From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 1 01:03:22 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5153Me5022282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 01:03:22 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5153Mbc022279 for slug-track29; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 01:03:22 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5153LCZ022275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 01:03:22 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sa.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sa.nks.net [24.73.112.204]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5153LZB023870 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 01:03:21 -0400 Received: from haylee.gendns10.com (haylee.gendns10.com [216.180.234.5]) by nks-ma-100-sa.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5151gpc005414 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 01:01:42 -0400 Received: from pool-71-98-164-144.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.98.164.144]:50609 helo=sherman.mars.lan) by haylee.gendns10.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MAzdw-00023A-Gb for slug@nks.net; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 01:01:20 -0400 Received: by sherman.mars.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1C6D656A58; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 01:01:02 -0400 (EDT) To: slug@nks.net From: paulf@quillandmouse.com Subject: [SLUG] Mailing List Policies Message-Id: <20090601050102.1C6D656A58@sherman.mars.lan> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 01:01:02 -0400 (EDT) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - haylee.gendns10.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - nks.net X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - quillandmouse.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-HELO: haylee.gendns10.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-8.44, required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL -0.25, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_JOBOFFER 0.25, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, NO_REAL_NAME 0.96, SARE_UNSUB31 0.46, WGL_paulf_Pat_quillandmouse_Pdo_com -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net MAILING LIST POLICIES ===================== Revised 2006-02-01 R3.0 ----------------------------------------------------- CONTENT WE ACCEPT (IN ORDER OF DECREASING BANDWIDTH): ----------------------------------------------------- 1) Technical (Linux or computer-related) questions and answers. This is the primary reason for this list-- to provide mutual assistance to SLUG members with technical questions. 2) Announcements of upcoming SLUG events and summaries of recent events. Self-explanatory, though the SLUG Announce list is really the preferred forum for announcements. 3) Official communications from SLUG officers to members of SLUG. Self-explanatory. 4) Linux advocacy. Self-explanatory, but remember that bandwidth on the list should primarily be for #1 above. 5) Linux or computer related humor or news. Humor is acceptable, so long as it is tasteful and does not chew up too much bandwidth. Racial, religious, male- or female-chauvinist humor is not acceptable. 6) Commercial offerings. 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From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 1 01:12:37 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n515CbLg022364 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 01:12:37 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n515CbwP022361 for slug-track29; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 01:12:37 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n515CaXZ022357 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 01:12:36 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tb.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tb.nks.net [24.73.112.228]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n515CaJb025077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 01:12:36 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-112.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-112.bluehost.com [69.89.24.2]) by nks-ma-100-tb.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n515BPCo006060 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 01:11:26 -0400 Received: (qmail 22389 invoked by uid 0); 1 Jun 2009 05:11:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy3.bluehost.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2009 05:11:24 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=ICYIrSWM2AXmZDzrHrWiCCO9RTYvnuVGbed/geS28DP9OvbiComMe2hgjGZ3hDCHdEYrHvqgl9XIBvfUTomEkHxZMjgXdgGWcbdLJJsWiIenh7QGlFgEjsxZ5DQmDbry; Received: from cpe-72-185-219-61.tampabay.res.rr.com ([72.185.219.61] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MAznw-0000Ks-DO for slug@nks.net; Sun, 31 May 2009 23:11:24 -0600 Received: from scott-grizzards-macbook-pro-15.local (cpe-72-185-219-61.tampabay.res.rr.com [72.185.219.61]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2C2C8190883F for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 01:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A2362F9.6000108@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 01:11:21 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Macintosh/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] RANT - Where Linux is Better than Mac (or, how I learned to stop worrying and love apt-get and debuild) References: <4A206304.2@scottgrizzard.com> <547124bb0905301359q41de214bm6a563f1ec5b6b6b9@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <547124bb0905301359q41de214bm6a563f1ec5b6b6b9@mail.gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E X-Stationery: 0.4.8.14 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 72.185.219.61 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-112.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-4.014, required 6, autolearn=not spam, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAD_WORD_COld 1.00, BAD_WORD_credit 0.25, BAYES_00 -2.60, BP_FreeMicrosoftSoftware 0.50, BP_Kernelerrors -2.55, BP_MakeMoneyFromYourHome 0.50, BP_MicrosoftOfficeXPProfessional 0.25, BP_TheProfessionalWay 0.30, BP_biggerthebetter 0.40, BP_haveaPCwithinternetaccess 0.25, BP_nksnetKernelerrors -2.55, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I agree that mac is much better at graphics design than Linux, and that the GIMP needs a ton of work. I was trying to get at the fact that Apple treats users as either "stupid people" and programmers, with no in-between. In Linux, there is a natural progression from novice to guru, and people learn about operating systems even if that is not their desire. I was also pointing out that users always have "that one little thing" that nags them, no matter what OS they use. In Linux, you CAN fix "that one little thing", whereas in Mac and Windows, you can't. At some point, the user will try to tinker and solve the "one little thing" problem. In Windows and Mac, they run into a wall and give up. In Linux, the user can fix it, and will learn something about computers in the process even if that is not their intention. I think Apple is making a huge strategic mistake treating users like they are stupid - the next generation of computer nerds are not going to be the ones who were playing on Apple. Apple is going to be in the same position the Yankees have been in since 2000 - no "up and comers" in the farm system, and they will have to spend a ton of money to generate a second (or third) place team. But, Macs are really easy to use, and don't suffer from the problems that plague Windows. What's more, they are similar enough to Linux that if you know Linux, you can fix a Mac 95% of the time (don't get me started on the stupidity of the file system, HFS+). If you are stuck helping your older relations with their computer issues, make them use a Mac, not a Windows PC. Trust me, your life will be much happier. If you are buying a computer for someone, and you want that someone to learn about computers DESPITE their own lack of desire, buy them a Linux PC. They will learn about computers, not because Linux is more frustrating than the others, but because it is more inviting. Hence, if you are setting up a computer for your son or daughter, pick Linux. - - Scott Dennis Devine, San Antonio wrote: > Nice rant! I'd go along with most of it except for > when it comes to doing graphics design and > web design. Linux still does not render fonts and > web pages like the rest of the world. Photoshop > is quantum leaps ahead of Gimp. While I have > worked with Gimp and have tried to be productive > with it, I still need to create material that looks > good on 95% of the computers out there. > > My trusty desktop is Linux, but I still use > Windows and Mac. I don't think it is a > matter of being forced to make a choice, > or even "switching." Why not enjoy all the > computing options and keep up with > the best of all the worlds. I have a > Linux Box, XP, Vista and Mini Mac > all configured thru a KVM switch which uses > standard I/O devices. > > My last install of Fedora continued to have > problems with font rendering and other issues. > Ubuntu has made tremendous improvements > in functionality. Based on the choice and usage > of Macs by the professional designer, I would > guess your recommendations of restricting > Macs to my grandmother as slighted skewed > and shortsighted. > > I would rather say, "Use the computer that > allows you the greatest productivity and > creativity. If you want to learn about computers > and technology, use Linux. If you want to > learn how to program and learn the inner > workings of computer and the operating > system, use Linux. If you want to be a > designer or developer, learn and use all > three.............." > > > > > On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Scott Grizzard > wrote: > > First, I am a Mac user. I am a Linux user too, and I was a Linux user > before I was a Mac user. I run Linux on all my servers, and I run Linux > on my desktop. For my laptop, I went with a high-end Mac, mostly > because I wanted everything on my laptop to "just work" without running > an xp vm like I do at home to run some software. I wanted a bash shell, > I was suduced by iTunes and the cool ads, and I wanted to run World of > Warcraft without dual booting (in the cold, dark days when Wine didn't > work as well for games and we only had white presidents). > > I make (and always will make) everyone I give "free" support to > (friends, family) buy a Mac or Linux, mostly because I don't want to > hear the phrase, "I think I have a Virus" ever again! Usually they > don't - what they have is a lousy Windows driver. > > However, if you know what you are doing, MACS SUCK! This is really true > if you are into open source software, because IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO > COMPILE SOMEONE ELSE'S CODE ON A MAC, EVEN IF THEY WROTE IT FOR MAC! > > For example, I found a bug in FreeOrion while I was playing it on my > mac. I looked at the revision logs, and sure enough someone had fixed > it. I didn't want to completely update to the Trunk, because there had > been a bunch of other problems with other recent changes, and all I > wanted to do was play the game. > > I downloaded the file I wanted off ViewVS, and downloaded the freeorion > tarball for the version I was using. I patched the bug with diff, and > then opened it up in XCode to compile it. > > 10 errors. > > Ok, so there are library dependencies... > > It has taken me three hours to find the various dependencies online and > install or compile them for mac. After you find and install them, you > have to tell XCode they exist one at a time, where they are, and make > sure the version matches EXACTLY with the one the xcode maker was using > when he first complied the software. For instance, I have Python 2.6 on > my system, and the original compiler for mac had 2.5a, so I had to > compile Python 2.5a from source (without installing it and overriding my > setup) in order to use that one library. I'm still not done with this > process. > > Compare this to Linux. I use Ubuntu. I needed a feature for > mod_auth_kerb that someone had posted a patch for online. I ran apt-get > source mod_auth_kerb to download the source code, patched the file, > changed the version number in the deb file, and ran debuild. > > errors. Ok, so there are library dependencies... > > I ran sudo apt-get build-dep mod_auth_kerb. It installed all of the > libraries for me. Then I ran debuild again and, presto, I had new debs > ready to be installed with the new feature. The whole process took > about 20 minutes, ten of which were waiting for the computer to compile > or download a dependency. > > Did I mention that the Linux example I mentioned was the FIRST TIME I > had EVER compiled a package from source to make a change? With a > process that easy, it certainly wasn't the last. > > > Bottom line, if you know what you are doing, don't bother with a Mac. > Macs have this weird, non-liner learning curve that starts very low and > stays shallow for a while, but then gets "super-steep" - it is very > difficult to be in the tech-savvy but non-pro middle ground. Windows... > Windows just sucks. > > Linux's learning curve starts a little higher - you really have to be > able to install your own operating system and brave enough to try (even > though you can stick an Ubuntu CD upside down in a 5&1/4 inch disk drive > and it will install). > > > > However, Linux gives you a much smoother transition from novice to > native, with very helpful people to guide you on the way. You don't > even notice how much you have learned about software (without books, and > without some ridged corporate dictated curriculum) until someone you are > talking to (not from the Linux world and usually a Windows IT guy) goes > "You mean you modified and compiled your own software? You know how to > program C? I could never learn to do that... I'll just stick to > Windows." > > Wait, I'm not a programmer - I just modified someone else's program - it > took all of twenty minutes! > > > I am tired of people telling me that Linux is "Of the programmers, by > the programmers, for the programmers". No it isn't. > > It also isn't like commercial software, which is "Of the 'design > department', by programmers, for Stupid People" or "of the MBAs, by the > programmers, for the IT staff". > > Linux is "Of the USER, By the USER, For the USER". It doesn't assume > you already know everything (or anything). It only assumes that you are > a human, and as such you, are capable of learning. > > > In Linux, the movement from novice to expert is a natural progression, > without the sharp, ridged lines that separate different types of users > (IT Staff, Designer, Web Manager, Developer, Home "Enthusiast") in > Windows or Mac. This is not because you must do it, but because you CAN > do it. > > Sooner or later, some little thing will piss you off, no matter what > operating system you are using. In Mac or Windows, you just have to > live with it (or shell out big bucks for an entirely new system or piece > of software). > > In Linux, you CAN fix it. So you go online and read a little - maybe > post something to a mailing list and subscribe to one to listen for a > reply. Someone sends you a command to run that solves that little > issue, and you find yourself looking at a blinking cursor on a black > screen for the first time ever (or at least since you installed WINDOWS > 3.1). It's not so bad - you start doing little things here and there > when it's faster. > > You edit a config file to add an apt repository, or pull open the > smb.conf file because you want to let your son access one set of files, > but not another set. You start hosting a blog on your own computer and > learn about firewall rules. > > Then you patch a simple piece of software from the command line and > write your own batch script with a for loop to do a backup a particular > way, and write a macro in OpenOffice. You start answering more > questions than you ask on the mailing lists, and people start admiring > your WHATEVER-foo. Family start asking you all sorts of computer > questions, many dealing with Windows, and you start answering them > because you actually DO know - not the particular Windows issue, but the > networking/hardware/software principal BEHIND the problem. > > People then say to you, that one fateful day, "Linux is fine for someone > like you, but I'm not a programmer." > > Someone like me? The first time I touched Linux was in college... as a > Political Science major. A Libertarian friend of mine introduced me to > it (we did an internet radio show - he was the "techie". I got my MA in > Economics, and fell into IT as a graduate student job when my landlord's > IT guy quit while I was in the office and I said, "you know, you can do > that with Linux". > > > The thing I hate about Mac and Windows is that they think you are > stupid, or pigeonhole you into a "marketing category" which they then > create and sell software to. That is why there is no "easy" way to > patch and build software in Mac (or Windows). "Why would you want to?" > they ask, "What is the market for that?" > > Linux makes it easy to grow, because that is what people do. There are > wonderful tools that make it easy to fix "that first problem", and a > huge community that is willing to give if you are willing to learn and > try a little. Users don't start fixing things because they "have to", > bugs get fixed and features added in Linux by other people all the time > - just wait a little. Users start fixing things because they CAN! > > > > Windows is a little better than Mac in this respect. Apple goes to the > community and shouts, "Hey look, we are based on an Open Source kernel - > want to see Darwin?" That doesn't help anyone, especially someone that > isn't already an advanced programmer interested in kernel design. > > Windows at least has the tools to write your own macros in MS Office, > where you can start out, and then move to the free and easy to use > Visual Basic Express when you want to write your first big Application. > That natural path is only there for advanced Excel users, because they > are the only people who start wanting to write macros in VBA for that > "something that pisses them off". The path is narrow and not very > smooth; people jump off when the next step is "too big" and hand it off > to the VBA department, and there is a big hump from messing with a VBA > macro to writing an application from scratch in VB.NET . > > Game modding can be another road for teens running Windows, but that > knowledge is focused on interface design. Some games have Python, and > that knowledge can progress, but it grows only in one direction - to > programming, and not to a general knowledge of Windows, or networking, > or operating systems. > > (Windows also has so many problems that someone in the family or office > will start digging around in the registry when something isn't working - > the law of large numbers guarantees at least some progression into > "Power Users", simply because the printer isn't working from that > computer.) > > Windows used to be better - around version 3.1. DOS came with qbasic, > and there were lots of apps you could modify and play with (anyone make > the banana explosion bigger in the gorilla program?). You could also > modify the autoexec.bat file and graduate to writing your own batch > files to do things. But I was the last year of that generation - when > Windows95 started coming pre-installed on every PC, those that grew up > with qbasic and batch were there to program for it, but there were no > new generations of natural tinkerers becoming programmers to replace > them. The new generation came up on Windows9X, and they don't know > squat outside of what is taught in their MIS classes. > > Microsoft recognizes the need for "natural new blood", and they have > responded with free developer tools. But they still don't have a reason > for a user to cross into a little programming. > > Mac doesn't have that at all (the programming bit, not the problems bit, > though both apply). Even though they come with a free compiler, BASH, > and X11, all of these things are buried in the "Utilities" section, and > there aren't any little programs to play with that jump out at you. > They don't get it, and they never will. They are firmly convinced, as a > company and culture, that "we know what's best for the customer and we > always will". And, to their credit, they have made a ton of money with > that attitude. > > But the programmers going to mac are doing it for one reason - money. > People learn XCode when they get (or are expecting to get) paid to do > it. Mac programmers learn from Linux or Windows. > > > And there it is - the Mac tools are hostile to new users and discourage > them from ever becoming something more. Linux is inviting to > intelligent people, offering a smooth movement up the knowledge ladder > with marginal increases that people take because they want to do some > small little thing - they want fix something, and they can. > > So tell your mom to get a mac, but buy your daughter a Linux machine, > and let her learn and want to learn. > > - Scott - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.10 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkojYvkACgkQARR1QiSWUG4cWACfcn8emSVq58zBKkGN3uZ6Nmqm UvIAn1g3JechzGYBOZOf2T3iMDZ0Mc1k =G/PQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 1 12:02:28 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n51G2S3b029975 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:02:28 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n51G2SKE029966 for slug-track29; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:02:28 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n51G1FSq029884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:02:27 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tm.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tm.nks.net [24.73.112.239]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n51DslTY011810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 09:54:47 -0400 Received: from mail-bw0-f180.google.com (mail-bw0-f180.google.com [209.85.218.180]) by nks-ma-100-tm.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n51Drubh023835 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 09:53:56 -0400 Received: by bwz28 with SMTP id 28so8204561bwz.13 for ; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 06:53:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.239.148.12 with SMTP id d12mr456215hbb.152.1243864435559; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 06:53:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <620c90570905251505g1322efe2re6a1d13b19d11ac6@mail.gmail.com> References: <620c90570905251505g1322efe2re6a1d13b19d11ac6@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 09:53:55 -0400 Message-ID: <2d9aa67f0906010653v58942c87h20ada715c661abb5@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [SLUG] Fun machines From: Dylan Hardison To: slug@nks.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HELO: mail-bw0-f180.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.301, required 6, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_TheProfessionalWay 0.30) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net It seems that debian goes out of its way to detect other distros. So, install many distros. Install debian last. Let debian manage the real /boot partition, and let easy distro have its own, different /boot partition. It's as simple as pants. snippet: title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.26-2-amd64 root (hd0,0) kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.26-2-amd64 root=/dev/mapper/njord-deb_root ro initrd /initrd.img-2.6.26-2-amd64 title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.26-2-amd64 (single-user mode) root (hd0,0) kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.26-2-amd64 root=/dev/mapper/njord-deb_root ro single initrd /initrd.img-2.6.26-2-amd64 ### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST # This is a divider, added to separate the menu items below from the Debian # ones. title Other operating systems: root # This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a non-linux OS # on /dev/hda1 title Microsoft Windows XP Professional root (hd1,0) savedefault makeactive chainloader +1 # This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing # linux installation on /dev/mapper/njord-arch_root. title Arch Linux (on /dev/mapper/njord-arch_root) root (hd0,1) kernel /vmlinuz26 root=/dev/mapper/njord-arch_root ro initrd /kernel26.img savedefault boot # This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing # linux installation on /dev/mapper/njord-arch_root. title Arch Linux Fallback (on /dev/mapper/njord-arch_root) root (hd0,1) kernel /vmlinuz26 root=/dev/mapper/njord-arch_root ro initrd /kernel26-fallback.img savedefault ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 1 12:02:38 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n51G2c3J030090 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:02:38 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n51G2cj1030079 for slug-track29; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:02:38 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n51G1FTE029884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:02:34 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-so.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-so.nks.net [24.73.112.218]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n51BQEik030420 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 07:26:14 -0400 Received: from smtp.mathey.org (smtp.mathey.org [75.127.87.202]) by nks-ma-100-so.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n51BOYiu026178 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 07:24:34 -0400 Received: from [10.1.1.50] (pool-71-180-162-104.tampfl.fios.verizon.net [71.180.162.104]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mathey.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C4698400F for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 07:24:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A23BA46.50909@mathey.org> Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 07:23:50 -0400 From: Chris Mathey User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] X on TV References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HELO: smtp.mathey.org X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=4.901, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_ru 1.65, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_youhavewon 0.25, nks_20060221_01 3.00) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: ssss X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Eben King wrote: > I'm trying to bring up a MythTV system (it's an Athlon 1.5 GHz, 1.5 > MiB RAM), and an important step is getting a pretty fast video card. > So I have an EVGA GeForce 6200 (no fan, passive cooling only), and I'm > trying to use the Nvidia binary-only driver. > > I tried using with the OS-installed driver; that didn't work[1], so I > downloaded NVIDIA-Linux-x86-180.51-pkg1.run and installed that. That > didn't work either, so I decided to look at and optionally clean up > /etc/X11/xorg.conf. I changed some names (and matched the changes, I > think) to make it easier to understand. I simplifed the file by > removing references to the (unused) second monitor. No change. I > found some double-quotes that either weren't there or were in the > wrong place. I fixed them, no change. So I'm asking. Anyone see a > reason this won't work? The file (minus commented lines) is here: > > http://royalty.mine.nu:81/dvr.xorg.conf > > An xorg log from a failed run is here: > > http://royalty.mine.nu:81/dvr.Xorg.0.log.gz > > [1] Throughout, "doesn't work" means "when I start gdm, it runs and > fails a > few times then offers to choose a new video driver". > It doesn't look like you have enough cpu/video card to play HD content (i.e x264 in .mkv container) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 1 17:09:18 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n51L9Isv027832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 17:09:18 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n51L9IZG027829 for slug-track29; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 17:09:18 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n51L9IGc027825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 17:09:18 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sc.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sc.nks.net [24.73.112.206]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n51L9Hfj017969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 17:09:18 -0400 Received: from vms173017pub.verizon.net (vms173017pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.17]) by nks-ma-100-sc.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n51L7e5q002582 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 17:07:40 -0400 Received: from news.home ([96.243.182.3]) by vms173017.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KKK00BDJW08RSD0@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 16:07:21 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 17:07:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Eben King X-X-Sender: eben@pc.home To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] X on TV In-reply-to: <4A23BA46.50909@mathey.org> Message-id: References: <4A23BA46.50909@mathey.org> User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (DEB 882 2007-12-20) X-GetARealMailreader: Eben King wrote: >> I'm trying to bring up a MythTV system (it's an Athlon 1.5 GHz, 1.5 MiB >> RAM), and an important step is getting a pretty fast video card. So I have >> an EVGA GeForce 6200 (no fan, passive cooling only), and I'm trying to use >> the Nvidia binary-only driver. >> >> I tried using with the OS-installed driver; that didn't work[1], so I >> downloaded NVIDIA-Linux-x86-180.51-pkg1.run and installed that. That >> didn't work either, so I decided to look at and optionally clean up >> /etc/X11/xorg.conf. I changed some names (and matched the changes, I >> think) to make it easier to understand. I simplifed the file by removing >> references to the (unused) second monitor. No change. I found some >> double-quotes that either weren't there or were in the wrong place. I >> fixed them, no change. So I'm asking. Anyone see a reason this won't >> work? The file (minus commented lines) is here: >> >> http://royalty.mine.nu:81/dvr.xorg.conf >> >> An xorg log from a failed run is here: >> >> http://royalty.mine.nu:81/dvr.Xorg.0.log.gz >> >> [1] Throughout, "doesn't work" means "when I start gdm, it runs and fails a >> few times then offers to choose a new video driver". >> > It doesn't look like you have enough cpu/video card to play HD content (i.e > x264 in .mkv container) That should be OK. We don't have an HDTV (analog 4:3 CRT), and I don't think we pay for the HD dable channels. I got it to where no error shows up in xorg.conf but it still crashes when starting X (TV flashes): May 22 01:03:17 dvr gdm[3725]: WARNING: Didn't understand `' (expected true or false) May 22 01:03:17 dvr kernel: [19696.782125] agpgart: Found an AGP 2.0 compliant device at 0000:00:00.0. May 22 01:03:17 dvr kernel: [19696.782147] agpgart: Putting AGP V2 device at 0000:00:00.0 into 4x mode May 22 01:03:17 dvr kernel: [19696.782202] agpgart: Putting AGP V2 device at 0000:01:00.0 into 4x mode May 22 01:03:18 dvr kernel: [19697.409739] Xorg[3733]: segfault at fffffffc eip b7f9c58e esp bfbe4148 error 4 -- -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP http://royalty.mine.nu:81 SCORPIO: Get ready for an unexpected trip when you fall screaming from an open window. Work a little harder on improving your low self esteem, you stupid freak. -- Weird Al, _Your Horoscope for Today_ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 1 17:30:08 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n51LU7Li030824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 17:30:07 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n51LU7c4030821 for slug-track29; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 17:30:07 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n51LU7MA030817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 17:30:07 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-d.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-d.nks.net [24.73.112.82]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n51LP9Vm018904 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 17:25:09 -0400 Received: from vms173017pub.verizon.net (vms173017pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.17]) by nks-ma-100-d.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n51LNbKC031352 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 17:23:37 -0400 Received: from arthur.localnet ([71.122.113.201]) by vms173017.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KKK00BA9WRCRXI0@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 16:23:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Brandt To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] X on TV Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 17:23:36 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.10.3 (Linux/2.6.27.21-0.1-default; KDE/4.1.3; x86_64; ; ) References: <4A23BA46.50909@mathey.org> In-reply-to: <4A23BA46.50909@mathey.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Message-id: <200906011723.36374.vzd1s11k@verizon.net> X-HELO: vms173017pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-6.136, required 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71, FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS 2.15, WGL_vzd1s11k_Pat_verizon_Pdo_net -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net I would suggest that you boot a Knoppix live distro and copy the xorg file if it works. You can save it to a thumbdrive or e-mail it to yourself. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 1 22:54:07 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n522s7Xi011925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:54:07 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n522s7jm011922 for slug-track29; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:54:07 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n522s79f011918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:54:07 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-ta.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-ta.nks.net [24.73.112.227]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n522s6f7007791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:54:06 -0400 Received: from mail-gx0-f166.google.com (mail-gx0-f166.google.com [209.85.217.166]) by nks-ma-100-ta.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n522rHZS002917 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:53:18 -0400 Received: by gxk10 with SMTP id 10so13752483gxk.13 for ; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 19:53:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=bHHFwU2v0SDcrKZDrWhTwh/+AkQCKYy83VBQnlnaC9I=; b=TOnrdUZ3F9wpO3yWQ/Ygwd0WjPP+2AdquATxF5wTCUJ0FusXd5W+lskpmZKGnugbL7 CiK/ytQT3ReH2WKIODC2oe2bX+qfTZ9YPnLQlZuOJwL5bnMCkrFSAeAAqjl2Qzal78Lk xyxxcvL1Fs8i41FbQcrTjKXOS+LjlsfBHrZJk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=kZ91xMaL98KRWQ/iVBGz9q2BN2tsahcMrcgn1WXPajN64iXvTbfRifSiC0SmFYr2yM yRP21oTheGLGGIB11KJwO0EHEkfAIW5FFznsLiFUiZWg+r3bZsYED3VJj2wEWa3d3YyX QRXynVQhLtpBvG6GrGb3oN3QHmq1QSutR8msE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.36.77 with SMTP id s13mr1867525ibd.1.1243911197229; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 19:53:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2d9aa67f0906010653v58942c87h20ada715c661abb5@mail.gmail.com> References: <620c90570905251505g1322efe2re6a1d13b19d11ac6@mail.gmail.com> <2d9aa67f0906010653v58942c87h20ada715c661abb5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 21:53:17 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 170676c10a6c5bfb Message-ID: <547124bb0906011953v5633a484i82d61fe93603476d@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [SLUG] Fun machines From: "Dennis Devine, San Antonio" To: slug@nks.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0022152d5d650b037a046b54a57a X-HELO: mail-gx0-f166.google.com X-Mismatched-From: True X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-1.969, required 6, AWL -2.52, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_TheProfessionalWay 0.30, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00, NKS_MISMATCHED_FROM 0.25) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net --0022152d5d650b037a046b54a57a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's good to hear. I have been using Fedora sincever 1 and when I installed ver 10 I had a time of it with the boot partition, font rendering, etc. I went and gave into the Ubuntu (Debian disto) momentum and was back up and running without a hitch. The only times I've had trouble with distros is when I run into the grub and partition issues. Can anyone direct me to a good tutorial on understanding the fine differences of the boot partition? On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Dylan Hardison wrote: > It seems that debian goes out of its way to detect other distros. So, > install many distros. Install debian last. > Let debian manage the real /boot partition, and let easy distro have > its own, different /boot partition. > It's as simple as pants. > > snippet: > > title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.26-2-amd64 > root (hd0,0) > kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.26-2-amd64 root=/dev/mapper/njord-deb_root ro > initrd /initrd.img-2.6.26-2-amd64 > > title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.26-2-amd64 (single-user mode) > root (hd0,0) > kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.26-2-amd64 root=/dev/mapper/njord-deb_root ro > single > initrd /initrd.img-2.6.26-2-amd64 > > ### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST > > # This is a divider, added to separate the menu items below from the Debian > # ones. > title Other operating systems: > root > > > # This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a non-linux OS > # on /dev/hda1 > title Microsoft Windows XP Professional > root (hd1,0) > savedefault > makeactive > chainloader +1 > > > # This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing > # linux installation on /dev/mapper/njord-arch_root. > title Arch Linux (on /dev/mapper/njord-arch_root) > root (hd0,1) > kernel /vmlinuz26 root=/dev/mapper/njord-arch_root ro > initrd /kernel26.img > savedefault > boot > > > # This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing > # linux installation on /dev/mapper/njord-arch_root. > title Arch Linux Fallback (on /dev/mapper/njord-arch_root) > root (hd0,1) > kernel /vmlinuz26 root=/dev/mapper/njord-arch_root ro > initrd /kernel26-fallback.img > savedefault > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > --0022152d5d650b037a046b54a57a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That's good to hear. I have been using Fedora since
ver 1 and when = I installed ver 10 I had a time of
it with the boot partition, fo= nt rendering, etc.
I went and gave into the Ubuntu (Debian disto)=
=A0momentum and was back up and running without
a hitch.=A0<= /div>

