Linux, the movement from novice to expert is a natural progression,
> without the sharp, ridged lines that separate different types of users
> (IT Staff, Designer, Web Manager, Developer, Home "Enthusiast") in
> Windows or Mac. This is not because you must do it, but because you CAN
> do it.
>
> Sooner or later, some little thing will piss you off, no matter what
> operating system you are using. In Mac or Windows, you just have to
> live with it (or shell out big bucks for an entirely new system or piece
> of software).
>
> In Linux, you CAN fix it. So you go online and read a little - maybe
> post something to a mailing list and subscribe to one to listen for a
> reply. Someone sends you a command to run that solves that little
> issue, and you find yourself looking at a blinking cursor on a black
> screen for the first time ever (or at least since you installed WINDOWS
> 3.1). It's not so bad - you start doing little things here and there
> when it's faster.
>
> You edit a config file to add an apt repository, or pull open the
> smb.conf file because you want to let your son access one set of files,
> but not another set. You start hosting a blog on your own computer and
> learn about firewall rules.
>
> Then you patch a simple piece of software from the command line and
> write your own batch script with a for loop to do a backup a particular
> way, and write a macro in OpenOffice. You start answering more
> questions than you ask on the mailing lists, and people start admiring
> your WHATEVER-foo. Family start asking you all sorts of computer
> questions, many dealing with Windows, and you start answering them
> because you actually DO know - not the particular Windows issue, but the
> networking/hardware/software principal BEHIND the problem.
>
> People then say to you, that one fateful day, "Linux is fine for someone
> like you, but I'm not a programmer."
>
> Someone like me? The first time I touched Linux was in college... as a
> Political Science major. A Libertarian friend of mine introduced me to
> it (we did an internet radio show - he was the "techie". I got my MA in
> Economics, and fell into IT as a graduate student job when my landlord's
> IT guy quit while I was in the office and I said, "you know, you can do
> that with Linux".
>
>
> The thing I hate about Mac and Windows is that they think you are
> stupid, or pigeonhole you into a "marketing category" which they then
> create and sell software to. That is why there is no "easy" way to
> patch and build software in Mac (or Windows). "Why would you want to?"
> they ask, "What is the market for that?"
>
> Linux makes it easy to grow, because that is what people do. There are
> wonderful tools that make it easy to fix "that first problem", and a
> huge community that is willing to give if you are willing to learn and
> try a little. Users don't start fixing things because they "have to",
> bugs get fixed and features added in Linux by other people all the time
> - just wait a little. Users start fixing things because they CAN!
>
>
>
> Windows is a little better than Mac in this respect. Apple goes to the
> community and shouts, "Hey look, we are based on an Open Source kernel -
> want to see Darwin?" That doesn't help anyone, especially someone that
> isn't already an advanced programmer interested in kernel design.
>
> Windows at least has the tools to write your own macros in MS Office,
> where you can start out, and then move to the free and easy to use
> Visual Basic Express when you want to write your first big Application.
> That natural path is only there for advanced Excel users, because they
> are the only people who start wanting to write macros in VBA for that
> "something that pisses them off". The path is narrow and not very
> smooth; people jump off when the next step is "too big" and hand it off
> to the VBA department, and there is a big hump from messing with a VBA
> macro to writing an application from scratch in VB.NET <http://VB.NET>.
>
> Game modding can be another road for teens running Windows, but that
> knowledge is focused on interface design. Some games have Python, and
> that knowledge can progress, but it grows only in one direction - to
> programming, and not to a general knowledge of Windows, or networking,
> or operating systems.
>
> (Windows also has so many problems that someone in the family or office
> will start digging around in the registry when something isn't working -
> the law of large numbers guarantees at least some progression into
> "Power Users", simply because the printer isn't working from that
> computer.)
>
> Windows used to be better - around version 3.1. DOS came with qbasic,
> and there were lots of apps you could modify and play with (anyone make
> the banana explosion bigger in the gorilla program?). You could also
> modify the autoexec.bat file and graduate to writing your own batch
> files to do things. But I was the last year of that generation - when
> Windows95 started coming pre-installed on every PC, those that grew up
> with qbasic and batch were there to program for it, but there were no
> new generations of natural tinkerers becoming programmers to replace
> them. The new generation came up on Windows9X, and they don't know
> squat outside of what is taught in their MIS classes.
>
> Microsoft recognizes the need for "natural new blood", and they have
> responded with free developer tools. But they still don't have a reason
> for a user to cross into a little programming.
>
> Mac doesn't have that at all (the programming bit, not the problems bit,
> though both apply). Even though they come with a free compiler, BASH,
> and X11, all of these things are buried in the "Utilities" section, and
> there aren't any little programs to play with that jump out at you.
> They don't get it, and they never will. They are firmly convinced, as a
> company and culture, that "we know what's best for the customer and we
> always will". And, to their credit, they have made a ton of money with
> that attitude.
>
> But the programmers going to mac are doing it for one reason - money.
> People learn XCode when they get (or are expecting to get) paid to do
> it. Mac programmers learn from Linux or Windows.
>
>
> And there it is - the Mac tools are hostile to new users and discourage
> them from ever becoming something more. Linux is inviting to
> intelligent people, offering a smooth movement up the knowledge ladder
> with marginal increases that people take because they want to do some
> small little thing - they want fix something, and they can.
>
> So tell your mom to get a mac, but buy your daughter a Linux machine,
> and let her learn and want to learn.
>
> - Scott
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked
Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages
posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the
official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.10 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkojYvkACgkQARR1QiSWUG4cWACfcn8emSVq58zBKkGN3uZ6Nmqm
UvIAn1g3JechzGYBOZOf2T3iMDZ0Mc1k
=G/PQ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked
Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages
posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the
official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees.



This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.3 : Fri Aug 01 2014 - 20:44:14 EDT