The only times I've had trouble with distros i= s
when I run into the grub and partition issues.
Can an= yone direct me to a good tutorial on
understanding the fine differences of the=A0
boot partition?=

On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Dylan Ha= rdison <dylan@ha= rdison.net> wrote:
It seems that debian goes out of its way to= detect other distros. So,
install many distros. Install debian last.
Let debian manage the real /boot partition, and let easy distro have
its own, different /boot partition.
It's as simple as pants.

snippet:

title =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.26-2-amd64
root =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(hd0,0)
kernel =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0/vmlinuz-2.6.26-2-amd64 root=3D/dev/mapper/njord-= deb_root ro
initrd =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0/initrd.img-2.6.26-2-amd64

title =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.26-2-amd64 (single-u= ser mode)
root =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(hd0,0)
kernel =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0/vmlinuz-2.6.26-2-amd64 root=3D/dev/mapper/njord-= deb_root ro single
initrd =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0/initrd.img-2.6.26-2-amd64

### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST

# This is a divider, added to separate the menu items below from the Debian=
# ones.
title =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Other operating systems:
root


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a non-linux OS=
# on /dev/hda1
title =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Microsoft Windows XP Professional
root =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(hd1,0)
savedefault
makeactive
chainloader =A0 =A0 +1


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing # linux installation on /dev/mapper/njord-arch_root.
title =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Arch Linux (on /dev/mapper/njord-arch_root)
root =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(hd0,1)
kernel =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0/vmlinuz26 root=3D/dev/mapper/njord-arch_root ro<= br> initrd =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0/kernel26.img
savedefault
boot


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing # linux installation on /dev/mapper/njord-arch_root.
title =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Arch Linux Fallback (on /dev/mapper/njord-arch_ro= ot)
root =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(hd0,1)
kernel =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0/vmlinuz26 root=3D/dev/mapper/njord-arch_root ro<= br> initrd =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0/kernel26-fallback.img
savedefault
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked
Knowledge Systems (NKS). =A0Views and opinions expressed in messages
posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the
official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees.

--0022152d5d650b037a046b54a57a-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 2 08:30:08 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n52CU8XE029677 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2009 08:30:08 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n52CU8KA029674 for slug-track29; Tue, 2 Jun 2009 08:30:08 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n52CU7wo029670 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2009 08:30:07 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sm.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sm.nks.net [24.73.112.216]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n52CMILW002406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2009 08:22:18 -0400 Received: from qw-out-2122.google.com (qw-out-2122.google.com [74.125.92.27]) by nks-ma-100-sm.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n52CLKe7024038 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2009 08:21:21 -0400 Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 5so4611395qwd.1 for ; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 05:21:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=MaskasMUzitB0OTQHLTlnhv41vJH6qXQ/nzbQ52cv6M=; b=cZR/l/4A0A9OdMuDYQJ/mituMc1DbnxqzfJM7vekQhMRyLuA7apPflWwFWmpyFhnQx nRtC8DPuDPU3CWNXIqZwXQf3pBBN2xYMAgptoZIxvs9eV4Zq+RRVIXfYcUr17v9puZ3n Nb/aPQF8OyxXUQJQdBA0ZqRy+mPidLaPqmdW8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=huV/RFuLNjX04WxmSdhlDoEm6PtwLlnc3skG6Qsu6gIXpc2B6EKiijslR0sd7kfycm aAQqFt2KPy8cP5hSkwxndW8sL6kPCJWR3W+U90dVVN5tVUV6SF2BgVRmhS0OQ0gYuVRa GN/rJNpKSDWC+zeGQcTxIzLxcSN6lb/uNEqq4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.80.21 with SMTP id r21mr1991271qck.80.1243945280076; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 05:21:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <547124bb0906011953v5633a484i82d61fe93603476d@mail.gmail.com> References: <620c90570905251505g1322efe2re6a1d13b19d11ac6@mail.gmail.com> <2d9aa67f0906010653v58942c87h20ada715c661abb5@mail.gmail.com> <547124bb0906011953v5633a484i82d61fe93603476d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 08:21:20 -0400 Message-ID: <125d27dd0906020521v41c6ba44s1466d9e14aba02b6@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [SLUG] Fun machines From: Daniel Jarboe To: slug@nks.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636163eb589fce4046b5c94f9 X-HELO: qw-out-2122.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.002, required 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_50 0.00, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net --001636163eb589fce4046b5c94f9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The only times I've had trouble with distros is > when I run into the grub and partition issues. > Can anyone direct me to a good tutorial on > understanding the fine differences of the > boot partition? http://users.bigpond.net.au/hermanzone/p15.htm is a lot better read than the grub manual. It goes into a fair amount of detail, but you can pick and choose from an organized list of topics. It also links to other references. ~ Daniel --001636163eb589fce4046b5c94f9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> The only times I've had trouble with distros is
>= ; when I run into the grub and partition issues.
> Can anyone = direct me to a good tutorial on
> understanding the fine differences of the=A0
> boot parti= tion?

htt= p://users.bigpond.net.au/hermanzone/p15.htm is a lot better read than t= he grub manual.=A0 It goes into a fair amount of detail, but you can pick a= nd choose from an organized list of topics.=A0 It also links to other refer= ences.

~ Daniel
--001636163eb589fce4046b5c94f9-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 2 15:53:12 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n52JrCvh027693 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2009 15:53:12 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n52JrCQx027690 for slug-track29; Tue, 2 Jun 2009 15:53:12 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n52JrBii027686 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2009 15:53:12 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tj.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tj.nks.net [24.73.112.236]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n52JrBbl022320 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2009 15:53:11 -0400 Received: from vms173003pub.verizon.net (vms173003pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.3]) by nks-ma-100-tj.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n52Jqa7l016824 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2009 15:52:36 -0400 Received: from news.home ([96.243.182.3]) by vms173003.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KKM00MZBN7F3VW2@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Tue, 02 Jun 2009 14:52:32 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 15:52:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Eben King X-X-Sender: eben@pc.home To: SLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [SLUG] X on TV In-reply-to: Message-id: References: User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (DEB 882 2007-12-20) X-GetARealMailreader: I'm trying to bring up a MythTV system (it's an Athlon 1.5 GHz, 1.5 MiB RAM), > and an important step is getting a pretty fast video card. So I have an EVGA > GeForce 6200 (no fan, passive cooling only), and I'm trying to use the Nvidia > binary-only driver. > > I tried using with the OS-installed driver; that didn't work[1], so I > downloaded NVIDIA-Linux-x86-180.51-pkg1.run and installed that. That didn't > work either, so I decided to look at and optionally clean up > /etc/X11/xorg.conf. I changed some names (and matched the changes, I think) > to make it easier to understand. I simplifed the file by removing references > to the (unused) second monitor. No change. I found some double-quotes that > either weren't there or were in the wrong place. I fixed them, no change. > So I'm asking. Anyone see a reason this won't work? The file (minus > commented lines) is here: > > http://royalty.mine.nu:81/dvr.xorg.conf > > An xorg log from a failed run is here: > > http://royalty.mine.nu:81/dvr.Xorg.0.log.gz > > [1] Throughout, "doesn't work" means "when I start gdm, it runs and fails a > few times then offers to choose a new video driver". Got it to work (sorta). I installed "envy" (the GTK interface) and used it to uninstall and reinstall the Nvidia driver. But, the image is now greyscale. Anyone know a fix? Sorta-kinda-unrelated, anyone know how to modify the menu bar/window title bar/task bar height? I want to use 800x600, but most dialogs are a smidge too big to fit. Here's my conf (minus commented-out lines): Section "Screen" Device "video port"# match 1 Identifier "TV4x3"# match 3 Monitor "TV"# match 2 SubSection "Display" Depth 24 Modes "800x600_60" "640x480_60" # modes are defined in 'Section "Monitor"' or default; unusable @ 640x480, need 800x600 EndSubSection Option "AddARGBGLXVisuals" "True" Defaultdepth 24 EndSection Section "Device" Screen 0 Identifier "video port"# match 1 Driver "nvidia" Vendorname "EVGA/NVidia"# no match forced Boardname "Geforce6200"# no match forced # options go either here or in 'section "screen"' Option "TVOutFormat" "AUTOSELECT" # to which I've attached an SVideo -> Composite adapter Option "TVStandard" "NTSC-M"# default = NTSC-M Option "ConnectedMonitor" "TV" Option "NoLogo" "true" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Generic Keyboard" Driver "kbd" Option "XkbRules" "xorg" Option "XkbModel" "pc105" Option "XkbLayout" "us" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Configured Mouse" Driver "mouse" EndSection Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "Default Layout" screen 0 "TV4x3" 0 0 # match 3 Inputdevice "Generic Keyboard" "CoreKeyboard" Inputdevice "Configured Mouse" "CorePointer" EndSection Section "Module" Load "v4l" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "TV"# match 2 Vendorname "Sony"# no match forced Modelname "Trinitron something"# no match forced Horizsync 30.0 - 50.0 Vertrefresh 60.0 EndSection Section "ServerFlags" Option "allowmouseopenfail" EndSection Section "DRI" Mode 0666 EndSection Section "Extensions" Option "Composite" "Enable" EndSection -- -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81 Scientist A: A matterbaby is a very unstable particle. Scientist B: What's a matterbaby? Scientist A: I'm doing fine honey, how you doing? -- mrshowrules on Fark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 3 16:34:20 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n53KYJWG010608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:34:19 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n53KYJro010605 for slug-track29; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:34:19 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n53KYJAg010590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:34:19 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tk.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tk.nks.net [24.73.112.237]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n53KYIWi032575 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:34:19 -0400 Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com (hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com [71.74.56.124]) by nks-ma-100-tk.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n53KVWie027489 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:31:32 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.103] (really [97.96.248.194]) by hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090603203131683.THWH2527@hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com> for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:31:31 +0000 From: Richard Smoot To: slug@nks.net Subject: [SLUG] Bios Compaq Deskpro 4000 Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:42:31 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200906031642.32407.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> X-HELO: hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-9.949, required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL 0.05, BAYES_50 0.00, WGL_rsmoot_Pat_tampabay_Pdo_rr_Pdo_com -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net This computer has Win 98 SE installed on a 2gb drive. It is a Pentium II with 128M ram. I have gotten the live disk Simply Mepis to run on it though slowly because the ram is so small. This is for a friend short on money. I found a small 10GB WD drive for it. I want to put Simply Mepis on the new drive. The problem is that I can not access the bios. I did find the Manual for it on HP's website. You press F10 on Startup and the Compaq Utilities in the hidden Diagnostics Partition are supposed to start up and let you set the Bios. I press F10 at the appropriate time and nothing happens. The are supposed to be images of the 2 floppies to reinstall the Compaq Utilities on the Compaq website. That doesn't work. HP does not appear to be supplying those images. Does anyone have a copy or know where I can get a copy of those floppies? Richard Smoot ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 3 16:45:22 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n53KjMI0012169 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:45:22 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n53KjME3012166 for slug-track29; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:45:22 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n53KjLjn012162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:45:21 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sd.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sd.nks.net [24.73.112.207]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n53KjLhK000841 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:45:21 -0400 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.245]) by nks-ma-100-sd.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n53KiXlZ019790 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:44:33 -0400 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c3so169170ana.4 for ; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 13:44:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=LgrwJSaiYZiBcL9s63c3URXYCJNlPhW7rtAeV7Kv9kc=; b=nms+AzXpsUbrlDtfXL9Lsp5YClfH/at2148cjkWcwDB6HXLr8h5X6B9wu+3noP5nNT geMOGnPVSqXkZcb1TU4amVhohTj/uh/snsJbAjjc/ejhrF457ljrKqnpUJFMkhExLcVj cS4n9uFy6VwoMBy/3nRD1kXZP+zGuLabi8CpU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=WZhEIWkeaXDrW/yOKKreAbZxrxtXI5FgmH3EUI1PQqooCcxVMaO3jDGF2Yniqy4KIP qdCVBNja/huylnj/6QYnqN7hfCl8KlhZJASb4dZkKIXqnPVkVantrf6N7DdIqcAA/9k2 /f/AjaNcY25C8zEar3Hn0Of63KjoW2FmzPN1c= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.126.15 with SMTP id y15mr1796399anc.14.1244061872711; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 13:44:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <200906031642.32407.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:44:31 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [SLUG] Bios Compaq Deskpro 4000 From: chris lee To: slug@nks.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-HELO: an-out-0708.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-4.754, required 6, AWL -6.00, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAD_STRING_gmail_PUNCdot_com 0.65, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_winmoneycom 0.50) X-Spam-Status: No Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by slug-list-00.nks.net id n53KjLjm012163 Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net bit more searching F1 F2 F3 F10 esc del ctrl+alt+esc ctrl+alt+s ctrl+alt+ins ctrl+alt+del On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 16:41, chris lee wrote: > should be either F10 or ctrl > > i had a deskpro 2000, 133mhz, 300 meg HDD > > it was a hardware firewall for a long time before it finally conked out. > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 16:42, Richard Smoot wrote: >> This computer has Win 98 SE installed on a 2gb drive. It is a Pentium II with >> 128M ram. I have gotten the live disk Simply Mepis to run on it though slowly >> because the ram is so small. >> This is for a friend short on money. >> I found a small 10GB WD drive for it. I want to put Simply Mepis on the new >> drive. The problem is that I can not access the bios. >> I did find the Manual for it on HP's website. >> You press F10 on Startup and the Compaq Utilities in the hidden Diagnostics >> Partition are supposed to start up and let you set the Bios. >> I press F10 at the appropriate time and nothing happens. >> The are supposed to be images of the 2 floppies to reinstall the Compaq >> Utilities on the Compaq website. That doesn't work. HP does not appear >> to be supplying those images. >> >> Does anyone have a copy or know where I can get a copy of  those floppies? >> >>                            Richard Smoot >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked >> Knowledge Systems (NKS).  Views and opinions expressed in messages >> posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the >> official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 3 17:12:29 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n53LCTrG016000 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 17:12:29 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n53LCTAO015997 for slug-track29; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 17:12:29 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n53LCTjH015982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 17:12:29 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tb.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tb.nks.net [24.73.112.228]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n53LCSJ9002737 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 17:12:28 -0400 Received: from smtp.mathey.org (smtp.mathey.org [75.127.87.202]) by nks-ma-100-tb.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n53KsZbD001550 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:54:35 -0400 Received: from [10.1.1.50] (pool-71-180-162-104.tampfl.fios.verizon.net [71.180.162.104]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mathey.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BE558400F for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:54:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A26E2D7.7090100@mathey.org> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 16:53:43 -0400 From: Chris Mathey User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Bios Compaq Deskpro 4000 References: <200906031642.32407.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HELO: smtp.mathey.org X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.251, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAD_STRING_gmail_PUNCdot_com 0.65, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_winmoneycom 0.50) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net up up down down left right left right B A start That's all I remember form that long ago. chris lee wrote: > bit more searching > > F1 > F2 > F3 > F10 > esc > del > ctrl+alt+esc > ctrl+alt+s > ctrl+alt+ins > ctrl+alt+del > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 16:41, chris lee wrote: > >> should be either F10 or ctrl >> >> i had a deskpro 2000, 133mhz, 300 meg HDD >> >> it was a hardware firewall for a long time before it finally conked out. >> >> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 16:42, Richard Smoot wrote: >> >>> This computer has Win 98 SE installed on a 2gb drive. It is a Pentium II with >>> 128M ram. I have gotten the live disk Simply Mepis to run on it though slowly >>> because the ram is so small. >>> This is for a friend short on money. >>> I found a small 10GB WD drive for it. I want to put Simply Mepis on the new >>> drive. The problem is that I can not access the bios. >>> I did find the Manual for it on HP's website. >>> You press F10 on Startup and the Compaq Utilities in the hidden Diagnostics >>> Partition are supposed to start up and let you set the Bios. >>> I press F10 at the appropriate time and nothing happens. >>> The are supposed to be images of the 2 floppies to reinstall the Compaq >>> Utilities on the Compaq website. That doesn't work. HP does not appear >>> to be supplying those images. >>> >>> Does anyone have a copy or know where I can get a copy of those floppies? >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 3 17:30:47 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n53LUl51018629 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 17:30:47 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n53LUlqZ018626 for slug-track29; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 17:30:47 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n53LUleK018622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 17:30:47 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sb.nks.net [24.73.112.205]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n53LUkQr003716 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 17:30:47 -0400 Received: from yw-out-2324.google.com (yw-out-2324.google.com [74.125.46.28]) by nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n53KfqIV007932 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:41:52 -0400 Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 3so198950ywj.49 for ; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 13:41:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=vJyoZmw9V+HEkP3m4Yixds6tyZ9SUCaWtBlARirGyds=; b=j8hF68ZADkowzs/qomsmqIvhiAwtqhp7q+TfMyhoqtxxFGkDC9eb9NLL3EL4CH/8w1 ZIC1SFmrXqYtNZLNmFKG3yxsikiqMnG6jrmpmBCh43eoKbmkViDbWuY24gMcinqKCNlE ytB34P9CIzk6r+pFwsNdTLRNkQmfYBIWDuRbk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=kYG2viZpmjTuMmAGsHsd+o9W7JMCHR55t1GkWoM5yS2323lDXyAsos7EsEQfUICUuA CfGVbyuca/u8yAU5DD0ubZ0kMv4OxWIPJrwIciRxp9zzDWFWyGKfA1qxoEFj0qg+nuqC jKpDq+iy16cp3N6S2JJf5vqvJ+9Ik1EcFIuEU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.32.13 with SMTP id f13mr1777913anf.36.1244061711952; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 13:41:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200906031642.32407.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> References: <200906031642.32407.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:41:50 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [SLUG] Bios Compaq Deskpro 4000 From: chris lee To: slug@nks.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-HELO: yw-out-2324.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.568, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_20 -0.74, BP_winmoneycom 0.50, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by slug-list-00.nks.net id n53LUleJ018623 Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net should be either F10 or ctrl i had a deskpro 2000, 133mhz, 300 meg HDD it was a hardware firewall for a long time before it finally conked out. On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 16:42, Richard Smoot wrote: > This computer has Win 98 SE installed on a 2gb drive. It is a Pentium II with > 128M ram. I have gotten the live disk Simply Mepis to run on it though slowly > because the ram is so small. > This is for a friend short on money. > I found a small 10GB WD drive for it. I want to put Simply Mepis on the new > drive. The problem is that I can not access the bios. > I did find the Manual for it on HP's website. > You press F10 on Startup and the Compaq Utilities in the hidden Diagnostics > Partition are supposed to start up and let you set the Bios. > I press F10 at the appropriate time and nothing happens. > The are supposed to be images of the 2 floppies to reinstall the Compaq > Utilities on the Compaq website. That doesn't work. HP does not appear > to be supplying those images. > > Does anyone have a copy or know where I can get a copy of  those floppies? > >                            Richard Smoot > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS).  Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 3 20:00:15 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5400E18007281 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:00:14 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5400Egi007277 for slug-track29; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:00:14 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5400AXc007256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:00:11 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tj.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tj.nks.net [24.73.112.236]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n53No9wa013018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 19:50:09 -0400 Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com (hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com [71.74.56.125]) by nks-ma-100-tj.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n53Nnenx032667 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 19:49:40 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.103] (really [97.96.248.194]) by hrndva-omta03.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090603234940156.PZYA6499@hrndva-omta03.mail.rr.com> for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 23:49:40 +0000 From: Richard Smoot To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Bios Compaq Deskpro 4000 Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:00:42 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <200906031642.32407.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200906032000.43289.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> X-HELO: hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-9.399, required 6, autolearn=not spam, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_winmoneycom 0.50, WGL_rsmoot_Pat_tampabay_Pdo_rr_Pdo_com -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by slug-list-00.nks.net id n5400CXZ007269 Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net On Wednesday 03 June 2009 16:41, chris lee wrote: > should be either F10 or ctrl > > i had a deskpro 2000, 133mhz, 300 meg HDD > > it was a hardware firewall for a long time before it finally conked out. > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 16:42, Richard Smoot wrote: > > This computer has Win 98 SE installed on a 2gb drive. It is a Pentium II > > with 128M ram. I have gotten the live disk Simply Mepis to run on it > > though slowly because the ram is so small. > > This is for a friend short on money. > > I found a small 10GB WD drive for it. I want to put Simply Mepis on the > > new drive. The problem is that I can not access the bios. > > I did find the Manual for it on HP's website. > > You press F10 on Startup and the Compaq Utilities in the hidden > > Diagnostics Partition are supposed to start up and let you set the Bios. > > I press F10 at the appropriate time and nothing happens. > > The are supposed to be images of the 2 floppies to reinstall the Compaq > > Utilities on the Compaq website. That doesn't work. HP does not appear > > to be supplying those images. > > > > Does anyone have a copy or know where I can get a copy of  those > > floppies? > > > >                            Richard Smoot > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > > Knowledge Systems (NKS).  Views and opinions expressed in messages > > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 3 20:13:25 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n540DPSf009110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:13:25 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n540DPgb009107 for slug-track29; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:13:25 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n540DOLU009103 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:13:24 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-c.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-c.nks.net [24.73.112.81]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n540DO8i014711 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:13:24 -0400 Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com (hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com [71.74.56.123]) by nks-ma-100-c.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n540AJf5013792 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:10:19 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.103] (really [97.96.248.194]) by hrndva-omta03.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090604001018769.QUDW6499@hrndva-omta03.mail.rr.com> for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 00:10:18 +0000 From: Richard Smoot To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Bios Compaq Deskpro 4000 Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:21:21 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <200906031642.32407.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200906032021.22013.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> X-HELO: hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-9.69, required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL 0.31, BAYES_50 0.00, WGL_rsmoot_Pat_tampabay_Pdo_rr_Pdo_com -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net On Wednesday 03 June 2009 16:44, chris lee wrote: > bit more searching > > F1 > F2 > F3 > F10 > esc > del > ctrl+alt+esc > ctrl+alt+s > ctrl+alt+ins > ctrl+alt+del F10 is the way to access the Bios on this machine. The trouble is the software F10 is supposed invoke is not on the hard drive. I think this machine came w Win95 and when Win98SE was installed it wiped the hidden Compaq Diagnostics partition. No problem until I tried to change the hardware. I changed the Cd drive from CS to M and it became inoperative. I made the 10GB drive master when I put it on the second Ide plug. It doesn't work. You can not access the actual bios chip without the Compaq Utilities. Has anybody been able to pull the original drive - out put a bigger drive in and install Linux in any of the Compaqs with this lame bios system? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 3 20:19:11 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n540JBtH009982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:19:11 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n540JB0J009979 for slug-track29; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:19:11 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n540JBGo009975 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:19:11 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-td.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-td.nks.net [24.73.112.230]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n540JACO015037 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:19:11 -0400 Received: from vms173019pub.verizon.net (vms173019pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.19]) by nks-ma-100-td.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n540IfV4015715 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:18:42 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173019.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KKO004SUU6U7UZ1@vms173019.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 19:18:31 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A2712D4.2000808@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 20:18:28 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Bios Compaq Deskpro 4000 References: <200906031642.32407.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> <200906032000.43289.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> In-reply-to: <200906032000.43289.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173019pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-2.01, required 6, AWL -3.82, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Richard Smoot wrote: >>> Does anyone have a copy or know where I can get a copy of those >>> floppies? Hi Richard! Try this: http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/ProductList.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&taskId=135&prodTypeId=12454&prodSeriesId=96258 on the other hand http://tinyurl.com/rbgubd -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 3 20:26:59 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n540Qx33011075 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:26:59 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n540QxlX011072 for slug-track29; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:26:59 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n540QwoB011068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:26:58 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tg.nks.net [24.73.112.233]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n540Qw9v015417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:26:58 -0400 Received: from vms173009pub.verizon.net (vms173009pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.9]) by nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n540QLH6009487 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:26:21 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173009.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KKO000MFUGZSTZ6@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 19:24:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A271442.1060404@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 20:24:34 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Bios Compaq Deskpro 4000 References: <200906031642.32407.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> <200906032000.43289.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> In-reply-to: <200906032000.43289.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173009pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-4.649, required 6, AWL -4.75, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net > Richard Smoot wrote: > >>>> Does anyone have a copy or know where I can get a copy of those >>>> floppies? > > Hi Richard! > > Try this: > > http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/ProductList.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&taskId=135&prodTypeId=12454&prodSeriesId=96258 > > on the other hand > > http://tinyurl.com/rbgubd Now, wait a minute. Your subjeck line says 4000, your email says 2000. If it is 2000 try this: http://www.driverrepairs.com/compaq.php -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 3 20:33:06 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n540X5fT011932 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:33:05 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n540X5S5011929 for slug-track29; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:33:05 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n540X4EV011925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:33:05 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-so.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-so.nks.net [24.73.112.218]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n540X4Ss015718 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:33:04 -0400 Received: from vms173017pub.verizon.net (vms173017pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.17]) by nks-ma-100-so.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n540WAUe001474 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:32:11 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173017.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KKO00C1YURWON53@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 19:31:09 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A2715CB.6040104@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 20:31:07 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Bios Compaq Deskpro 4000 References: <200906031642.32407.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> <200906032021.22013.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> In-reply-to: <200906032021.22013.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173017pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-1.73, required 6, AWL -3.54, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Richard Smoot wrote: > On Wednesday 03 June 2009 16:44, chris lee wrote: >> bit more searching >> >> F1 >> F2 >> F3 >> F10 >> esc >> del >> ctrl+alt+esc >> ctrl+alt+s >> ctrl+alt+ins >> ctrl+alt+del > F10 is the way to access the Bios on this machine. > The trouble is the software F10 is supposed invoke is not on the hard drive. > I think this machine came w Win95 and when Win98SE was installed it wiped > the hidden Compaq Diagnostics partition. > No problem until I tried to change the hardware. I changed the Cd drive from > CS to M and it became inoperative. I made the 10GB drive master when I put > it on the second Ide plug. It doesn't work. > You can not access the actual bios chip without the Compaq Utilities. > Has anybody been able to pull the original drive - out put a bigger drive in > and install Linux in any of the Compaqs with this lame bios system? Hi Richard! If you have the floppies there is no problem installing a bigger hard drive. I never used Linux on it, however. I had a 6 GB drive on a 486 DX 50 notebook with 32 meg of ram. However, the OS was Window$ 95. It was really nice. After a while the adware took over, though. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 3 20:34:22 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n540YM5x012127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:34:22 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n540YM73012124 for slug-track29; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:34:22 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n540YMcM012120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:34:22 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sb.nks.net [24.73.112.205]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n540YLjX015786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:34:21 -0400 Received: from vms173009pub.verizon.net (vms173009pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.9]) by nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n540WpWq012460 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:32:51 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173009.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KKO00DUHUTM0V6G@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Wed, 03 Jun 2009 19:32:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A271609.7000902@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 20:32:09 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Bios Compaq Deskpro 4000 References: <200906031642.32407.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> <200906032000.43289.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> <4A271442.1060404@verizon.net> In-reply-to: <4A271442.1060404@verizon.net> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173009pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.364, required 6, AWL -1.45, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Pete Theisen wrote: >> Richard Smoot wrote: >> >>>>> Does anyone have a copy or know where I can get a copy of those >>>>> floppies? >> >> Hi Richard! >> >> Try this: >> >> http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/ProductList.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&taskId=135&prodTypeId=12454&prodSeriesId=96258 >> >> >> on the other hand >> >> http://tinyurl.com/rbgubd > > Now, wait a minute. Your subjeck line says 4000, your email says 2000. > If it is 2000 try this: > > http://www.driverrepairs.com/compaq.php Make that subject, $8 spell checker . . . -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 4 00:15:20 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n544FJHl010755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 00:15:19 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n544FJLe010752 for slug-track29; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 00:15:19 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n544FJI9010748 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 00:15:19 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tg.nks.net [24.73.112.233]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n544FJDR002067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 00:15:19 -0400 Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com (hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com [71.74.56.124]) by nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n544EaCR028181 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 00:14:36 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.103] (really [97.96.248.194]) by hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090604041435539.CZKC10427@hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com> for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 04:14:35 +0000 From: Richard Smoot To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Bios Compaq Deskpro 4000 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 01:25:41 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <200906031642.32407.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> <4A271442.1060404@verizon.net> <4A271609.7000902@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <4A271609.7000902@verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200906040125.41924.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> X-HELO: hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-6.699, required 6, autolearn=not spam, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, NO_DNS_FOR_FROM 3.20, WGL_rsmoot_Pat_tampabay_Pdo_rr_Pdo_com -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net On Wednesday 03 June 2009 20:32, Pete Theisen wrote: > Pete Theisen wrote: > >> Richard Smoot wrote: > >>>>> Does anyone have a copy or know where I can get a copy of those > >>>>> floppies? > >> > >> Hi Richard! > >> > >> Try this: > >> > >> http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/ProductList.jsp?lang=en > >>&cc=us&taskId=135&prodTypeId=12454&prodSeriesId=96258 This link did work. I got the executable file-booted up my NT4.0-ran it in windows and made the three floppies. Thank you all. I will get by his place tomorrow and set up the new drive and put Simply Mepis on his computer. Richard Smoot ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 4 07:47:25 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n54BlOvF009877 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 07:47:25 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n54BlOGD009874 for slug-track29; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 07:47:24 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n54BlOgd009870 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 07:47:24 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-d.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-d.nks.net [24.73.112.82]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n54BlOah016355 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 07:47:24 -0400 Received: from vms173007pub.verizon.net (vms173007pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.7]) by nks-ma-100-d.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n54BhF4M021523 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 07:43:15 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173007.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KKP0048YPTU3ND4@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Thu, 04 Jun 2009 06:41:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A27B300.8090607@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 07:41:52 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Bios Compaq Deskpro 4000 References: <200906031642.32407.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> <4A271442.1060404@verizon.net> <4A271609.7000902@verizon.net> <200906040125.41924.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> In-reply-to: <200906040125.41924.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173007pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-1.394, required 6, AWL -3.20, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Richard Smoot wrote: > On Wednesday 03 June 2009 20:32, Pete Theisen wrote: >> Pete Theisen wrote: >>>> Richard Smoot wrote: >>>>>>> Does anyone have a copy or know where I can get a copy of those >>>>>>> floppies? >>>> Hi Richard! >>>> >>>> Try this: >>>> >>>> http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/ProductList.jsp?lang=en >>>> &cc=us&taskId=135&prodTypeId=12454&prodSeriesId=96258 > > This link did work. I got the executable file-booted up my NT4.0-ran it in > windows and made the three floppies. > Thank you all. > I will get by his place tomorrow and set up the new drive and put Simply Mepis > on his computer. Hi Richard, So was it a 4000 or 2000? -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 4 12:51:47 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n54GplbI020523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 12:51:47 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n54GplJH020520 for slug-track29; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 12:51:47 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n54GplLR020516 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 12:51:47 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-so.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-so.nks.net [24.73.112.218]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n54Gpkeq014032 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 12:51:47 -0400 Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com (hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com [71.74.56.125]) by nks-ma-100-so.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n54GhD3l026974 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 12:43:14 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.103] (really [97.96.248.194]) by hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090604164313136.VFOS23263@hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com> for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 16:43:13 +0000 From: Richard Smoot To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Bios Compaq Deskpro 4000 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 13:54:27 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <200906031642.32407.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> <200906040125.41924.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> <4A27B300.8090607@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <4A27B300.8090607@verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200906041354.28756.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> X-HELO: hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-9.115, required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL 0.78, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, WGL_rsmoot_Pat_tampabay_Pdo_rr_Pdo_com -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net On Thursday 04 June 2009 07:41, Pete Theisen wrote: > Richard Smoot wrote: > > On Wednesday 03 June 2009 20:32, Pete Theisen wrote: > >> Pete Theisen wrote: > >>>> Richard Smoot wrote: > >>>>>>> Does anyone have a copy or know where I can get a copy of those > >>>>>>> floppies? > >>>> > >>>> Hi Richard! > >>>> > >>>> Try this: > >>>> > >>>> http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/ProductList.jsp?lang= > >>>>en &cc=us&taskId=135&prodTypeId=12454&prodSeriesId=96258 > > > > This link did work. I got the executable file-booted up my NT4.0-ran it > > in windows and made the three floppies. > > Thank you all. > > I will get by his place tomorrow and set up the new drive and put Simply > > Mepis on his computer. > > Hi Richard, > > So was it a 4000 or 2000? It was a 4000. The compaq utilities are also good for the 2000. I think they are good for all the Compaqs with this lame bios system. I am going to put Simply Mepis in his computer because I am used to how it works. and can help him with problems he might have. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 4 13:52:04 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n54Hq43x029084 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 13:52:04 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n54Hq4IW029081 for slug-track29; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 13:52:04 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n54Hq36p029077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 13:52:03 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sc.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sc.nks.net [24.73.112.206]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n54HlgoJ018474 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 13:47:43 -0400 Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com (hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com [71.74.56.122]) by nks-ma-100-sc.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n54HZALb031930 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 13:35:10 -0400 Received: from glaive ([97.106.103.29]) by hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090604173508922.FLDG2527@hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com> for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 17:35:08 +0000 Received: from leebc by glaive with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1MCGqK-0003FF-F1 for slug@nks.net; Thu, 04 Jun 2009 13:35:08 -0400 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 13:35:08 -0400 From: blee2@tampabay.rr.com To: slug@nks.net Subject: free memory (WAS: Re: [SLUG] Bios Compaq Deskpro 4000) Message-ID: <20090604173508.GX25474@glaive.dhs.org> References: <200906031642.32407.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> <200906040125.41924.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> <4A27B300.8090607@verizon.net> <200906041354.28756.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200906041354.28756.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-HELO: hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-Mismatched-From: True X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.212, required 6, BAYES_50 0.00, NKS_MISMATCHED_FROM 0.25, NO_REAL_NAME 0.96) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Thus Richard Smoot hast written on Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 04:42:31PM -0400, and, according to prophecy, it shall come to pass that: > This computer has Win 98 SE installed on a 2gb drive. It is a Pentium II with > 128M ram. I have gotten the live disk Simply Mepis to run on it though slowly > because the ram is so small. I've got a whole bunch of older memory chips that I've scavenged over the years. I think most are 128MB DIMMs, but I've got some stuff that's even older. Sorry, I just don't know about memory specifics. Free to a good home. I'm in North St. Pete. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 4 16:40:12 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n54KeCk6020567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 16:40:12 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n54KeCIO020564 for slug-track29; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 16:40:12 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n54KeCZZ020560 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 16:40:12 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-a.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-a.nks.net [24.73.112.79]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n54KcJI8001174 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 16:38:19 -0400 Received: from vms173017pub.verizon.net (vms173017pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.17]) by nks-ma-100-a.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n54KYgwY012585 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 16:34:43 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173017.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KKQ00LATEDT5U42@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Thu, 04 Jun 2009 15:32:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A282F4F.1080703@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:32:15 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Bios Compaq Deskpro 4000 References: <200906031642.32407.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> <200906040125.41924.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> <4A27B300.8090607@verizon.net> <200906041354.28756.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> In-reply-to: <200906041354.28756.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173017pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.655, required 6, AWL -1.15, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Richard Smoot wrote: >>>>>>>>> Does anyone have a copy or know where I can get a copy of those >>>>>>>>> floppies? >>>>>> http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/ProductList.jsp?lang= >>>>>> en &cc=us&taskId=135&prodTypeId=12454&prodSeriesId=96258 >>> This link did work. I got the executable file-booted up my NT4.0-ran it >>> in windows and made the three floppies. >>> Thank you all. >>> I will get by his place tomorrow and set up the new drive and put Simply >>> Mepis on his computer. >> Hi Richard, >> >> So was it a 4000 or 2000? > > It was a 4000. The compaq utilities are also good for the 2000. I think they > are good for all the Compaqs with this lame bios system. > I am going to put Simply Mepis in his computer because I am used to how it > works. and can help him with problems he might have. Hi Richard, Good to know that the Compaq utility files work on a range of Compaqs. Never know when we may need to resurrect one considering what is happening nowadays. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 4 23:51:39 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n553pdAs016406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 23:51:39 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n553pdgb016403 for slug-track29; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 23:51:39 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n553pc0a016399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 23:51:39 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tj.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tj.nks.net [24.73.112.236]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n553pcTb024639 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 23:51:38 -0400 Received: from yw-out-2324.google.com (yw-out-2324.google.com [74.125.46.29]) by nks-ma-100-tj.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n553p94p013898 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2009 23:51:10 -0400 Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 3so1225420ywj.49 for ; Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:51:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=sYr5honst+PrNsxC79gfmhS+G/+kyPLfkiMFTUZNdnc=; b=DyEOxCR7bclK/ZdbPHpO5T3SXGusQF8J2LMd+uP9IO901RWdvS5azeOvYMHUwsCqeT ezTGAS3JobMMxkkGswzApvjxiqOOPe3ZPF4rTQC0jUUN4ANIo2b2HM42iXAKc0gE6ZSF P96Vl4KqZxL1xC7LuUj4x/TkDX+f3aqQ3ESBE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=Jwhynwp7+zApBs3MAav7gd8V8Ca1VbTjLtqaIb0fVjNzT1oSpBa2vwexONHDreElEA VnN+Oc5Eoh7XFCryjMgnsgNKzDQ5JpoeK3fNE+yVJyu7LrkG7wsP0EkRaqRnOj65C0jH YuEO/1EvwEyLdxWIhsvT6dAZcytCkUVXfIrqE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.36.198 with SMTP id u6mr792557ibd.29.1244173868405; Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:51:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200906031642.32407.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> References: <200906031642.32407.rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 22:51:08 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 7e6d9497fb8def76 Message-ID: <547124bb0906042051t36f6737fm3a941f643648f24c@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [SLUG] Bios Compaq Deskpro 4000 From: "Dennis Devine, San Antonio" To: slug@nks.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0021cc022382771729046b91cdd2 X-HELO: yw-out-2324.google.com X-Mismatched-From: True X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-1.748, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_00 -2.60, BP_winmoneycom 0.50, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00, NKS_MISMATCHED_FROM 0.25) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net --0021cc022382771729046b91cdd2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think you press F2 to enter BIOS Setup Found this on search: When the first screen displays, immediately press the F10 key if your computer was built in 2006 or later (came with Vista). Press the F1 key if your computer was built before 2006 (XP or earlier). Press the key once every second until a BIOS Setup utility screen opens. http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=bph07110&dlc=en&lc=en&cc=us I've been able to use the old Compaqs without the restore discs. Good luck On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Richard Smoot wrote: > > This computer has Win 98 SE installed on a 2gb drive. It is a Pentium II with > 128M ram. I have gotten the live disk Simply Mepis to run on it though slowly > because the ram is so small. > This is for a friend short on money. > I found a small 10GB WD drive for it. I want to put Simply Mepis on the new > drive. The problem is that I can not access the bios. > I did find the Manual for it on HP's website. > You press F10 on Startup and the Compaq Utilities in the hidden Diagnostics > Partition are supposed to start up and let you set the Bios. > I press F10 at the appropriate time and nothing happens. > The are supposed to be images of the 2 floppies to reinstall the Compaq > Utilities on the Compaq website. That doesn't work. HP does not appear > to be supplying those images. > > Does anyone have a copy or know where I can get a copy of those floppies? > > Richard Smoot > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. --0021cc022382771729046b91cdd2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think you press F2 to enter BIOS Setup

Found this on search:=
= When the first screen displays, immediately press the=A0F10=A0key if your computer was built in 2006 or = later (came with Vista). Press the=A0F1=A0key if your computer was built before 2006 (XP or earlier). Pr= ess the key once every second until a BIOS Setup utility screen opens.


I've been able to use the old Compaqs without= the restore discs.
Good luck


On Wed, Jun 3, 20= 09 at 3:42 PM, Richard Smoot <= rsmoot@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
> This computer has Win 98 SE installed on a 2gb drive. It is a = Pentium II with
> 128M ram. I have gotten the live disk Simply Mepis = to run on it though slowly
> because the ram is so small.
> Thi= s is for a friend short on money.
> I found a small 10GB WD drive for it. I want to put Simply Mepis on th= e new
> drive. The problem is that I can not access the bios.
>= I did find the Manual for it on HP's website.
> You press F10 on= Startup and the Compaq Utilities in the hidden Diagnostics
> Partition are supposed to start up and let you set the Bios.
> I= press F10 at the appropriate time and nothing happens.
> The are sup= posed to be images of the 2 floppies to reinstall the Compaq
> Utilit= ies on the Compaq website. That doesn't work. HP does not appear
> to be supplying those images.
>
> Does anyone have a copy = or know where I can get a copy of =A0those floppies?
>
> =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Richard Smoot
> --= ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked<= br>> Knowledge Systems (NKS). =A0Views and opinions expressed in message= s
> posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the=
> official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees.

--0021cc022382771729046b91cdd2-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Fri Jun 5 13:05:40 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55H5eFE030793 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:05:40 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n55H5epY030790 for slug-track29; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:05:40 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55H5eXN030786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:05:40 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-c.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-c.nks.net [24.73.112.81]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55H5Zeu029779 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:05:39 -0400 Received: from vms173005pub.verizon.net (vms173005pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.5]) by nks-ma-100-c.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55H0RLU029825 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:00:27 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173005.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KKR00KAOX4O6OP0@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Fri, 05 Jun 2009 11:14:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A294478.20902@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 12:14:48 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: [SLUG] Saving nvidia-settings in Ubuntu 9.04 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173005pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.808, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Hi Sluggers, OK, now I have the desktop the way I like it. Had to install something called "envy" to do it. This is after more than 40 failed edits of the xorg.conf I posted that I *thought* would work. BUT, working the way I like it or not, I can't save it! Ubuntu 9.04 will *not* allow a root login unless you are God, then You wouldn't bother. The root password is set as a hash and you can't change it. So even if you "allow root" in the settings you are wasting your time because you will never know the password. That said, gksudo nvidia-settings gets you into the nvidia configuration where you can set up to your heart's content. But if you try to save you get an error "Failed to parse existing X config file '/etc/X11/xorg.conf'! " In the terminal there is this message: PARSE ERROR: Parse error on line 9 of section Module in file /etc/X11/xorg.conf. "Disable" is not a valid keyword in this section. The xorg.conf does not reflect what is really running: Section "Screen" Identifier "Default Screen" DefaultDepth 24 EndSection Section "Module" Load "glx" Disable "dri2" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "Default Device" Driver "nvidia" EndSection It should have all kinds of stuff in it about the dual screens, twinview, xinerama and all that, which are working, perfectly. I have no idea what "dri2" is, maybe nursing home diapers? -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Fri Jun 5 15:39:58 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55JdvIh019993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 15:39:57 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n55JdvOg019990 for slug-track29; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 15:39:57 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55Jdv6D019986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 15:39:57 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tc.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tc.nks.net [24.73.112.229]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55JdvDZ016773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 15:39:57 -0400 Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com (hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com [71.74.56.125]) by nks-ma-100-tc.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55Jav7r016042 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 15:36:58 -0400 Received: from glaive ([97.106.103.29]) by hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090605193657150.CPVS2527@hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com> for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 19:36:57 +0000 Received: from leebc by glaive with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1MCfDk-00014l-O9 for slug@nks.net; Fri, 05 Jun 2009 15:36:56 -0400 Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 15:36:56 -0400 From: blee2@tampabay.rr.com To: slug@nks.net Subject: [SLUG] swap space on SUN disks Message-ID: <20090605193656.GA13390@glaive.dhs.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-HELO: hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-Mismatched-From: True X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.412, required 6, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, NKS_MISMATCHED_FROM 0.25, NO_REAL_NAME 0.96) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net This week I've been working on cloning some SUN disks using dd. In case anyone else has reason to need to do this, the command I'm using on theis SUN 220R is: dd if=/dev/rdsk/c0t0d0s2 of=/dev/rdsk/c0t0d0s2 bs=10485760 where dsk refers to the disk device rdsk refers to the raw disk c0 is SCSI controller 0 t0 is Target 0 d0 is disk 0 s2 is slice (partition) 2 bs is the number of bytes to read and write at a time 10485760 is 10 megabytes Slices are what SUN calls a partition. Slice 0 is root, starting around block 445. Slice 1 is swap, starting at 0 going to 444. Slice 7 is home starting around block 1000. Slice 2 is interesting: called "backup" it is defined as ALL blocks on the disk, starting at 0, going through the end of the disk. It overlaps the other slices. Slices 3 through 6 are undefined. Testing indicates the partition table of the target will be overwritten with the the partition table of the source. You should fsck the partitions on the target drive after the clone. QUESTION: Can anyone think of a reason to put the swap at the beginning of the disk? I always try to put my swap in the MIDDLE of the disk for lowest latency. This may not be a SUN default and was just something the guy who built this server 3 years ago did. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Fri Jun 5 17:19:13 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55LJD0m001506 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:19:13 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n55LJDRH001503 for slug-track29; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:19:13 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55LJDcq001499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:19:13 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tc.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tc.nks.net [24.73.112.229]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55LJCds028695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:19:12 -0400 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.247]) by nks-ma-100-tc.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55LHiWi026144 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:17:45 -0400 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c3so1236212ana.4 for ; Fri, 05 Jun 2009 14:17:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-enigmail-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=X/aK2BrBjOKOthMT8x8bNRiKV9Y3jj0PC2K+YSbRQ+Y=; b=qVI2FYBaEn5E+wQrzpa/7LZbYwxCpSzeKFZWX2E5Gf2Sh53Si+JBfoBLofI0rNwDl/ tXHu5nZ2DYAWqdrw/zGkZMPNjcY1JQjezMqmSFRDbbeh6c0x8rF06wRCmzt+3ErIAT16 xJeM0ZP88hQGbFQscx2/ycqfw0Do1JH7hdXeU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=q8wgomxgzAXS5uOfI9B4M95tLOkUAO3Rg6o7nS4DMM0Nqx53SaHOERsyLMhzyQBBAT aBk8jHoMdfNz81dl9oT2sNyYxbvVCLCdvKmIuMKGv4Hl4Iue88SWnXbMGpwrlLxrS6lH w2NdUsqaUGMvcvfTkjAmiJcaW6qALM5bDiBAg= Received: by 10.100.154.17 with SMTP id b17mr4676729ane.45.1244236663638; Fri, 05 Jun 2009 14:17:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.2.200? (215-137.35-65.tampabay.res.rr.com [65.35.137.215]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 9sm610454yws.50.2009.06.05.14.17.42 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 05 Jun 2009 14:17:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4A298B7A.904@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 17:17:46 -0400 From: Paul Bransford User-Agent: Mozilla-Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Saving nvidia-settings in Ubuntu 9.04 References: <4A294478.20902@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <4A294478.20902@verizon.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HELO: an-out-0708.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-5.374, required 6, AWL -5.62, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_youhavewon 0.25) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Pete Theisen wrote: > Hi Sluggers, > > OK, now I have the desktop the way I like it. Had to install something > called "envy" to do it. This is after more than 40 failed edits of the > xorg.conf I posted that I *thought* would work. BUT, working the way I > like it or not, I can't save it! > > Ubuntu 9.04 will *not* allow a root login unless you are God, then You > wouldn't bother. The root password is set as a hash and you can't change > it. So even if you "allow root" in the settings you are wasting your > time because you will never know the password. > > That said, gksudo nvidia-settings gets you into the nvidia configuration > where you can set up to your heart's content. But if you try to save you > get an error "Failed to parse existing X config file > '/etc/X11/xorg.conf'! " > > In the terminal there is this message: > > PARSE ERROR: Parse error on line 9 of section Module in file > /etc/X11/xorg.conf. > "Disable" is not a valid keyword in this section. > > The xorg.conf does not reflect what is really running: > > Section "Screen" > Identifier "Default Screen" > DefaultDepth 24 > EndSection > > Section "Module" > Load "glx" > Disable "dri2" > EndSection > > Section "Device" > Identifier "Default Device" > Driver "nvidia" > EndSection > > It should have all kinds of stuff in it about the dual screens, > twinview, xinerama and all that, which are working, perfectly. I have no > idea what "dri2" is, maybe nursing home diapers? DRI is a direct rendering implementation only supported by a few OSS drivers. The binary nvidia drivers don't support it. Just delete that line. The X11 server won't load DRI with that driver anyways. As far as the missing things... new versions of X11 (like what Ubuntu has) autodetect most things. The exception seems to be 'binary' drivers like nvidia and fireglx, which you DO need to specify. Anecdote: I used to have an old dell CRT that had the wrong EDID burned into it, it would report as an even earlier model. This means that X11 wouldn't let me use 1280x1024 unless I manually specified modelines, refresh rates, etc - and then went and specifically told the nvidia driver to ignore EDID data. Was a real PITA. Now that I have a 'real' monitor, it's nice to not have to worry about all that. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Fri Jun 5 17:52:19 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55LqIA8006102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:52:18 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n55LqIYu006099 for slug-track29; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:52:18 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55LqIuD006095 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:52:18 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tk.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tk.nks.net [24.73.112.237]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55LqIQF032476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:52:18 -0400 Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com (hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com [71.74.56.122]) by nks-ma-100-tk.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55Lp2Il009318 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:51:02 -0400 Received: from zippy ([97.97.22.47]) by hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090605215101703.ZNFU23263@hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com> for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 21:51:01 +0000 From: "R.G. Mayhue" To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Saving nvidia-settings in Ubuntu 9.04 Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:50:53 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.11.4 (Linux/2.6.28-11-generic; KDE/4.2.4; i686; ; ) References: <4A294478.20902@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <4A294478.20902@verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200906051750.53401.rmayhue@tampabay.rr.com> X-HELO: hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-10, required 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_50 0.00, SPF_PASS -0.00, WGL_rmayhue_Pat_tampabay_Pdo_rr_Pdo_com -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net On Friday 05 June 2009 12:14:48 pm Pete Theisen wrote: > [...] > Ubuntu 9.04 will *not* allow a root login unless you are God, then You > wouldn't bother. The root password is set as a hash and you can't change > it. So even if you "allow root" in the settings you are wasting your > time because you will never know the password. [...] You should be able to use 'sudo su -' to get to a root prompt. Just enter your normal user password as you would with any other 'sudo' command. -- Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Fri Jun 5 18:09:07 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55M96IN008492 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:09:07 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n55M96vo008489 for slug-track29; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:09:06 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55M96Lj008484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:09:06 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-ti.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-ti.nks.net [24.73.112.235]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55M95Wt001926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:09:06 -0400 Received: from vms173005pub.verizon.net (vms173005pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.5]) by nks-ma-100-ti.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55M8WS6026509 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:08:32 -0400 Received: from news.home ([96.243.182.3]) by vms173005.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KKS00624DI3MYHC@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Fri, 05 Jun 2009 17:08:27 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 18:08:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Eben King X-X-Sender: eben@pc.home To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Saving nvidia-settings in Ubuntu 9.04 In-reply-to: <200906051750.53401.rmayhue@tampabay.rr.com> Message-id: References: <4A294478.20902@verizon.net> <200906051750.53401.rmayhue@tampabay.rr.com> User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (DEB 882 2007-12-20) X-GetARealMailreader: On Friday 05 June 2009 12:14:48 pm Pete Theisen wrote: >> >> Ubuntu 9.04 will *not* allow a root login unless you are God, then You >> wouldn't bother. The root password is set as a hash and you can't change >> it. So even if you "allow root" in the settings you are wasting your >> time because you will never know the password. > > You should be able to use 'sudo su -' to get to a root prompt. Just enter your > normal user password as you would with any other 'sudo' command. Do that from outside of X, then run "startx". Can you run "passwd" from in there? How about manually editing /etc/shadow/passwd (this is dangerous, don't screw up)? -- -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81 Two atoms are walking along. Suddenly, one stops. The other says, "What's wrong?" "I've lost an electron." "Are you sure?" "I'm positive!" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Fri Jun 5 18:20:28 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55MKSad010148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:20:28 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n55MKSPn010145 for slug-track29; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:20:28 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55MKRPi010141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:20:28 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-d.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-d.nks.net [24.73.112.82]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55MKRvn003330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:20:27 -0400 Received: from vms173009pub.verizon.net (vms173009pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.9]) by nks-ma-100-d.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55MJXsO019638 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:19:33 -0400 Received: from news.home ([96.243.182.3]) by vms173009.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KKS0015NDZU4WP0@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Fri, 05 Jun 2009 17:19:06 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 18:19:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Eben King X-X-Sender: eben@pc.home To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Saving nvidia-settings in Ubuntu 9.04 In-reply-to: <4A298B7A.904@gmail.com> Message-id: References: <4A294478.20902@verizon.net> <4A298B7A.904@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (DEB 882 2007-12-20) X-GetARealMailreader: Pete Theisen wrote: >> >> It should have all kinds of stuff in it about the dual screens, >> twinview, xinerama and all that, which are working, perfectly. I have no >> idea what "dri2" is, maybe nursing home diapers? > > Anecdote: I used to have an old dell CRT that had the wrong EDID burned > into it, it would report as an even earlier model. This means that X11 > wouldn't let me use 1280x1024 unless I manually specified modelines, > refresh rates, etc - and then went and specifically told the nvidia > driver to ignore EDID data. Was a real PITA. Now that I have a 'real' > monitor, it's nice to not have to worry about all that. I used to use a Dell CRT also. I forget what video card I used; maybe it outlasted several. Anyhow, its stated maximum resolution was 1280x1024. I hated the idea of using a 5:4 resolution when everything else was 4:3, so I kept going. I settled on 1536x1152 (manually-entered mode). It ran that way for over a year. It didn't die, I upgraded. -- -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81 Q: What kind of modem did Jimi Hendrix use? A: A purple Hayes. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Fri Jun 5 18:24:59 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55MOwkn010776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:24:58 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n55MOweh010773 for slug-track29; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:24:58 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55MOwdS010769 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:24:58 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sc.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sc.nks.net [24.73.112.206]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55MOwOP003819 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:24:58 -0400 Received: from vms173001pub.verizon.net (vms173001pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.1]) by nks-ma-100-sc.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55MNlBV030279 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:23:47 -0400 Received: from news.home ([96.243.182.3]) by vms173001.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KKS002IRE7FJE3F@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Fri, 05 Jun 2009 17:23:40 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 18:23:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Eben King X-X-Sender: eben@pc.home To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] swap space on SUN disks In-reply-to: <20090605193656.GA13390@glaive.dhs.org> Message-id: References: <20090605193656.GA13390@glaive.dhs.org> User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (DEB 882 2007-12-20) X-GetARealMailreader: This week I've been working on cloning some SUN disks using dd. > > In case anyone else has reason to need to do this, the command I'm using on theis SUN 220R is: > > dd if=/dev/rdsk/c0t0d0s2 of=/dev/rdsk/c0t0d0s2 bs=10485760 > where > dsk refers to the disk device > rdsk refers to the raw disk > c0 is SCSI controller 0 > t0 is Target 0 > d0 is disk 0 > s2 is slice (partition) 2 > bs is the number of bytes to read and write at a time > 10485760 is 10 megabytes > > > Slices are what SUN calls a partition. Slice 0 is root, starting around > block 445. Slice 1 is swap, starting at 0 going to 444. Slice 7 is home > starting around block 1000. Slice 2 is interesting: called "backup" > it is defined as ALL blocks on the disk, starting at 0, going through > the end of the disk. It overlaps the other slices. Slices 3 through > 6 are undefined. > > Testing indicates the partition table of the target will be overwritten > with the the partition table of the source. > > You should fsck the partitions on the target drive after the clone. > > QUESTION: > Can anyone think of a reason to put the swap at the beginning of the disk? > I always try to put my swap in the MIDDLE of the disk for lowest latency. > This may not be a SUN default and was just something the guy who built > this server 3 years ago did. If you assume that the blocks are numbered starting at the outer edge moving inward, then (since hard drives rotate at a constant velocity) you'd get the highest throughput on lower-numbered blocks. I don't know how you can know that, given multiple platters and transparent bad-block replacement. -- -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81 > A: It's annoying as hell > Q: Why do most people hate top-posting? -- Lots42 The Library Avenger http://www.fscked.co.uk/writing/top-posting-cuss.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Fri Jun 5 18:33:56 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55MXuVl012019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:33:56 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n55MXuZi012016 for slug-track29; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:33:56 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55MXtsY012012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:33:55 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sp.nks.net [24.73.112.219]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55MXtr2004744 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:33:55 -0400 Received: from mail-gx0-f214.google.com (mail-gx0-f214.google.com [209.85.217.214]) by nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55MUrjY000887 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:30:53 -0400 Received: by gxk10 with SMTP id 10so3332362gxk.13 for ; Fri, 05 Jun 2009 15:30:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:from:to:in-reply-to :references:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer :content-transfer-encoding; bh=5M/KouU8pUyl7S+jX8Ghl/06uO170ZC10E3pCK3OATk=; b=LvdZXwiKMoql7nqwWNRu8KPMjT8ptDhiccscm4r08zVC20y5WM3fPdG1997WRWWxje 9ncQ0XrlUY5wTmWeWPRKFFnkXbCDQAL41mU+Q+fXP8vN2osrbCEt+oVr71CNmHU5hhmI R/SPJQc2auc3Ram6+5c+0gKoDDvJzIfRQGQ9k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:from:to:in-reply-to:references:content-type:date:message-id :mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; b=mty7vKkSlsFPSjHuBb5KK3OPHdPcIWjyYHVo+XD+OSGplpA5U9E+mbxkM1t84IuUSS axkyt4YuHuPWLpjK4z25nDhY3Wg6/TI4JmNATzUko3wf/PYNxNn/Y96UrDgBMd4MZ2uV aM5uYkoX+7m04pN1vYIVxYwyX+TsOksYrfNKY= Received: by 10.151.119.2 with SMTP id w2mr7009431ybm.200.1244241052894; Fri, 05 Jun 2009 15:30:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.11? (fl-76-5-28-165.dhcp.embarqhsd.net [76.5.28.165]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 9sm858137yws.50.2009.06.05.15.30.51 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 05 Jun 2009 15:30:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [SLUG] Saving nvidia-settings in Ubuntu 9.04 From: vern To: slug@nks.net In-Reply-To: <4A294478.20902@verizon.net> References: <4A294478.20902@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 18:30:44 -0400 Message-Id: <1244241044.6859.12.camel@VTower164> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HELO: mail-gx0-f214.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-5.79, required 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_20 -0.74, BP_UbuntuSecurityNotice -5.05) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net On Fri, 2009-06-05 at 12:14 -0400, Pete Theisen wrote: > Hi Sluggers, > > OK, now I have the desktop the way I like it. Had to install something > called "envy" to do it. This is after more than 40 failed edits of the > xorg.conf I posted that I *thought* would work. BUT, working the way I > like it or not, I can't save it! > > Ubuntu 9.04 will *not* allow a root login unless you are God, then You > wouldn't bother. The root password is set as a hash and you can't change > it. So even if you "allow root" in the settings you are wasting your > time because you will never know the password. > > That said, gksudo nvidia-settings gets you into the nvidia configuration > where you can set up to your heart's content. But if you try to save you > get an error "Failed to parse existing X config file '/etc/X11/xorg.conf'! " > Hi Pete, I was poking around in my Ubuntu 9.04(64 bit flavor) and you can actually allow root login by going through "Login Window" preferences, Security tab. There is a check box there to "Allow local sys admin login". But you also would need to set the root password which i think is done through "Users and Groups" and set also the /home directory for root as well. I did notice a Configure X Server button under that Security tab... I don't know why and i aint going there because mine is working just fine. I don't know about envy, but when I just installed this system a few days ago I got the Nvidia driver installed, did the sudo nvidia-settings from the terminal, setup my dual display, saved it and all is well. Don't know if any of this helps you or not ? vern ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Fri Jun 5 18:54:29 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55MsTYI014862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:54:29 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n55MsTHZ014859 for slug-track29; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:54:29 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55MsSvR014855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:54:28 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tm.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tm.nks.net [24.73.112.239]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55MsS1j007033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:54:28 -0400 Received: from vms173007pub.verizon.net (vms173007pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.7]) by nks-ma-100-tm.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55Mrpng019234 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:53:52 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173007.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KKS004ETFLM3NNE@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Fri, 05 Jun 2009 17:53:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A29A1FC.3030706@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 18:53:48 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Saving nvidia-settings in Ubuntu 9.04 References: <4A294478.20902@verizon.net> <200906051750.53401.rmayhue@tampabay.rr.com> In-reply-to: <200906051750.53401.rmayhue@tampabay.rr.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173007pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-0.785, required 6, AWL -2.59, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net R.G. Mayhue wrote: > On Friday 05 June 2009 12:14:48 pm Pete Theisen wrote: > > [...] > >> Ubuntu 9.04 will *not* allow a root login unless you are God, then You >> wouldn't bother. The root password is set as a hash and you can't change >> it. So even if you "allow root" in the settings you are wasting your >> time because you will never know the password. > > [...] > > You should be able to use 'sudo su -' to get to a root prompt. Just enter your > normal user password as you would with any other 'sudo' command. > > -- Rob Hi Rob, You do, but it only works in the terminal. The graphical tools still don't have root permission even if you are root in the terminal. In 8.10 the tool I am trying to use would ask you for your password, but no more. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Fri Jun 5 19:04:28 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55N4SxG016316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 19:04:28 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n55N4SUe016313 for slug-track29; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 19:04:28 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55N4Sdf016309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 19:04:28 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tc.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tc.nks.net [24.73.112.229]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55N4R1M008233 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 19:04:28 -0400 Received: from vms173007pub.verizon.net (vms173007pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.7]) by nks-ma-100-tc.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n55N3unJ004269 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 19:03:56 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173007.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KKS00HXOG2IGV08@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Fri, 05 Jun 2009 18:03:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A29A45C.6070407@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 19:03:56 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Saving nvidia-settings in Ubuntu 9.04 References: <4A294478.20902@verizon.net> <1244241044.6859.12.camel@VTower164> In-reply-to: <1244241044.6859.12.camel@VTower164> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173007pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-3.334, required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL 1.61, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_UbuntuSecurityNotice -5.05) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net vern wrote: > I was poking around in my Ubuntu 9.04(64 bit flavor) and you can > actually allow root login by going through "Login Window" preferences, > Security tab. There is a check box there to "Allow local sys admin > login". > But you also would need to set the root password which i think is done > through "Users and Groups" and set also the /home directory for root as > well. > I did notice a Configure X Server button under that Security tab... I > don't know why and i aint going there because mine is working just fine. > > I don't know about envy, but when I just installed this system a few > days ago I got the Nvidia driver installed, did the sudo nvidia-settings > from the terminal, setup my dual display, saved it and all is well. > > Don't know if any of this helps you or not ? Hi Vern! Mine is 32 bit, so I suppose it is different. "They" have fixing this on a "wishlist" so they know about it. I asked if there is a work-around but so far no reply. I will just leave it running. If it crashes or becomes unstable before they fix it I will deal with that then. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sun Jun 7 00:23:48 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n574NlBp003432 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 00:23:47 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n574NlQY003429 for slug-track29; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 00:23:47 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n574NiOp003414 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 00:23:45 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-ta.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-ta.nks.net [24.73.112.227]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n574Ni0F020484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 00:23:44 -0400 Received: from SANCTUM.COM (ns1.marlowe.net [216.253.133.145]) by nks-ma-100-ta.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n574N3BD002254 for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 00:23:13 -0400 Received: from easystreet.home (*authenticated* [96.254.85.249] rnr@sanctum.com) by SANCTUM.COM with ESMTP (IOA-IPAD 6.19f) id 3M9KF00 for ; Sat, 06 Jun 2009 23:50:30 -0400 From: Bob Stia Organization: Easystreet To: slug@nks.net Subject: [SLUG] streaming audio Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 23:44:28 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200906062344.28883.rnr@sanctum.com> X-SANCTUM.COM-AS: au:1 mx:-1 es:0 sc:0+0 ap:0 ex:1 X-HELO: SANCTUM.COM X-Mismatched-Host: True X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-9.749, required 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_50 0.00, NKS_MISMATCHED_HOST 0.25, WGL_rnr_Pat_sanctum_Pdo_com -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Hello Sluggers, Trying to listen to streaming audio from a local radio station on line with Firefox. When I click on "Listen" I get the following message and do not know what it is telling me. I checked preferences in Firefox but did not find anything appropriate. /tmp/GenerateASX2-1.asp could not be opened, because the associated helper application does not exist. Change the association in your preferences. Anybody know/ explain to me? Bob S ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sun Jun 7 00:53:16 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n574rGhT007523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 00:53:16 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n574rGD2007520 for slug-track29; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 00:53:16 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n574rFO6007516 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 00:53:16 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-ta.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-ta.nks.net [24.73.112.227]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n574rFoP022530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 00:53:15 -0400 Received: from mail-bw0-f228.google.com (mail-bw0-f228.google.com [209.85.218.228]) by nks-ma-100-ta.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n574qk0h004363 for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 00:52:47 -0400 Received: by bwz28 with SMTP id 28so2495646bwz.13 for ; Sat, 06 Jun 2009 21:52:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=nFUHfGwsVGu2jncSheheWeWXbMwa0CZPhuHErpcjWdc=; b=Wwk1dgijpRWy2iCWPM2XerL3KEFRmKjYxs4zn7H+ta1PlonkwLGcckyBHH/PcAqxad kca2rSbRoAXzejdKmJx9wIoZOHNFq9UupW5DMZKYqKeUgHu2v/aKg0i9aH2rNCLan/Vb MXQN3N2hSIHP3oCGthrG5W0JNAIVn8mWG6F8I= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Qf4xzt/5FrhAgetgdOp2nHLDOy+zlL55ZUqS8kq1IWMbQzrtd+BY5A5qHdkllcZFxx kvU78Y4I3YqzK/eBLDsqlhrQsPbYRi8WAhU4kBODYKtEI84bNqqNXBEjY0E3l306/99W 4FT0Ogeb71jhegpTFeiRI4LsoC9Ik8vsDk0cI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.103.210 with SMTP id l18mr4979294bko.206.1244350365696; Sat, 06 Jun 2009 21:52:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200906062344.28883.rnr@sanctum.com> References: <200906062344.28883.rnr@sanctum.com> Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 00:52:45 -0400 Message-ID: <620c90570906062152h240d6a80k6e885f6a7c989495@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [SLUG] streaming audio From: Chuck Hast To: slug@nks.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HELO: mail-bw0-f228.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-10.599, required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL 1.30, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_00 -2.60, J_CHICKENPOX_23 0.60, WGL_wchast_Pat_gmail_Pdo_com -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 23:44, Bob Stia wrote: > Hello Sluggers, > > Trying to listen to streaming audio from a local radio station on line with > Firefox. When I click on "Listen" I get the following message and do not know > what it is telling me. I checked preferences in Firefox but did not find > anything appropriate. > > /tmp/GenerateASX2-1.asp could not be opened, because the associated helper > application does not exist. Change the association in your preferences. > > Anybody know/ explain to me? > Not sure what to tell you, but I just tried one, and I started getting audio just fine then it stopped and dropped a screen on me that told me that I needed to download mplayer, even though I was getting the audio just fine. At least it tries to get me set up on Linux, so will give them a big plus for that, but sort of wish that it would let me test what I have instead of insisting that I download something else... -- Chuck Hast -- KP4DJT -- To paraphrase my flight instructor; "the only dumb question is the one you DID NOT ask resulting in my going out and having to identify your bits and pieces in the midst of torn and twisted metal." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sun Jun 7 09:58:40 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57Dwdx9019193 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 09:58:39 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n57DwdbA019190 for slug-track29; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 09:58:39 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57Dwd7F019186 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 09:58:39 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tk.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tk.nks.net [24.73.112.237]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57DwdIE012857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 09:58:39 -0400 Received: from mail-bw0-f228.google.com (mail-bw0-f228.google.com [209.85.218.228]) by nks-ma-100-tk.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57Ddcfh021107 for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 09:39:39 -0400 Received: by bwz28 with SMTP id 28so2640946bwz.13 for ; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 06:39:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:from:date:message-id :subject:to:content-type; bh=uvRz9wp+Kk+CaoG9brSaWsYqnTrL/+9TXO2YK5qMTJw=; b=lP47cfpSE4jjmmBplo2gG9mPqJjiy+r16yVgnCadsxImkuAA81hg6owrbNEmVKPpcC 5XlDlRy7Kzv/eyCGoRqPX1aieXcO8HKQ45Za3IHQK+5iAxqsc1LVYTWb/xOHbYMob57x d3O/wvQ/mjmKqpSmFKSqZupGnJNIh7jjZ+6ag= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; b=BvI4VgKaz0BA/5BqOMNLHpqWspKGm3KiED4+3qgHy2eR/Hk8Gc6QJb4Z4PGkHF9PuL VJXJhc5rJ+cV8LB1ISaOs0sopuqiyD/QLklCdqXz4VrGb7SGF0thQdRb5LSjFdHnE8jH HQss1lsrnV97SINf2qM4w5+5GqGjKsJ5ZE8oc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.113.132 with SMTP id a4mr3043467faq.75.1244381977168; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 06:39:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Fisher Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 09:39:17 -0400 Message-ID: <3461d5200906070639jf3696a1k360e67a99fad1f3@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [SLUG] Corrupted Mouse Driver To: SLUG Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5a84eb6cc50046bc2410b X-HELO: mail-bw0-f228.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=2.103, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAD_STRING_gmail_PUNCdot_com 0.65, BAYES_50 0.00, HTML_10_20 1.35, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: ss X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net --001636c5a84eb6cc50046bc2410b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recently went through an upgrade from Ubuntu 7.10 to 8.04 on my ThinkPad T61which went smoothly (or so I thought). After a couple of days I wanted to try out a XubunTOS LiveCD (without any installation) and when I rebooted back to Ubuntu 8.04 I lost all usage on both my USB Mouse and TrackPoint. I brought up update-manager and installed any updates and reinstalled anything that had to do with mouse drivers but still no luck. Any ideas on what I can do short of a complete reinstallation of Ubuntu 8.04. Any help would be greatly appreciated... Mike -- Michael Fisher desNotes@gmail.com --001636c5a84eb6cc50046bc2410b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I recently went through an upgrade from Ubuntu 7.10 to 8.04 on my ThinkPad = T61which went smoothly (or so I thought). After a couple of days I wanted t= o try out a XubunTOS LiveCD (without any installation) and when I rebooted = back to Ubuntu 8.04 I lost all usage on both my USB Mouse and TrackPoint.
I brought up update-manager and installed any updates and re= installed anything that had to do with mouse drivers but still no luck. Any= ideas on what I can do short of a complete reinstallation of Ubuntu 8.04.<= br>

Any help would be greatly appreciated...

=
Mike

--
Michael Fisher
desNotes@gmail.com

--001636c5a84eb6cc50046bc2410b-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sun Jun 7 10:13:32 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57EDWr6021328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:13:32 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n57EDW9b021325 for slug-track29; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:13:32 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57EDVZI021314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:13:31 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tc.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tc.nks.net [24.73.112.229]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57EDGBv014592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:13:17 -0400 Received: from haylee.gendns10.com (haylee.gendns10.com [216.180.234.5]) by nks-ma-100-tc.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57EC2eC013487 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:12:02 -0400 Received: from pool-71-98-164-144.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.98.164.144]:50823 helo=sherman.mars.lan) by haylee.gendns10.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MDJ6P-0004Hd-7R; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 10:12:01 -0400 Received: by sherman.mars.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CE40456A58; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:11:58 -0400 (EDT) To: slug@nks.net, slug-announce@nks.net, cola@stump.algebra.com Subject: [SLUG] Suncoast LUG Meetings Message-Id: <20090607141158.CE40456A58@sherman.mars.lan> Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:11:58 -0400 (EDT) From: paulf@quillandmouse.com (Paul M Foster) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - haylee.gendns10.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - nks.net X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - quillandmouse.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-HELO: haylee.gendns10.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-7.844, required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL 2.02, BAYES_50 0.00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, WGL_paulf_Pat_quillandmouse_Pdo_com -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net ************************************* * Suncoast Linux Users Group (SLUG) * * Meeting Schedule * ************************************* TAMPA **************************************************** 9 June 19:00-21:00 Tampa (Usually Tuesday, usually first half of month) Hillsborough Community College Dale Mabry Campus Technology Bldg, Rm 426 4001 Tampa Bay Blvd Tampa, FL See http://www.hccfl.edu/pollock/Docs/DM-Map.htm for directions. *********************************************************** ACTIVITIES: Meetings may include: 1) Presentation: As indicated. 2) Question & Answer Session. 3) Raffle and free stuff! Bring your boxes, questions, problems, and plenty of good cheer! (And don't forget to start your installs early!) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sun Jun 7 16:13:33 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57KDWVG006886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:13:32 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n57KDWJS006883 for slug-track29; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:13:32 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57KDWFO006879 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:13:32 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tg.nks.net [24.73.112.233]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57KDTW0015803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:13:32 -0400 Received: from mail-bw0-f228.google.com (mail-bw0-f228.google.com [209.85.218.228]) by nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57KAcXx017062 for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:10:38 -0400 Received: by bwz28 with SMTP id 28so2784546bwz.13 for ; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 13:10:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=opGptPzTxnAnsM4Vxvdo/pWmhLbDbiSKetYdZCo1djA=; b=YTvtCfy0ncKet7DiaEbn8EZsL6x/R0+rc8TJW3ZmWAHK48wJudPHPyo5VonB9SdsCH 90YWwFtKSPXHAqpwcGDcTZQLGpGhNBLv1NAZK2Fkb07lhjEQPBJ37QkJ1gcu/aIuNRbp Dm3vp6MOZE9H76+fbV8T91+jdpu/zfL9geBxI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; b=HGGsuScIYLrkKG+9SlPOh5ckV/tvJY4bUWH2dtSKMWJyj0AETpwILzkDyY3EKH0p98 Z9c2s5/9DE5F7yW+R+rivDPxLouAnQvysm4VJB7M41WoiYW2/Onivqh9YdVILa0UQnSQ W2ysqh3NyvgIT4Sn0jY7g7nfzRXjNIs4G14+w= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.111.71 with SMTP id r7mr3389451fap.59.1244405437128; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 13:10:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3461d5200906070639jf3696a1k360e67a99fad1f3@mail.gmail.com> References: <3461d5200906070639jf3696a1k360e67a99fad1f3@mail.gmail.com> From: Michael Fisher Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:10:17 -0400 Message-ID: <3461d5200906071310paeee95ble4282bc81aea1e27@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [SLUG] Fwd: Corrupted Mouse Driver To: SLUG Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5b2f00962c0046bc7b8b0 X-HELO: mail-bw0-f228.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=4.326, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAD_STRING_gmail_PUNCdot_com 0.65, BAYES_50 0.00, HTML_30_40 0.37, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00, NO_DNS_FOR_FROM 3.20) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: ssss X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net --001636c5b2f00962c0046bc7b8b0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is my post coming through? Anybody out there? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Michael Fisher Date: Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 9:39 AM Subject: Corrupted Mouse Driver To: SLUG Mailing List I recently went through an upgrade from Ubuntu 7.10 to 8.04 on my ThinkPad T61which went smoothly (or so I thought). After a couple of days I wanted to try out a XubunTOS LiveCD (without any installation) and when I rebooted back to Ubuntu 8.04 I lost all usage on both my USB Mouse and TrackPoint. I brought up update-manager and installed any updates and reinstalled anything that had to do with mouse drivers but still no luck. Any ideas on what I can do short of a complete reinstallation of Ubuntu 8.04. Any help would be greatly appreciated... Mike -- Michael Fisher desNotes@gmail.com -- Michael Fisher desNotes@gmail.com Sent from Odessa, Florida, United States --001636c5b2f00962c0046bc7b8b0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is my post coming through? Anybody out there?

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Michael Fisher <desnotes@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 9:39 AM
Subject: Corrupted Mouse Driver
To:= SLUG Mailing List <slug@nks.net>=


I recently went through an upgrade from Ubuntu 7.10 to 8.04 on = my ThinkPad T61which went smoothly (or so I thought). After a couple of day= s I wanted to try out a XubunTOS LiveCD (without any installation) and when= I rebooted back to Ubuntu 8.04 I lost all usage on both my USB Mouse and T= rackPoint.

I brought up update-manager and installed any updates and re= installed anything that had to do with mouse drivers but still no luck. Any= ideas on what I can do short of a complete reinstallation of Ubuntu 8.04.<= br>

Any help would be greatly appreciated...

=
Mike

--
Michael Fisher
desNotes@gmail.com




--
Michael Fisher
desNotes@gmail.com
Sent from Odessa, Florida, Un= ited States --001636c5b2f00962c0046bc7b8b0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sun Jun 7 16:14:26 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57KEQqw007025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:14:26 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n57KEQp7007022 for slug-track29; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:14:26 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57KEQjd007007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:14:26 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tb.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tb.nks.net [24.73.112.228]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57KEP6B015899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:14:26 -0400 Received: from vms173017pub.verizon.net (vms173017pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.17]) by nks-ma-100-tb.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57KAgXW005705 for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:10:43 -0400 Received: from news.home ([96.243.182.3]) by vms173017.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KKV004X6X9M9DM0@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 15:08:11 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 16:08:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Eben King X-X-Sender: eben@pc.home To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] streaming audio In-reply-to: <200906062344.28883.rnr@sanctum.com> Message-id: References: <200906062344.28883.rnr@sanctum.com> User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (DEB 882 2007-12-20) X-GetARealMailreader: Hello Sluggers, > > Trying to listen to streaming audio from a local radio station on line with > Firefox. When I click on "Listen" I get the following message and do not know > what it is telling me. I checked preferences in Firefox but did not find > anything appropriate. > > /tmp/GenerateASX2-1.asp could not be opened, because the associated helper > application does not exist. Change the association in your preferences. > > Anybody know/ explain to me? FF is trying to launch some program (the helper app) to handle the streaming audio (actually a link that describes the stream). This failed for some reason. I can't divine why as I'm not FF. Could be their site's broken. Could be the app thinks it's already running and it's only allowed to run once. Could be FF is using the wrong calling protocol for it. Maybe there's some relevant info in /var/log/syslog or you can post the URL of the page that has the streaming audio link and someone here can figure out more. -- -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81 "windows seems to have stupidity buil[t] into it." -- sobriquet on a.o.l. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sun Jun 7 16:41:34 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57KfY3A010844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:41:34 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n57KfYts010841 for slug-track29; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:41:34 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57KfXDm010837 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:41:33 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-d.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-d.nks.net [24.73.112.82]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57KfXcg019402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:41:33 -0400 Received: from vms173009pub.verizon.net (vms173009pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.9]) by nks-ma-100-d.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57KcIOn019083 for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:38:18 -0400 Received: from news.home ([96.243.182.3]) by vms173009.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KKV00CFOYH3BRR6@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 15:34:15 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 16:34:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Eben King X-X-Sender: eben@pc.home To: SLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [SLUG] Fwd: Corrupted Mouse Driver In-reply-to: <3461d5200906071310paeee95ble4282bc81aea1e27@mail.gmail.com> Message-id: References: <3461d5200906070639jf3696a1k360e67a99fad1f3@mail.gmail.com> <3461d5200906071310paeee95ble4282bc81aea1e27@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (DEB 882 2007-12-20) X-GetARealMailreader: Is my post coming through? Anybody out there? Yes it came through. Jeez, give people more than half an hour to reply. Most haven't even checked their mail in that time. I have no idea. > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Michael Fisher > Date: Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 9:39 AM > Subject: Corrupted Mouse Driver > To: SLUG Mailing List > > > I recently went through an upgrade from Ubuntu 7.10 to 8.04 on my ThinkPad > T61which went smoothly (or so I thought). After a couple of days I wanted to > try out a XubunTOS LiveCD (without any installation) and when I rebooted > back to Ubuntu 8.04 I lost all usage on both my USB Mouse and TrackPoint. > I brought up update-manager and installed any updates and reinstalled > anything that had to do with mouse drivers but still no luck. Any ideas on > what I can do short of a complete reinstallation of Ubuntu 8.04. -- -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP http://royalty.mine.nu:81 "You're one of those condescending Unix computer users!" "Here's a nickel, kid. Get yourself a better computer" - Dilbert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sun Jun 7 16:50:22 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57KoMjY012087 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:50:22 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n57KoMpT012084 for slug-track29; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:50:22 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57KoLbx012069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:50:21 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-ta.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-ta.nks.net [24.73.112.227]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57KoLEU020385 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:50:21 -0400 Received: from mail-fx0-f210.google.com (mail-fx0-f210.google.com [209.85.220.210]) by nks-ma-100-ta.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57KnF6F017315 for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:49:15 -0400 Received: by fxm6 with SMTP id 6so2790141fxm.13 for ; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 13:49:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=v9mcjkrIBWsnWhNRCwMxOp7Dn9xxRZhqTnyj9YZltX0=; b=J8MqKzMXO16F47IVARviIsqHdLu7SFkKrr0N+elrPiQZRcmvGABO1JUzwK5EUvx3YC ByqbUZV0zKMfKYHPexMjrT7/3a7yoX3qzBCoVh90EmZHd2Vvu+Dkmu1fB9FzkAkEWg+g eP+ajAIyJRNHW2Gtq9FCL0ipIA33kZkjyZhFY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; b=R0fFlXtNWm/0DALT7rXL0I+c0/dSnzkJISWGaL0MMW5rQ687oCtQeGnYVy5GeYlrZo dUDBnxcyBTLgAzIjgHNXOT80Z0fL89owHkMUKVh5PbowJbRlIDe6CGOOF3ji+nCRcA6+ pqRVG7axXlzqW1NJo7G0rCb9tWbwMbv41wMBo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.122.204 with SMTP id m12mr3411572far.73.1244407754198; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 13:49:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <3461d5200906070639jf3696a1k360e67a99fad1f3@mail.gmail.com> <3461d5200906071310paeee95ble4282bc81aea1e27@mail.gmail.com> From: Michael Fisher Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:48:51 -0400 Message-ID: <3461d5200906071348q67af2675va3ee3586cf994b11@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [SLUG] Fwd: Corrupted Mouse Driver To: slug@nks.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5b356250f35046bc84202 X-HELO: mail-fx0-f210.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.126, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAD_STRING_gmail_PUNCdot_com 0.65, BAYES_50 0.00, HTML_30_40 0.37, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net --001636c5b356250f35046bc84202 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The reason I inquired whether it got through was because I had not received anything. I apologize for appearing to be impatient. On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 4:34 PM, Eben King wrote: > On Sun, 7 Jun 2009, Michael Fisher wrote: > > Is my post coming through? Anybody out there? >> > > Yes it came through. Jeez, give people more than half an hour to reply. > Most haven't even checked their mail in that time. I have no idea. > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Michael Fisher >> Date: Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 9:39 AM >> Subject: Corrupted Mouse Driver >> To: SLUG Mailing List >> >> >> I recently went through an upgrade from Ubuntu 7.10 to 8.04 on my ThinkPad >> T61which went smoothly (or so I thought). After a couple of days I wanted >> to >> try out a XubunTOS LiveCD (without any installation) and when I rebooted >> back to Ubuntu 8.04 I lost all usage on both my USB Mouse and TrackPoint. >> I brought up update-manager and installed any updates and reinstalled >> anything that had to do with mouse drivers but still no luck. Any ideas on >> what I can do short of a complete reinstallation of Ubuntu 8.04. >> > > -- > -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP http://royalty.mine.nu:81 > > "You're one of those condescending Unix computer users!" > "Here's a nickel, kid. Get yourself a better computer" - Dilbert > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > -- Michael Fisher desNotes@gmail.com Sent from Odessa, Florida, United States --001636c5b356250f35046bc84202 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The reason I inquired whether it got through was because I had not received= anything. I apologize for appearing to be impatient.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 4:34 PM, Eben King &l= t;eben01@verizon.net> w= rote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2009, Micha= el Fisher wrote:

Is my post coming through? Anybody out there?

Yes it came through. =A0Jeez, give people more than half an hour to reply. = Most haven't even checked their mail in that time. =A0I have no idea.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Michael Fisher <desnotes@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 9:39 AM
Subject: Corrupted Mouse Driver
To: SLUG Mailing List <slug@nks.net>


I recently went through an upgrade from Ubuntu 7.10 to 8.04 on my ThinkPad<= br> T61which went smoothly (or so I thought). After a couple of days I wanted t= o
try out a XubunTOS LiveCD (without any installation) and when I rebooted back to Ubuntu 8.04 I lost all usage on both my USB Mouse and TrackPoint. I brought up update-manager and installed any updates and reinstalled
anything that had to do with mouse drivers but still no luck. Any ideas on<= br> what I can do short of a complete reinstallation of Ubuntu 8.04.

--
-eben =A0 QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP =A0 http://royalty.mine.nu:81

=A0 =A0 "You're one of those condescending Unix computer users!&q= uot;
=A0"Here's a nickel, kid. =A0Get yourself a better computer" = - Dilbert
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked
Knowledge Systems (NKS). =A0Views and opinions expressed in messages
posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the
official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees.



--
Michael Fisher
desNotes@gmail.com
Sent from Odessa= , Florida, United States --001636c5b356250f35046bc84202-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sun Jun 7 18:00:16 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57M0Gjo021933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 18:00:16 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n57M0G7q021930 for slug-track29; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 18:00:16 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57M0FrI021926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 18:00:15 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sm.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sm.nks.net [24.73.112.216]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57M0Esr028054 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 18:00:15 -0400 Received: from vms173001pub.verizon.net (vms173001pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.1]) by nks-ma-100-sm.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57LutJi014580 for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 17:56:55 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173001.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KKW003C32AP9OE0@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 16:56:51 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A2C37AC.6000709@verizon.net> Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 17:57:00 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Fwd: Corrupted Mouse Driver References: <3461d5200906070639jf3696a1k360e67a99fad1f3@mail.gmail.com> <3461d5200906071310paeee95ble4282bc81aea1e27@mail.gmail.com> In-reply-to: Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173001pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-2.696, required 6, AWL -2.80, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Eben King wrote: > On Sun, 7 Jun 2009, Michael Fisher wrote: > >> Is my post coming through? Anybody out there? > > Yes it came through. Jeez, give people more than half an hour to reply. > Most haven't even checked their mail in that time. I have no idea. > >> I recently went through an upgrade from Ubuntu 7.10 to 8.04 on my >> ThinkPad T61which went smoothly (or so I thought). After a couple of days I >> wanted to try out a XubunTOS LiveCD (without any installation) and when I rebooted >> back to Ubuntu 8.04 I lost all usage on both my USB Mouse and TrackPoint. >> I brought up update-manager and installed any updates and reinstalled >> anything that had to do with mouse drivers but still no luck. Any >> ideas on what I can do short of a complete reinstallation of Ubuntu 8.04. Hi Michael! Well, it's Sunday and a lot of folks do other things than computer on Sunday. You *could* look at the Ubuntu forums if you really want to. Don't expect too much, though. Ubuntu is keeping a lot of stuff out of ordinary view, have to really dig to get it. Do you remember the posts on dual monitors? It seems that Ubuntu has taken to putting a lot of settings in the kernel and not making much use of the xorg.conf. That said, you could *try* regenerating the xorg.conf, the regenerating command is in the file as a comment. While you are in there, see what it says about your mouse, probably not much. Why did you recently upgrade to 8.04, considering that 8.10 has been superseded by 9.04? I have 9.04, my mouse is fine. YMMV, of course. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sun Jun 7 18:35:09 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57MZ8nr026814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 18:35:08 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n57MZ8HN026811 for slug-track29; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 18:35:08 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57MZ8K2026807 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 18:35:08 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sp.nks.net [24.73.112.219]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57MZ3F9031405 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 18:35:08 -0400 Received: from mail-bw0-f228.google.com (mail-bw0-f228.google.com [209.85.218.228]) by nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57MLsnQ028744 for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 18:21:54 -0400 Received: by bwz28 with SMTP id 28so2832180bwz.13 for ; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 15:21:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=xzj7QKznoqemdmb0b6Kd1xD+m6A9VCyJJV7zbcblArM=; b=Tqq+zY5bCWOSY3smKapZjXFpTBCYwDec2vDsJyq5lS9PinRLUyqqZF4eFbgyX6d5RJ yR6C5hT/AKP/pQdeSnKokN6/Fwu/bwTtMq4DQD1frKCGVhaZeBlQ/326MQTs8zZvvpve oIqfehBVoNRP16/aPoUrQ1gi6IZvBxiBx0p/4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; b=BHnHQkCJmIvFcdik5vR6xG21WnWK/RrxpREycA3DPG18TNqsBrk1dObBuwats4wK+Q T0KFsevRe2CJaNiNSPM5+9o2fE2lHiSBjf5R64k/qsTo/WIKhs96faLQS5b9BbvQ/D4h CFVmlKoxmt+yu3aYsCG99FT89IkoLS5M1NE64= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.103.133 with SMTP id k5mr3529144fao.23.1244413291159; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 15:21:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4A2C37AC.6000709@verizon.net> References: <3461d5200906070639jf3696a1k360e67a99fad1f3@mail.gmail.com> <3461d5200906071310paeee95ble4282bc81aea1e27@mail.gmail.com> <4A2C37AC.6000709@verizon.net> From: Michael Fisher Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 18:21:11 -0400 Message-ID: <3461d5200906071521t75b20239k9ee8a70fe3c6015a@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [SLUG] Fwd: Corrupted Mouse Driver To: slug@nks.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5a7582c60aa046bc98c4b X-HELO: mail-bw0-f228.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.752, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAD_STRING_gmail_PUNCdot_com 0.65, BAYES_50 0.00, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net --001636c5a7582c60aa046bc98c4b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 5:57 PM, Pete Theisen wrote: > Eben King wrote: > >> On Sun, 7 Jun 2009, Michael Fisher wrote: >> >> Is my post coming through? Anybody out there? >>> >> >> Yes it came through. Jeez, give people more than half an hour to reply. >> Most haven't even checked their mail in that time. I have no idea. >> >> I recently went through an upgrade from Ubuntu 7.10 to 8.04 on my >>> ThinkPad T61which went smoothly (or so I thought). After a couple of days I >>> wanted to try out a XubunTOS LiveCD (without any installation) and when I >>> rebooted >>> back to Ubuntu 8.04 I lost all usage on both my USB Mouse and TrackPoint. >>> I brought up update-manager and installed any updates and reinstalled >>> anything that had to do with mouse drivers but still no luck. Any ideas >>> on what I can do short of a complete reinstallation of Ubuntu 8.04. >>> >> > Hi Michael! > > Well, it's Sunday and a lot of folks do other things than computer on > Sunday. You *could* look at the Ubuntu forums if you really want to. Don't > expect too much, though. Ubuntu is keeping a lot of stuff out of ordinary > view, have to really dig to get it. > > Do you remember the posts on dual monitors? It seems that Ubuntu has taken > to putting a lot of settings in the kernel and not making much use of the > xorg.conf. That said, you could *try* regenerating the xorg.conf, the > regenerating command is in the file as a comment. While you are in there, > see what it says about your mouse, probably not much. > > Why did you recently upgrade to 8.04, considering that 8.10 has been > superseded by 9.04? I have 9.04, my mouse is fine. YMMV, of course. > -- > Regards, > > Pete > http://pete-theisen.com/ > http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > Thanks for your response Pete. It looks like I am pretty much hosed on this one. I upgraded to 8.04 because it was slated as the next upgrade progression. I believe 8.04 is a LTS. I looked at Xorg and even tried a recent version with no luck. I will look elsewhere or probably just do a clean install. Also, just to be clear again, I was not impatient about a response. I was asking because my post didn't come back to me. However, since it appears I've over stayed my welcome with some of the residents here I will move on. Thanks again, Mike -- Michael Fisher desNotes@gmail.com --001636c5a7582c60aa046bc98c4b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 5:57 PM, Pete The= isen <petet= heisen@verizon.net> wrote:
Eben King wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2009, Michael Fisher wrote:

Is my post coming through? Anybody out there?

Yes it came through. =A0Jeez, give people more than half an hour to reply. = Most haven't even checked their mail in that time. =A0I have no idea.
I recently went through an upgrade from Ubuntu 7.10 to 8.04 on my ThinkPad = T61which went smoothly (or so I thought). After a couple of days I wanted t= o try out a XubunTOS LiveCD (without any installation) and when I rebooted<= br> back to Ubuntu 8.04 I lost all usage on both my USB Mouse and TrackPoint. I brought up update-manager and installed any updates and reinstalled
anything that had to do with mouse drivers but still no luck. Any ideas on = what I can do short of a complete reinstallation of Ubuntu 8.04.

Hi Michael!

Well, it's Sunday and a lot of folks do other things than computer on S= unday. You *could* look at the Ubuntu forums if you really want to. Don'= ;t expect too much, though. Ubuntu is keeping a lot of stuff out of ordinar= y view, have to really dig to get it.

Do you remember the posts on dual monitors? It seems that Ubuntu has taken = to putting a lot of settings in the kernel and not making much use of the x= org.conf. That said, you could *try* regenerating the xorg.conf, the regene= rating command is in the file as a comment. While you are in there, see wha= t it says about your mouse, probably not much.

Why did you recently upgrade to 8.04, considering that 8.10 has been supers= eded by 9.04? I have 9.04, my mouse is fine. YMMV, of course.
--
Regards,

Pete
http://pete-theisen.= com/
http://elect-p= ete-theisen.com/

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked
Knowledge Systems (NKS). =A0Views and opinions expressed in messages
posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the
official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees.

Thanks for your response Pete. It looks = like I am pretty much hosed on this one. I upgraded to 8.04 because it was = slated as the next upgrade progression. I believe 8.04 is a LTS. I looked a= t Xorg and even tried a recent version with no luck.

I will look elsewhere or probably just do a clean install. A= lso, just to be clear again, I was not impatient about a response. I was as= king because my post didn't come back to me. However, since it appears = I've over stayed my welcome with some of the residents here I will move= on.

Thanks again,

Mike

--
Michael Fisher
de= sNotes@gmail.com
--001636c5a7582c60aa046bc98c4b-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sun Jun 7 19:13:34 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57NDY45032194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 19:13:34 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n57NDYP2032191 for slug-track29; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 19:13:34 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57NDYTt032187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 19:13:34 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-c.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-c.nks.net [24.73.112.81]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57NDX1Z003298 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 19:13:33 -0400 Received: from vms173007pub.verizon.net (vms173007pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.7]) by nks-ma-100-c.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57N5PVx021188 for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 19:05:25 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173007.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KKW006ZM5GU8NE1@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 18:05:20 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A2C47BA.9090508@verizon.net> Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 19:05:30 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Fwd: Corrupted Mouse Driver References: <3461d5200906070639jf3696a1k360e67a99fad1f3@mail.gmail.com> <3461d5200906071310paeee95ble4282bc81aea1e27@mail.gmail.com> <4A2C37AC.6000709@verizon.net> <3461d5200906071521t75b20239k9ee8a70fe3c6015a@mail.gmail.com> In-reply-to: <3461d5200906071521t75b20239k9ee8a70fe3c6015a@mail.gmail.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173007pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.955, required 6, AWL 0.85, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Michael Fisher wrote: > Thanks for your response Pete. It looks like I am pretty much hosed on > this one. I upgraded to 8.04 because it was slated as the next upgrade > progression. I believe 8.04 is a LTS. I looked at Xorg and even tried a > recent version with no luck. > > I will look elsewhere or probably just do a clean install. Also, just to > be clear again, I was not impatient about a response. I was asking > because my post didn't come back to me. However, since it appears I've > over stayed my welcome with some of the residents here I will move on. Hi Michael! No, you don't have to move on, as I said, nobody's listening right now anyway, and we on SLUG are easy to get along with. When you do the clean install, put your data in a seperate directory like ~/hone/data/ or something. That way you can just copy it off and reinstall, just like winders. Should be able to fix it, but they try to make it work automagically so it is hard to figure out. So, just do a clean install. Be daring and go for 8.10, I had good luck with 8.10. Still have my spare box on 8.10. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sun Jun 7 19:44:07 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57Ni7JD004020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 19:44:07 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n57Ni793004017 for slug-track29; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 19:44:07 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57Ni6C6004013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 19:44:06 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-24-zj.lvs.nks.net (nks-ma-24-zj.nks.net [209.34.225.149]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57Ni5OM005158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 19:44:06 -0400 Received: from vms173003pub.verizon.net (vms173003pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.3]) by nks-ma-24-zj.lvs.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n57NeH9W028980 for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 19:40:17 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173003.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KKW00CZ272BBA11@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 18:39:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A2C4FCE.6000603@verizon.net> Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 19:39:58 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Fwd: Corrupted Mouse Driver References: <3461d5200906070639jf3696a1k360e67a99fad1f3@mail.gmail.com> <3461d5200906071310paeee95ble4282bc81aea1e27@mail.gmail.com> <4A2C37AC.6000709@verizon.net> <3461d5200906071521t75b20239k9ee8a70fe3c6015a@mail.gmail.com> <4A2C47BA.9090508@verizon.net> In-reply-to: <4A2C47BA.9090508@verizon.net> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173003pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=2.808, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_60 1.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: ss X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Pete Theisen wrote: > Michael Fisher wrote: > >> Thanks for your response Pete. It looks like I am pretty much hosed on >> this one. I upgraded to 8.04 because it was slated as the next upgrade >> progression. I believe 8.04 is a LTS. I looked at Xorg and even tried >> a recent version with no luck. >> >> I will look elsewhere or probably just do a clean install. Also, just >> to be clear again, I was not impatient about a response. I was asking >> because my post didn't come back to me. However, since it appears I've >> over stayed my welcome with some of the residents here I will move on. > > Hi Michael! > > No, you don't have to move on, as I said, nobody's listening right now > anyway, and we on SLUG are easy to get along with. > > When you do the clean install, put your data in a seperate directory > like ~/hone/data/ or something. That way you can just copy it off and > reinstall, just like winders. > > Should be able to fix it, but they try to make it work automagically so > it is hard to figure out. So, just do a clean install. Be daring and go > for 8.10, I had good luck with 8.10. Still have my spare box on 8.10. > Better make it ~/home/data/. If it is ~/hone/ you'll never find it! -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 8 08:48:04 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n58Cm4bm016625 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 08:48:04 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n58Cm4EL016622 for slug-track29; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 08:48:04 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n58Cm3nV016618 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 08:48:03 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sc.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sc.nks.net [24.73.112.206]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n58Cm2u4019552 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 08:48:03 -0400 Received: from mail-qy0-f204.google.com (mail-qy0-f204.google.com [209.85.221.204]) by nks-ma-100-sc.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n58CkrQT020413 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 08:46:54 -0400 Received: by qyk42 with SMTP id 42so3947255qyk.7 for ; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 05:46:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=kXncHfNxcEnGUWl8FzrZsA/dyxnAw7zN78m6Gjnh/GU=; b=MSSGTCU54/xEVXKQrexIrQZCO/2hyZTdulMYHm2xVUXq71LWDdykINh+Xpo1mVTFdL oUM/X97gnxalgkgP0Bi9YTRFFhbTBJqH4nlD0198YpBvA6Qx9+XtvWKjlDNwRKJFjH74 WUAILVOBC27uqRUIJ7Drc+3tgN3OWZ+nEv1pU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=qHHRfAb+t82Le4/Vy/hjuH6FJ1VsaaVQzYv4J7TCcffYTfGrfwlXyXo7nj8PYAzf/M C0oKODSCX9ZLvzp/oIoiCtZGNpRt2yM8Iod6F/Tely8mI1mDTBy7FWNmrFYvz46M4+Pd PyDsAjicu7fD+yidgm+kaDr901EQ+50LsyiZU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.94.139 with SMTP id z11mr148863qcm.6.1244465213453; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 05:46:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3461d5200906070639jf3696a1k360e67a99fad1f3@mail.gmail.com> References: <3461d5200906070639jf3696a1k360e67a99fad1f3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 08:46:53 -0400 Message-ID: <125d27dd0906080546h46aaa4c2q2f49b288b224504d@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [SLUG] Corrupted Mouse Driver From: Daniel Jarboe To: slug@nks.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636426d49fbb6ac046bd5a2db X-HELO: mail-qy0-f204.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.42, required 6, AWL -2.64, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71, HTML_10_20 1.35, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net --001636426d49fbb6ac046bd5a2db Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I recently went through an upgrade from Ubuntu 7.10 to 8.04 on my > ThinkPad T61which went smoothly (or so I thought). After a couple of > days I wanted to try out a XubunTOS LiveCD (without any installation) > and when I rebooted back to Ubuntu 8.04 I lost all usage on both my > USB Mouse and TrackPoint. How do you like your T61? Thinkwiki is a great resource for Thinkpad owners looking to get every feature working just right. This might be helpful: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Installing_Ubuntu_8.04_(Hardy_Heron)_on_a_ThinkPad_T61#TrackPoint That said, Ubuntu support for the Thinkpads has gotten much better since 8.04. I did a 9.04 install on an X61s and was very impressed. Absolutely everything worked out of the box with the exception of trackpoint scrolling which was a simple matter of adding the HAL FDI policy, and Hard Drive Active Protection System that uses the internal accelerometer (required alternate kernel module and hdapsd). Good luck, ~ Daniel --001636426d49fbb6ac046bd5a2db Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I recently went through an upgrade from Ubuntu 7.10 to 8.04 on my
&= gt; ThinkPad T61which went smoothly (or so I thought). After a couple of> days I wanted to try out a XubunTOS LiveCD (without any installation)=
> and when I rebooted back to Ubuntu 8.04 I lost all usage on both my> USB Mouse and TrackPoint.

How do you like your T61?=A0 Thinkwiki is a great resource for Thin= kpad owners looking to get every feature working just right.=A0 This might = be helpful:

http://www.thinkwiki.or= g/wiki/Installing_Ubuntu_8.04_(Hardy_Heron)_on_a_ThinkPad_T61#TrackPoint

That said, Ubuntu support for the Thinkpads has gotten much better sinc= e 8.04.=A0 I did a 9.04 install on an X61s and was very impressed.=A0 Absol= utely everything worked out of the box with the exception of trackpoint scr= olling which was a simple matter of adding the HAL FDI policy, and Hard Dri= ve Active Protection System that uses the internal accelerometer (required = alternate kernel module and hdapsd).

Good luck,
~ Daniel
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From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 8 20:40:14 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n590eEE8019240 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:40:14 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n590eE6K019237 for slug-track29; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:40:14 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n590eEcs019233 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:40:14 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tg.nks.net [24.73.112.233]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n590eDuM006404 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:40:14 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-32.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-32.bluehost.com [69.89.18.152]) by nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n590dact007947 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:39:37 -0400 Received: (qmail 15478 invoked by uid 0); 9 Jun 2009 00:39:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2009 00:39:34 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=rL7kg7/+PSRhqHLbyssA3jczu2GVaIdqx4IoHddFloDvL3XljjZfE+PiGLmUOw0jrOM0Om8PfvjgdUsDe5LVFBZhmOtAVhNQGivV7Rwyg4AzAC7uppYaauKN09Q6qt7q; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MDpNG-0008ED-GX for slug@nks.net; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:39:34 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5CD84190883F for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:39:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A2DAF4B.3010902@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:39:39 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: [SLUG] Legacy application in VB6 (.com) - anyone know how to port this one? X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E X-Stationery: 0.4.8.14 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-32.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=3.686, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_youhavewon 0.25, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, NO_DNS_FOR_FROM 3.20) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: sss X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Here's one from the way back machine: I have a client with a custom (I have all the source code) legacy VB6/SQL Server application. I am trying to rid him of "that evil OS", but this "custom" application won't run in Wine (yet). It also depends on this older version of SQL, and I need it to work with MySQL or PgSql. Does anyone have an idea of how I could port this "thing" off Windows and on to our favorite operating system? (where users could then VNC into the silly thing and still use it) Mono won't work - the "thing" is written in .com, and Mono only supports .Net. I am willing to cough up cash for software to get this thing out, so if you know a proprietary BASIC compiler that deals with .com, and compiles it straight for Linux, I am all ears. I don't want to recode this whole thing - it's one of those "internal" applications that has evolved over time, with logic all over the place, few comments in the code, and little to no database documentation. The SQL code was "tacked-on" later by another programmer, and I know I will have to change the queries. Fortunately, it looks like the queries were simply substituted in for file operations, so I think I will be able to replicate the database logic without too much trouble. The office will be moving to a new solution within two years, so I only need it working for now. (Of course, that's probably what the last guy said to himself, and here I am working with his code.) I Googled, but did not find what I am looking for. Any Ideas? Cheers, Scott Grizzard - ---- scott@scottgrizzard.com http://scottgrizzard.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkotr0sACgkQARR1QiSWUG7mDQCbBTR8pp55NoiZAhnCTrKDQ+H6 KVwAoJF1KO8L6TZYT3gpjTGgxDWwVV5q =q6qH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 8 20:54:23 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n590sNIx021192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:54:23 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n590sNSr021189 for slug-track29; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:54:23 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n590sMin021185 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:54:23 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sp.nks.net [24.73.112.219]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n590sLQO007227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:54:22 -0400 Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.121]) by nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n590qcKM025970 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:52:38 -0400 Received: from Darth ([68.205.9.122]) by cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090609005237524.OFYC2045@cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com> for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 00:52:37 +0000 From: "Ken Elliott" To: References: <4A2DAF4B.3010902@scottgrizzard.com> In-Reply-To: <4A2DAF4B.3010902@scottgrizzard.com> Subject: RE: [SLUG] Legacy application in VB6 (.com) - anyone know how to port this one? Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:52:59 -0400 Message-ID: <006401c9e89c$a2d91e10$e88b5a30$@rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acnomz26uARGmnreTrWzmBmiCFQF4wAATGRg Content-Language: en-us X-HELO: cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-4.199, required 6, AWL -4.55, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_youhavewon 0.25) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Real Basic http://www.linux.com/archive/articles/34497 http://www.realsoftware.com/ It will likely need a bit of work to port, but it might be worth a shot. I'd rather turn it into a web app so it runs via a browser. That way they can run any OS they want. Ken Elliott ===================== -----Original Message----- From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Scott Grizzard Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:40 PM To: slug@nks.net Subject: [SLUG] Legacy application in VB6 (.com) - anyone know how to port this one? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Here's one from the way back machine: I have a client with a custom (I have all the source code) legacy VB6/SQL Server application. I am trying to rid him of "that evil OS", but this "custom" application won't run in Wine (yet). It also depends on this older version of SQL, and I need it to work with MySQL or PgSql. Does anyone have an idea of how I could port this "thing" off Windows and on to our favorite operating system? (where users could then VNC into the silly thing and still use it) Mono won't work - the "thing" is written in .com, and Mono only supports .Net. I am willing to cough up cash for software to get this thing out, so if you know a proprietary BASIC compiler that deals with .com, and compiles it straight for Linux, I am all ears. I don't want to recode this whole thing - it's one of those "internal" applications that has evolved over time, with logic all over the place, few comments in the code, and little to no database documentation. The SQL code was "tacked-on" later by another programmer, and I know I will have to change the queries. Fortunately, it looks like the queries were simply substituted in for file operations, so I think I will be able to replicate the database logic without too much trouble. The office will be moving to a new solution within two years, so I only need it working for now. (Of course, that's probably what the last guy said to himself, and here I am working with his code.) I Googled, but did not find what I am looking for. Any Ideas? Cheers, Scott Grizzard - ---- scott@scottgrizzard.com http://scottgrizzard.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkotr0sACgkQARR1QiSWUG7mDQCbBTR8pp55NoiZAhnCTrKDQ+H6 KVwAoJF1KO8L6TZYT3gpjTGgxDWwVV5q =q6qH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 8 21:02:06 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n59125FR022339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:02:05 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n59125KH022336 for slug-track29; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:02:05 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n59124Ui022332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:02:04 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tg.nks.net [24.73.112.233]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n59124ge007871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:02:04 -0400 Received: from linux.magna.net (mail.magna.net [67.78.158.35]) by nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n59116nt009945 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:01:07 -0400 Received: from mail.magna.net (mail.magna.net [192.168.10.144]) by linux.magna.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E57B4EC28A for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:01:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:01:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Forte To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Legacy application in VB6 (.com) - anyone know how to port this one? In-Reply-To: <4A2DAF4B.3010902@scottgrizzard.com> Message-ID: References: <4A2DAF4B.3010902@scottgrizzard.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LRH 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-HELO: linux.magna.net X-Mismatched-Host: True X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.201, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAD_WORD_timeshare 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_TimeshareIntoCash 0.50, BP_youhavewon 0.25, NKS_MISMATCHED_HOST 0.25) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Is it a GUI? I use Bascom compiled basic, works great, but not sure where to buy new copies of it. Jim On Mon, 8 Jun 2009, Scott Grizzard wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Here's one from the way back machine: > > I have a client with a custom (I have all the source code) legacy > VB6/SQL Server application. I am trying to rid him of "that evil OS", > but this "custom" application won't run in Wine (yet). It also depends > on this older version of SQL, and I need it to work with MySQL or PgSql. > > Does anyone have an idea of how I could port this "thing" off Windows > and on to our favorite operating system? (where users could then VNC > into the silly thing and still use it) Mono won't work - the "thing" is > written in .com, and Mono only supports .Net. > > I am willing to cough up cash for software to get this thing out, so if > you know a proprietary BASIC compiler that deals with .com, and compiles > it straight for Linux, I am all ears. > > I don't want to recode this whole thing - it's one of those "internal" > applications that has evolved over time, with logic all over the place, > few comments in the code, and little to no database documentation. > > The SQL code was "tacked-on" later by another programmer, and I know I > will have to change the queries. Fortunately, it looks like the queries > were simply substituted in for file operations, so I think I will be > able to replicate the database logic without too much trouble. > > The office will be moving to a new solution within two years, so I only > need it working for now. (Of course, that's probably what the last guy > said to himself, and here I am working with his code.) > > I Googled, but did not find what I am looking for. Any Ideas? > > Cheers, > > Scott Grizzard > - ---- > scott@scottgrizzard.com > http://scottgrizzard.com > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAkotr0sACgkQARR1QiSWUG7mDQCbBTR8pp55NoiZAhnCTrKDQ+H6 > KVwAoJF1KO8L6TZYT3gpjTGgxDWwVV5q > =q6qH > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > -- --------------------------------------------------------------- Yours Truly James Forte, Magna Timeshare Software http://www.magna.net/ mailto:James@Magna.Net 1465 South Fort Harrison Ave#207, Clearwater FL 33756 East Coast 407-352-2402 West Coast 415-367-7496 UK +44 80 8178 8506 TrustFax:866-752-3073 THIS COMMUNICATION IS ONLY INTENDED FOR THE RECIPIENT(S) ABOVE. PLEASE DISCARD IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS IN ERROR. ----------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 8 21:10:48 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n591AmqW023539 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:10:48 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n591AmM9023536 for slug-track29; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:10:48 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n591Am2H023532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:10:48 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tc.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tc.nks.net [24.73.112.229]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n591Alnx008492 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:10:48 -0400 Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.122]) by nks-ma-100-tc.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5919iG3010299 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:09:44 -0400 Received: from Darth ([68.205.9.122]) by cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090609010943995.OVAT2045@cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com> for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 01:09:43 +0000 From: "Ken Elliott" To: References: <4A2DAF4B.3010902@scottgrizzard.com> In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [SLUG] Legacy application in VB6 (.com) - anyone know how to port this one? Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:10:06 -0400 Message-ID: <006501c9e89f$06afabf0$140f03d0$@rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acnonfqu9HYk23qXRQuyx2j4RRAovAAAPaUQ Content-Language: en-us X-HELO: cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.401, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAD_WORD_timeshare 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_TimeshareIntoCash 0.50, BP_followthislink 0.45, BP_youhavewon 0.25) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net >> Is it a GUI? Did you follow the link? Ken Elliott ===================== -----Original Message----- From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Jim Forte Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 9:01 PM To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Legacy application in VB6 (.com) - anyone know how to port this one? Is it a GUI? I use Bascom compiled basic, works great, but not sure where to buy new copies of it. Jim On Mon, 8 Jun 2009, Scott Grizzard wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Here's one from the way back machine: > > I have a client with a custom (I have all the source code) legacy > VB6/SQL Server application. I am trying to rid him of "that evil OS", > but this "custom" application won't run in Wine (yet). It also depends > on this older version of SQL, and I need it to work with MySQL or PgSql. > > Does anyone have an idea of how I could port this "thing" off Windows > and on to our favorite operating system? (where users could then VNC > into the silly thing and still use it) Mono won't work - the "thing" is > written in .com, and Mono only supports .Net. > > I am willing to cough up cash for software to get this thing out, so if > you know a proprietary BASIC compiler that deals with .com, and compiles > it straight for Linux, I am all ears. > > I don't want to recode this whole thing - it's one of those "internal" > applications that has evolved over time, with logic all over the place, > few comments in the code, and little to no database documentation. > > The SQL code was "tacked-on" later by another programmer, and I know I > will have to change the queries. Fortunately, it looks like the queries > were simply substituted in for file operations, so I think I will be > able to replicate the database logic without too much trouble. > > The office will be moving to a new solution within two years, so I only > need it working for now. (Of course, that's probably what the last guy > said to himself, and here I am working with his code.) > > I Googled, but did not find what I am looking for. Any Ideas? > > Cheers, > > Scott Grizzard > - ---- > scott@scottgrizzard.com > http://scottgrizzard.com > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAkotr0sACgkQARR1QiSWUG7mDQCbBTR8pp55NoiZAhnCTrKDQ+H6 > KVwAoJF1KO8L6TZYT3gpjTGgxDWwVV5q > =q6qH > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > -- --------------------------------------------------------------- Yours Truly James Forte, Magna Timeshare Software http://www.magna.net/ mailto:James@Magna.Net 1465 South Fort Harrison Ave#207, Clearwater FL 33756 East Coast 407-352-2402 West Coast 415-367-7496 UK +44 80 8178 8506 TrustFax:866-752-3073 THIS COMMUNICATION IS ONLY INTENDED FOR THE RECIPIENT(S) ABOVE. PLEASE DISCARD IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS IN ERROR. ----------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 8 21:11:06 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n591B6UO023590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:11:06 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n591B6lt023587 for slug-track29; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:11:06 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n591B64p023583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:11:06 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-a.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-a.nks.net [24.73.112.79]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n591B56l008521 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:11:06 -0400 Received: from vms173007pub.verizon.net (vms173007pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.7]) by nks-ma-100-a.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n59191Y5020367 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:09:01 -0400 Received: from news.home ([96.243.182.3]) by vms173007.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KKY001I35SL7CX3@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:07:33 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 21:07:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Eben King X-X-Sender: eben@pc.home To: SLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [SLUG] Legacy application in VB6 (.com) - anyone know how to port this one? In-reply-to: <4A2DAF4B.3010902@scottgrizzard.com> Message-id: References: <4A2DAF4B.3010902@scottgrizzard.com> User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (DEB 882 2007-12-20) X-GetARealMailreader: I have a client with a custom (I have all the source code) legacy > VB6/SQL Server application. I am trying to rid him of "that evil OS", > but this "custom" application won't run in Wine (yet). It also depends > on this older version of SQL, and I need it to work with MySQL or PgSql. > > Does anyone have an idea of how I could port this "thing" off Windows > and on to our favorite operating system? (where users could then VNC > into the silly thing and still use it) Mono won't work - the "thing" is > written in .com, and Mono only supports .Net. You could try VMware Player. It's free, and there are instructions out there for giving it an arbitrary disk file. Since it emulates a real x59 box, it's most likely compatible with about everything. -- -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81 TAURUS: You will never find true happiness - what you gonna do, cry about it? The stars predict tomorrow you'll wake up, do a bunch of stuff and then go back to sleep. -- Weird Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 8 21:46:45 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n591kilI028597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:46:45 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n591kiv6028594 for slug-track29; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:46:44 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n591kioW028590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:46:44 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-i.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-i.nks.net [24.73.112.87]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n591kijO010806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:46:44 -0400 Received: from mail-bw0-f228.google.com (mail-bw0-f228.google.com [209.85.218.228]) by nks-ma-100-i.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n591jmFN004855 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:45:49 -0400 Received: by bwz28 with SMTP id 28so3698204bwz.13 for ; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:45:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=kubMHmHCrxPHcuWP6KdYU5r2WU6c/77fh9Jyf/xRkMI=; b=k8dQwsD+prOrik6Q2sg/ZllUOyRxGucwgm6dk92iwRoBa+lt7czsCv5rvIPO+BskUG Hl5zSgw+WzJJK2R1SgfwR0NpOcFJliq1SSAjeqhJXISJ+etBrCmdKiDRBf73uwJfYgZV BxMUdXkeBe4esSumAUjGte3oOfYsg/R4k7xRU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=SNoX34ZEiZn1qXPDhIDyA+dZKDa0YQyX3I5STHvYDmzwYweDFlGzk13pj+Uxxe3gYB 8Jz+wxPUk+h+mwBlHYXtb6C5y2fKJg55v0A2MBX1OXSy7RaI93CNgEiarjQazfRzSJA5 +ZJxlj+i2eXCXB/YY5c9s9XqFFXP3jFPMOJ/w= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.63.20 with SMTP id z20mr7245881bkh.200.1244511947753; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:45:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200906062344.28883.rnr@sanctum.com> References: <200906062344.28883.rnr@sanctum.com> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:45:47 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [SLUG] streaming audio From: William Coulter To: slug@nks.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5bb89908ab5046be08478 X-HELO: mail-bw0-f228.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=2.835, required 6, AWL 0.07, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_THISISNOTABILL 0.45, BP_clickhere 0.50, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: ss X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net --001636c5bb89908ab5046be08478 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know that I am late to this discussion, but what web site are you trying to listen to? William On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Bob Stia wrote: > Hello Sluggers, > > Trying to listen to streaming audio from a local radio station on line with > Firefox. When I click on "Listen" I get the following message and do not > know > what it is telling me. I checked preferences in Firefox but did not find > anything appropriate. > > /tmp/GenerateASX2-1.asp could not be opened, because the associated helper > application does not exist. Change the association in your preferences. > > Anybody know/ explain to me? > > Bob S > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > -- Every bill here on out should have the approximate number of jobs it is going to create and then every year or two have an audit of the actual number of jobs created. Build here, build now...Buy American made. --001636c5bb89908ab5046be08478 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I know that I am late to this discussion, but what web site are you trying = to listen to?=A0

William

On Sat, = Jun 6, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Bob Stia <rnr@sanctum.com> wrote:
Hello Sluggers,
Trying to listen to streaming audio from a local radio station on line with=
Firefox. When I click on "Listen" I get the following message and= do not know
what it is telling me. I checked preferences in Firefox but did not find anything appropriate.

/tmp/GenerateASX2-1.asp could not be opened, because the associated helper<= br> application does not exist. Change the association in your preferences.

Anybody know/ explain to me?

Bob S
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked
Knowledge Systems (NKS). =A0Views and opinions expressed in messages
posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the
official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees.



--
Every bill here on out = should have the approximate number of jobs it is going to create and then e= very year or two have an audit of the actual number of jobs created.

Build here, build now...Buy American made.

--001636c5bb89908ab5046be08478-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 8 22:02:39 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5922co7030857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 22:02:38 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5922cbJ030854 for slug-track29; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 22:02:38 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5922bTN030850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 22:02:38 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sd.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sd.nks.net [24.73.112.207]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5922bNx011999 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 22:02:37 -0400 Received: from mail-bw0-f228.google.com (mail-bw0-f228.google.com [209.85.218.228]) by nks-ma-100-sd.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5920KND007755 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 22:00:21 -0400 Received: by bwz28 with SMTP id 28so3702188bwz.13 for ; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 19:00:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=VxoMDE+pmTZ6NwEEvdXOz6ThR9erqm8OBeO8YzH8SjY=; b=T9cpKNqeqI6vOCoUcpEKNOVlzLeXQxtr2B+o/jYjIAxv0XiSnLZ4oQYP8dd9nj9roo zFHw837h9AgtzGukSB2e/71qzWVOkwo9s9ZAVNsSi1DQcqyPs9lNVnMJ5gQB6tNN1UDo qLSwqCxEmIVt0ilBaurkA7QD+bzE3bVnxzC+M= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=ruEFENSrIWlZq2lvWtYM3S6qRGBkeMzAUBbMF7s+fxETuufe3jvXx8Bz2k2D5HMbvM TiJ/zCCkOu6o9JNB5PxAr7E5nWDohO5ekVvDCyl/Kzx/r+QVMP4uLdSnfKmrPbYydmql FyzJ2LmyRoMWdqL/+02X6Unw3hwQFwpN1+AFk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.54.4 with SMTP id o4mr7302356bkg.10.1244512819778; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 19:00:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 22:00:19 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: [SLUG] linux dvdr From: William Coulter To: slug@nks.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5a9528a9677046be0b8f4 X-HELO: mail-bw0-f228.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.797, required 6, BAYES_50 0.00, HTML_00_10 0.80, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net --001636c5a9528a9677046be0b8f4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My dvdr died a few weeks ago and I am missing being able to record programs. I have seen prices for a replacement dvdr and I can't believe the prices. I know that I can build a MythTV box but I don't have the parts for one and really not interested in doing that. What I am interested in is a box that is ready to go with Linux on it. Is there something out there? William -- Every bill here on out should have the approximate number of jobs it is going to create and then every year or two have an audit of the actual number of jobs created. Build here, build now...Buy American made. --001636c5a9528a9677046be0b8f4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My dvdr died a few weeks ago and I am missing being able to record programs= .=A0 I have seen prices for a replacement dvdr and I can't believe the = prices.=A0 I know that I can build a MythTV box but I don't have the pa= rts for one and really not interested in doing that.=A0 What I am intereste= d in is a box that is ready to go with Linux on it.=A0 Is there something o= ut there?

William

--
Every bill here on out should have = the approximate number of jobs it is going to create and then every year or= two have an audit of the actual number of jobs created.

Build here,= build now...Buy American made.

--001636c5a9528a9677046be0b8f4-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 8 22:51:59 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n592pxg2005302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 22:51:59 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n592pxFq005299 for slug-track29; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 22:51:59 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n592pxSN005295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 22:51:59 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tk.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tk.nks.net [24.73.112.237]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n592pwiU014980 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 22:51:59 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-107.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-107.bluehost.com [69.89.22.7]) by nks-ma-100-tk.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n592mndf029405 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 22:48:50 -0400 Received: (qmail 27855 invoked by uid 0); 9 Jun 2009 02:48:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy3.bluehost.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2009 02:48:49 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=IXFGhWup0bRkNoqsRE33Cj9LqWI9hS5e1JAbMt7U3oAJrEsbrPpJC7xfc9NLk47nDZA0EYOt552lz+kgMHK8Yv7DXkwrVRhYqQQA3RIVBq6LC8ceosQekBH/ARNEeUT2; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MDrOL-0005Yo-7N for slug@nks.net; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:48:49 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 83A6A190883F for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 22:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A2DCD97.5020600@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 22:48:55 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Legacy application in VB6 (.com) - anyone know how to port this one? References: <4A2DAF4B.3010902@scottgrizzard.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E X-Stationery: 0.4.8.14 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-107.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.3, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_40 -0.18, BP_youhavewon 0.25, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 That is a possible solution, but I have to go hunt down a non-oem version of whichever SQL server it was, and have to purchase another Windows server license. That may come out to be cheaper, but I'd rather not do that if it is possible. - - Scott Grizzard scott@scottgrizzard.com http://www.scottgrizzard.com/ Eben King wrote: > On Mon, 8 Jun 2009, Scott Grizzard wrote: > >> I have a client with a custom (I have all the source code) legacy >> VB6/SQL Server application. I am trying to rid him of "that evil OS", >> but this "custom" application won't run in Wine (yet). It also depends >> on this older version of SQL, and I need it to work with MySQL or PgSql. >> >> Does anyone have an idea of how I could port this "thing" off Windows >> and on to our favorite operating system? (where users could then VNC >> into the silly thing and still use it) Mono won't work - the "thing" is >> written in .com, and Mono only supports .Net. > > You could try VMware Player. It's free, and there are instructions out > there for giving it an arbitrary disk file. Since it emulates a real > x59 box, it's most likely compatible with about everything. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkotzZcACgkQARR1QiSWUG7fsACeNSM3E6h5t4AA2wmuP0MmgsW1 1lgAnAmfddnRTFgsT9P4Fv4Mhq9gIkPA =V115 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 9 02:43:06 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n596h5CW005233 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 02:43:05 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n596h5YA005230 for slug-track29; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 02:43:05 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n596h4vA005215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 02:43:04 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tc.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tc.nks.net [24.73.112.229]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n596h3ig031247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 02:43:04 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-310.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-310.bluehost.com [67.222.54.3]) by nks-ma-100-tc.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n596fhpB007997 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 02:41:44 -0400 Received: (qmail 26078 invoked by uid 0); 9 Jun 2009 06:41:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy6.bluehost.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2009 06:41:42 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=Ih3+1oFx41ae/Ga0KKSWnzlaR505/OHabfkRjePcLHwWuRZ0nB8H8o51glRQKjcylCo1DPTnrkktJ7S4O6Xnd3hJQkQGYGAy6Lwz3WAOZD8g1ggAkcrmmq5ScvAN2t0C; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MDv1i-0007Cq-FZ for slug@nks.net; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 00:41:42 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1C38A190883F for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 02:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A2E042D.7080501@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 02:41:49 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Legacy application in VB6 (.com) - anyone know how to port this one? References: <4A2DAF4B.3010902@scottgrizzard.com> <006401c9e89c$a2d91e10$e88b5a30$@rr.com> In-Reply-To: <006401c9e89c$a2d91e10$e88b5a30$@rr.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E X-Stationery: 0.4.8.14 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-310.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.936, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_iamyearsold 0.25, BP_youhavewon 0.25, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, J_CHICKENPOX_48 0.60, J_CHICKENPOX_55 0.60) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Ohh, RealBasic looks like it might work - how did I not find this? My client's new server is 64-bit, and Real Basic only supports 32 bit - guess I'll have to document those installs... Oh crud - it won't open the project file. There is a converter online, but the person selling it has stopped selling it. I hate this project! ...and my dock just crashed... oh wait... it was just hung for a moment... AvantWM on KDE... full of surprises, but very cool. Okay, assuming that I can get the client portion of the application working in wine (I just found an old copy of VB6 in the junk drawer - not kidding), there is a version of the odbc driver that will work in VB6 and connect it to MySQL using the old ActiveX data object thing. However, if I connect VB6 to MySQL, I believe the connection will be unencrypted (which is always how you want to send privileged data through a network). Anyone have any ideas how to TRANSPARENTLY authenticate and encrypt connections from Linux and XP clients to a Linux+MySQL server? If I tell these people to fire up putty every time, it won't be a pretty picture. The problem is... well... read: > lblMsg.Caption = " Verifying UserID and Password." > rstE.Source = "SELECT * FROM Users WHERE UserID = '" & UCase(txtLOGID) & "'" > rstE.Open ... > If txtPass <> Trim(rstE.Fields("password")) Or rstE!inactive = True Then > lblMsg.Caption = "Invalid UserID or Password." > cmdCncl.Enabled = True > Exit Sub Yeah... WTFF?... the sever trusts the client... we all know how well that works... Here's what needs to happen: I need to authenticate the users that are logging on when the connection is made, before the application is allowed to query the server. I need that authentication to be encrypted, and all traffic between the server to be encrypted. I can either: a) add every user in the system as a mysql user, use that username and password to make the server connection, and break all of the admin tools built into the system. Then, I can just encrypt the whole thing in MySQL's SSL (assuming ODBC will do this). b) Authenticate the user against the users table in the database first using a hardcoded, auth only user, and then tell MySQL to trust the connection (don't know how to do this - maybe with a method or trigger?). c) Use PostgresQL, which allows authentication against Unix accounts. d) Make all clients VNC the server, and then trust the application as it does now. e) Hard code a password in the client and pray? I'm an IT and web guy, and this is a desktop application. How do you authenticate client applications directly to a MySQL database without creating new mysql users and breaking the App? Does anyone have any other ideas? Scott Grizzard scott@scottgrizzard.com http://www.scottgrizzard.com/ PS: Ken, you are totally right that this needs to be a web application - it solves EVERY problem in the book. If I had the time, I'd fire up the Google Web Toolkit and rewrite the entire application in Java, and run it on a GlassFish server. I know they won't pay me for the 160+ hours it would take to do a full rewrite, but if they had handed me a stack of specs as specs, instead of a pile of source code, I would probably do just that and AfferoPL the whole, new application. However, so many people have touched this thing, and I have seen the source code, that I am afraid the ownership issue is a little murky. Ken Elliott wrote: > Real Basic > http://www.linux.com/archive/articles/34497 > > http://www.realsoftware.com/ > > It will likely need a bit of work to port, but it might be worth a shot. > I'd rather turn it into a web app so it runs via a browser. That way they > can run any OS they want. > > Ken Elliott > ===================== > > > -----Original Message----- > From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Scott Grizzard > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:40 PM > To: slug@nks.net > Subject: [SLUG] Legacy application in VB6 (.com) - anyone know how to port > this one? > > Here's one from the way back machine: > > I have a client with a custom (I have all the source code) legacy > VB6/SQL Server application. I am trying to rid him of "that evil OS", > but this "custom" application won't run in Wine (yet). It also depends > on this older version of SQL, and I need it to work with MySQL or PgSql. > > Does anyone have an idea of how I could port this "thing" off Windows > and on to our favorite operating system? (where users could then VNC > into the silly thing and still use it) Mono won't work - the "thing" is > written in .com, and Mono only supports .Net. > > I am willing to cough up cash for software to get this thing out, so if > you know a proprietary BASIC compiler that deals with .com, and compiles > it straight for Linux, I am all ears. > > I don't want to recode this whole thing - it's one of those "internal" > applications that has evolved over time, with logic all over the place, > few comments in the code, and little to no database documentation. > > The SQL code was "tacked-on" later by another programmer, and I know I > will have to change the queries. Fortunately, it looks like the queries > were simply substituted in for file operations, so I think I will be > able to replicate the database logic without too much trouble. > > The office will be moving to a new solution within two years, so I only > need it working for now. (Of course, that's probably what the last guy > said to himself, and here I am working with his code.) > > I Googled, but did not find what I am looking for. Any Ideas? > > Cheers, > > Scott Grizzard > ---- > scott@scottgrizzard.com > http://scottgrizzard.com - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkouBC0ACgkQARR1QiSWUG4tMQCdEtvU3Kq5zuv/vfksrnJTp2SL BsgAoKLxhRmgNXYUj6QIYZ9Hsidegcm9 =1/kI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 9 09:28:07 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n59DS7HK029774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 09:28:07 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n59DS7Gv029771 for slug-track29; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 09:28:07 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n59DS6NM029767 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 09:28:06 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-so.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-so.nks.net [24.73.112.218]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n59DS6Dk021308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 09:28:06 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-20.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-20.bluehost.com [69.89.20.235]) by nks-ma-100-so.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n59DRCwU023837 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 09:27:13 -0400 Received: (qmail 22350 invoked by uid 0); 9 Jun 2009 13:27:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2009 13:27:12 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=GJqjinwwkFmUZQ60ytMptm98x2QUZuQPjuaj/RbQyF4gjRO7QdRQlWr0E3jWc6Lqle6N8+sdSqEIS3hz1m2m2j8TT3trWDwIdpKbOsJukRMh5+ViV8an410ZHvBfdkTY; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ME1M7-0002Pw-RO for slug@nks.net; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 07:27:12 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 91067190883F for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 09:27:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A2E6338.9020203@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 09:27:20 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Legacy application in VB6 (.com) - anyone know how to port this one? References: <4A2DAF4B.3010902@scottgrizzard.com> <006401c9e89c$a2d91e10$e88b5a30$@rr.com> <4A2E042D.7080501@scottgrizzard.com> In-Reply-To: <4A2E042D.7080501@scottgrizzard.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E X-Stationery: 0.4.8.14 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-20.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.936, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_iamyearsold 0.25, BP_youhavewon 0.25, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, J_CHICKENPOX_48 0.60, J_CHICKENPOX_55 0.60) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Okay, apparently SQL server is configured to only accept connections from authenticated AD users, but one of the users is "FrontDesk", and that account is used by four different people who share three computers up front. That is why the "internal authentication" is there. (Still no encryption). How can I replicate this in MySQL, or can I? I am now well beyond my MySQL-foo. Thanks for helping folks, - - Scott Scott Grizzard wrote: > Ohh, RealBasic looks like it might work - how did I not find this? > > My client's new server is 64-bit, and Real Basic only supports 32 bit - > guess I'll have to document those installs... > > Oh crud - it won't open the project file. There is a converter online, > but the person selling it has stopped selling it. I hate this project! > > > ...and my dock just crashed... oh wait... it was just hung for a > moment... AvantWM on KDE... full of surprises, but very cool. > > > Okay, assuming that I can get the client portion of the application > working in wine (I just found an old copy of VB6 in the junk drawer - > not kidding), there is a version of the odbc driver that will work in > VB6 and connect it to MySQL using the old ActiveX data object thing. > > However, if I connect VB6 to MySQL, I believe the connection will be > unencrypted (which is always how you want to send privileged data > through a network). Anyone have any ideas how to TRANSPARENTLY > authenticate and encrypt connections from Linux and XP clients to a > Linux+MySQL server? If I tell these people to fire up putty every time, > it won't be a pretty picture. > > The problem is... well... read: >> lblMsg.Caption = " Verifying UserID and Password." >> rstE.Source = "SELECT * FROM Users WHERE UserID = '" & UCase(txtLOGID) & "'" >> rstE.Open > ... >> If txtPass <> Trim(rstE.Fields("password")) Or rstE!inactive = True Then >> lblMsg.Caption = "Invalid UserID or Password." >> cmdCncl.Enabled = True >> Exit Sub > > Yeah... WTFF?... the sever trusts the client... we all know how well > that works... > > > Here's what needs to happen: I need to authenticate the users that are > logging on when the connection is made, before the application is > allowed to query the server. I need that authentication to be > encrypted, and all traffic between the server to be encrypted. > > I can either: > a) add every user in the system as a mysql user, use that username and > password to make the server connection, and break all of the admin tools > built into the system. Then, I can just encrypt the whole thing in > MySQL's SSL (assuming ODBC will do this). > b) Authenticate the user against the users table in the database first > using a hardcoded, auth only user, and then tell MySQL to trust the > connection (don't know how to do this - maybe with a method or trigger?). > c) Use PostgresQL, which allows authentication against Unix accounts. > d) Make all clients VNC the server, and then trust the application as it > does now. > e) Hard code a password in the client and pray? > > I'm an IT and web guy, and this is a desktop application. How do you > authenticate client applications directly to a MySQL database without > creating new mysql users and breaking the App? Does anyone have any > other ideas? > > Scott Grizzard > scott@scottgrizzard.com > http://www.scottgrizzard.com/ > > PS: Ken, you are totally right that this needs to be a web application - > it solves EVERY problem in the book. If I had the time, I'd fire up the > Google Web Toolkit and rewrite the entire application in Java, and run > it on a GlassFish server. > > I know they won't pay me for the 160+ hours it would take to do a full > rewrite, but if they had handed me a stack of specs as specs, instead of > a pile of source code, I would probably do just that and AfferoPL the > whole, new application. However, so many people have touched this > thing, and I have seen the source code, that I am afraid the ownership > issue is a little murky. > > > Ken Elliott wrote: >> Real Basic >> http://www.linux.com/archive/articles/34497 > >> http://www.realsoftware.com/ > >> It will likely need a bit of work to port, but it might be worth a shot. >> I'd rather turn it into a web app so it runs via a browser. That way they >> can run any OS they want. > >> Ken Elliott >> ===================== > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Scott Grizzard >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:40 PM >> To: slug@nks.net >> Subject: [SLUG] Legacy application in VB6 (.com) - anyone know how to port >> this one? > >> Here's one from the way back machine: > >> I have a client with a custom (I have all the source code) legacy >> VB6/SQL Server application. I am trying to rid him of "that evil OS", >> but this "custom" application won't run in Wine (yet). It also depends >> on this older version of SQL, and I need it to work with MySQL or PgSql. > >> Does anyone have an idea of how I could port this "thing" off Windows >> and on to our favorite operating system? (where users could then VNC >> into the silly thing and still use it) Mono won't work - the "thing" is >> written in .com, and Mono only supports .Net. > >> I am willing to cough up cash for software to get this thing out, so if >> you know a proprietary BASIC compiler that deals with .com, and compiles >> it straight for Linux, I am all ears. > >> I don't want to recode this whole thing - it's one of those "internal" >> applications that has evolved over time, with logic all over the place, >> few comments in the code, and little to no database documentation. > >> The SQL code was "tacked-on" later by another programmer, and I know I >> will have to change the queries. Fortunately, it looks like the queries >> were simply substituted in for file operations, so I think I will be >> able to replicate the database logic without too much trouble. > >> The office will be moving to a new solution within two years, so I only >> need it working for now. (Of course, that's probably what the last guy >> said to himself, and here I am working with his code.) > >> I Googled, but did not find what I am looking for. Any Ideas? > >> Cheers, > >> Scott Grizzard >> ---- >> scott@scottgrizzard.com >> http://scottgrizzard.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkouYzgACgkQARR1QiSWUG4i+ACgh5ccKeHjTFzDXMLfrkPRhWGE N/EAn2HBRWPStyj5aqi2SQxY2dId7avH =eJ6C -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 9 15:50:33 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n59JoXvk018440 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 15:50:33 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n59JoXWY018437 for slug-track29; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 15:50:33 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n59JoWBt018433 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 15:50:32 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tc.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tc.nks.net [24.73.112.229]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n59JoWSO003267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 15:50:32 -0400 Received: from vms173007pub.verizon.net (vms173007pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.7]) by nks-ma-100-tc.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n59JmDxh018949 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 15:48:14 -0400 Received: from news.home ([96.243.182.3]) by vms173007.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KKZ00HN3J5PZRT0@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 13:53:55 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:53:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Eben King X-X-Sender: eben@pc.home To: SLUG Mailing List Subject: [SLUG] PATA or SATA? Message-id: User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (DEB 882 2007-12-20) X-GetARealMailreader: ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:09:53 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n59K9r94021172 for slug-track29; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:09:53 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n59K9reR021168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:09:53 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sb.nks.net [24.73.112.205]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n59K9pEq006309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:09:53 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-22.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-22.bluehost.com [69.89.21.17]) by nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n59K05SG016908 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:00:06 -0400 Received: (qmail 18462 invoked by uid 0); 9 Jun 2009 20:00:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2009 20:00:02 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=N8SnBpbrn9DtQYNfMXaZa/FVvdpfDeku8JsnM3UN9iwsD0wkJO/kWn02lH5nkYba5NE+TtL+mqKKGp25FLQwhFFqNSOD8QqT99lhhLy+fXdNTcD6v3eQ00QH8QRAEcuY; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ME7UI-000796-15 for slug@nks.net; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:00:02 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7D7DD190883F for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:00:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A2EBF40.8060306@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 16:00:00 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] PATA or SATA? References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E X-Stationery: 0.4.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-22.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.236, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, MANGLED_SIDE 1.00) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 They already are harder to find (as I found out two months ago). If you have open SATA ports on your mboard, get a SATA model. On the flipside, you can probably get a used IDE burner for less than the price of a General Moters share. - -Scott Grizzard scott@scottgrizzard.com http://www.scottgrizzard.com/ Eben King wrote: > I'm looking at two DVD/CD burners. Same line, same specs, same price. > One's IDE/ATAPI and the other's SATA. All my SATA cables are in use so > I'd have to pick one up if I need one. But other than that, it doesn't > matter to me which one I choose. Is there any reason I should choose > one over the other? Are motherboard PATA interfaces going to get hard > to find within the lifetime of this drive (say 5-10 years)? > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkouv0AACgkQARR1QiSWUG7xOQCdFfIL/WDxBgD203yHdYbP1BtA dpEAoLGaqjiC+8Sc26uD3EPA59zGgOwE =HLO/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 9 16:37:37 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n59Kbb4Q025093 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:37:37 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n59KbbIb025090 for slug-track29; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:37:37 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n59KbbVq025086 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:37:37 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-d.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-d.nks.net [24.73.112.82]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n59Kba6f010347 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:37:36 -0400 Received: from haylee.gendns10.com (haylee.gendns10.com [216.180.234.5]) by nks-ma-100-d.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n59KOwLi004631 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:24:58 -0400 Received: from pool-71-98-170-231.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.98.170.231]:50048 helo=sherman.mars.lan) by haylee.gendns10.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ME7sP-0007zo-O3 for slug@nks.net; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 16:24:57 -0400 Received: by sherman.mars.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5177B56A58; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:24:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:24:55 -0400 From: Paul M Foster To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] PATA or SATA? Message-ID: <20090609202455.GH14822@quillandmouse.com> Mail-Followup-To: slug@nks.net References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-11) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - haylee.gendns10.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - nks.net X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - quillandmouse.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-HELO: haylee.gendns10.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-7.456, required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL 1.10, BAYES_50 0.00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, HOST_MISMATCH_NET 0.31, MANGLED_SIDE 1.00, WGL_paulf_Pat_quillandmouse_Pdo_com -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 02:53:38PM -0400, Eben King wrote: > I'm looking at two DVD/CD burners. Same line, same specs, same price. > One's IDE/ATAPI and the other's SATA. All my SATA cables are in use so I'd > have to pick one up if I need one. But other than that, it doesn't matter > to me which one I choose. Is there any reason I should choose one over the > other? Are motherboard PATA interfaces going to get hard to find within > the > lifetime of this drive (say 5-10 years)? My *opinion*: yes. I suspect SATA is cheaper to manufacture (smaller form factor) and install on motherboards. Way back when, CPUs and controllers were too slow to deal with a serial interface for a hard drive. But SATA helps make the point that processing power has far out-distanced rotating disk hard drives. I expect PATA drives to go the way of 30 and 72 pin memory sticks. If you're still unsure, go by CompUSA and look at all the hard drives lined up on the shelves. What percentage are SATA and what percentage are PATA? Paul -- Paul M. Foster ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 9 18:20:22 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n59MKMP5007112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:20:22 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n59MKMDm007109 for slug-track29; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:20:22 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n59MKM7s007105 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:20:22 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sb.nks.net [24.73.112.205]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n59MKKFt020223 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:20:21 -0400 Received: from vms173001pub.verizon.net (vms173001pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.1]) by nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n59M1lnC027546 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:01:47 -0400 Received: from news.home ([96.243.182.3]) by vms173001.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KKZ004J0OSF3PU1@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:55:28 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 16:55:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Eben King X-X-Sender: eben@pc.home To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] PATA or SATA? In-reply-to: <20090609202455.GH14822@quillandmouse.com> Message-id: References: <20090609202455.GH14822@quillandmouse.com> User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (DEB 882 2007-12-20) X-GetARealMailreader: On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 02:53:38PM -0400, Eben King wrote: > >> I'm looking at two DVD/CD burners. Same line, same specs, same price. >> One's IDE/ATAPI and the other's SATA. All my SATA cables are in use so I'd >> have to pick one up if I need one. But other than that, it doesn't matter >> to me which one I choose. Is there any reason I should choose one over the >> other? Are motherboard PATA interfaces going to get hard to find within >> the >> lifetime of this drive (say 5-10 years)? > > My *opinion*: yes. I suspect SATA is cheaper to manufacture (smaller > form factor) and install on motherboards. Way back when, CPUs and > controllers were too slow to deal with a serial interface for a hard > drive. But SATA helps make the point that processing power has far > out-distanced rotating disk hard drives. I expect PATA drives to go the > way of 30 and 72 pin memory sticks. > > If you're still unsure, go by CompUSA and look at all the hard drives > lined up on the shelves. What percentage are SATA and what percentage > are PATA? Well yeah, for hard drives, sure. But I was wondering about optical-media drives. For example, at http://newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010100005%201036506653 (DVD burners), there are 17 PATA and 22 SATA models listed. That's not so clear cut. Now I don't know the sales figures for these various drives. It could be that 95% of the sales are of one model. -- -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81 VIRGO: All Virgos are extremely friendly and intelligent - except for you. Expect a big surprise today when you wind up with your head impaled upon a stick. -- Weird Al, _Your Horoscope for Today_ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 9 22:06:24 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5A26N7X006352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 22:06:23 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5A26NlQ006349 for slug-track29; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 22:06:23 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5A26NFw006345 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 22:06:23 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sp.nks.net [24.73.112.219]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5A26Nuw002979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 22:06:23 -0400 Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com (hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com [71.74.56.122]) by nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5A25ARt024856 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 22:05:10 -0400 Received: from [192.168.15.2] (really [97.97.237.9]) by hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090610020509599.NHRH23263@hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com>; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 02:05:09 +0000 Message-ID: <4A2F14D5.7000402@tampabay.rr.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 02:05:09 +0000 From: Ron Youvan Organization: HAM Radio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.1.21) Gecko/20090411 SeaMonkey/1.1.16 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] PATA or SATA? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HELO: hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-8.849, required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL -0.45, BAYES_50 0.00, J_CHICKENPOX_23 0.60, MANGLED_SIDE 1.00, WGL_ka4inm_Pat_tampabay_Pdo_rr_Pdo_com -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net > I'm looking at two DVD/CD burners. Same line, same specs, same price. > One's IDE/ATAPI and the other's SATA. All my SATA cables are in use so > I'd have to pick one up if I need one. But other than that, it doesn't > matter to me which one I choose. Is there any reason I should choose > one over the other? Are motherboard PATA interfaces going to get hard > to find within the lifetime of this drive (say 5-10 years)? I changed to a SATA after using a PATA for about a year and the SATA burns a coaster if I am wearing my cell phone while it is writing, because it "phones home" every few minutes with it's geographic coordinates, (ATT) I can hear when it does it in my speakers and the telephone. The only reason I changed is my longest PATA cable is too short and the drive had to be recessed 1/2". -- Ron KA4INM - I'm proud to be Chuck's pop! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 9 23:30:17 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5A3UHHq018126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 23:30:17 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5A3UHKt018123 for slug-track29; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 23:30:17 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5A3UGns018119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 23:30:16 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-d.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-d.nks.net [24.73.112.82]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5A3UGkQ008110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 23:30:16 -0400 Received: from vms173009pub.verizon.net (vms173009pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.9]) by nks-ma-100-d.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5A3SSYn008699 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 23:28:29 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173009.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KL000DVQ4L30JV1@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 21:36:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A2F1C4D.8080205@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 22:37:01 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] PATA or SATA? References: <4A2F14D5.7000402@tampabay.rr.com> In-reply-to: <4A2F14D5.7000402@tampabay.rr.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173009pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-1.392, required 6, AWL -2.49, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, MANGLED_SIDE 1.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Ron Youvan wrote: >> I'm looking at two DVD/CD burners. Same line, same specs, same price. >> One's IDE/ATAPI and the other's SATA. All my SATA cables are in use >> so I'd have to pick one up if I need one. But other than that, it >> doesn't matter to me which one I choose. Is there any reason I should >> choose one over the other? Are motherboard PATA interfaces going to >> get hard to find within the lifetime of this drive (say 5-10 years)? > > I changed to a SATA after using a PATA for about a year and the SATA > burns a coaster if I am wearing my cell phone while it is writing, because > it "phones home" every few minutes with it's geographic coordinates, (ATT) > I can hear when it does it in my speakers and the telephone. Hi Ron! Is that typical of these? I don't have a DVD burner yet. When I buy one I would like to avoid burning coasters if at all possible. > The only reason I changed is my longest PATA cable is too short and > the drive had to be recessed 1/2". -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 10 01:15:11 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5A5FBdl000365 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:15:11 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5A5FBcS000362 for slug-track29; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:15:11 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5A5FBIN000358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:15:11 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sb.nks.net [24.73.112.205]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5A5FAU3016607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:15:11 -0400 Received: from haylee.gendns10.com (haylee.gendns10.com [216.180.234.5]) by nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5A5BxQM026902 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:12:00 -0400 Received: from pool-71-98-170-231.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.98.170.231]:50860 helo=sherman.mars.lan) by haylee.gendns10.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MEG6M-0007s3-NF for slug@nks.net; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:11:55 -0400 Received: by sherman.mars.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id DED9956A58; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:11:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:11:51 -0400 From: Paul M Foster To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] PATA or SATA? Message-ID: <20090610051151.GJ14822@quillandmouse.com> Mail-Followup-To: slug@nks.net References: <20090609202455.GH14822@quillandmouse.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-11) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - haylee.gendns10.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - nks.net X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - quillandmouse.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-HELO: haylee.gendns10.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-6.976, required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL 1.79, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, MANGLED_SIDE 1.00, WGL_paulf_Pat_quillandmouse_Pdo_com -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 04:55:27PM -0400, Eben King wrote: > On Tue, 9 Jun 2009, Paul M Foster wrote: > >> On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 02:53:38PM -0400, Eben King wrote: >> >>> I'm looking at two DVD/CD burners. Same line, same specs, same price. >>> One's IDE/ATAPI and the other's SATA. All my SATA cables are in use > so I'd >>> have to pick one up if I need one. But other than that, it doesn't >>> matter >>> to me which one I choose. Is there any reason I should choose one > over the >>> other? Are motherboard PATA interfaces going to get hard to find within >>> the >>> lifetime of this drive (say 5-10 years)? >> >> My *opinion*: yes. I suspect SATA is cheaper to manufacture (smaller >> form factor) and install on motherboards. Way back when, CPUs and >> controllers were too slow to deal with a serial interface for a hard >> drive. But SATA helps make the point that processing power has far >> out-distanced rotating disk hard drives. I expect PATA drives to go the >> way of 30 and 72 pin memory sticks. >> >> If you're still unsure, go by CompUSA and look at all the hard drives >> lined up on the shelves. What percentage are SATA and what percentage >> are PATA? > > Well yeah, for hard drives, sure. But I was wondering about optical-media > drives. For example, at > > http://newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010100005%201036506653 > > (DVD burners), there are 17 PATA and 22 SATA models listed. That's not so > clear cut. Now I don't know the sales figures for these various drives. > It could be that 95% of the sales are of one model. Well, if you were a motherboard manufacturer and you had a choice of making motherboards with PATA and SATA, or PATA, or SATA, which would you choose? One thing for sure-- you'd manufacture as few motherboards with *both* interfaces as possible. So you'd pick which one was "the future". That would be SATA, I think. Paul -- Paul M. Foster ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). 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From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 10 01:30:56 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5A5UuaZ002636 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:30:56 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5A5UuN5002633 for slug-track29; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:30:56 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5A5UtLt002629 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:30:55 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-ti.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-ti.nks.net [24.73.112.235]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5A5Utx1017798 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:30:55 -0400 Received: from yw-out-2324.google.com (yw-out-2324.google.com [74.125.46.29]) by nks-ma-100-ti.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5A5UFLb014308 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:30:15 -0400 Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 3so258161ywj.49 for ; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 22:30:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-enigmail-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=EO3cEgdVhtdwila0ggQBkI7NQRZ6cQ5/lWSF5Qy7epU=; b=UY97YG6ghv0tG+zqzNnoOdNg9frYSmTp2bQV/XvIyPm0M1I/v3CtsCjRrQWou4n4gq EDkJwlGBuChRg0bkjLyFMMjxi/wWhr1QxSyTEcXQRlovtufS4jFmYlIIgsmuOr6X8mwe qkTQ4z+fyF+BI/OwDWK75iyEbyZ3vK0D3HJRo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=LT5GMWQIubAzru6zwZKhcpSuvZIdBE0ae95zt4X7PfJYwWpfeTTsqeBDmivC0tFarR EntpwILnmYyWbi9XaDgwb54rf6c+szDOP7qFMjtuv6bOU7Wo2H/iVpJKV7De9d/R2ZNO 96ch8Y3jgHcg7ziErpFGI1tHoHi4EOtRtJFI0= Received: by 10.150.189.2 with SMTP id m2mr1915201ybf.13.1244611815387; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 22:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.2.200? (215-137.35-65.tampabay.res.rr.com [65.35.137.215]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 7sm2071752ywo.36.2009.06.09.22.30.14 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 09 Jun 2009 22:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4A2F44F4.6040506@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:30:28 -0400 From: Paul Bransford User-Agent: Mozilla-Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] streaming audio References: <200906062344.28883.rnr@sanctum.com> In-Reply-To: <200906062344.28883.rnr@sanctum.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HELO: yw-out-2324.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-1.008, required 6, AWL -2.42, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_fr 1.65, BAYES_20 -0.74, BP_clickhere 0.50) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Bob Stia wrote: > Hello Sluggers, > > Trying to listen to streaming audio from a local radio station on line with > Firefox. When I click on "Listen" I get the following message and do not know > what it is telling me. I checked preferences in Firefox but did not find > anything appropriate. > > /tmp/GenerateASX2-1.asp could not be opened, because the associated helper > application does not exist. Change the association in your preferences. > > Anybody know/ explain to me? > > Bob S > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. Look here: (iceweasel is firefox) http://draeath.freeshell.org/helper-apps.png Whatever type of file that ASPX page is trying to give you, firefox is set to open it incorrectly. Find it and remove/fix it. If it's not on the list, it should be giving you the "Save or Open" dialog instead. If it's not listed but still gives you that error... you just found a firefox bug! Head on over here, and report it: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 10 10:58:54 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5AEwrRH017520 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:58:53 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5AEwri5017517 for slug-track29; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:58:53 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5AEwrpM017513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:58:53 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-so.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-so.nks.net [24.73.112.218]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5AEwq8l009934 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:58:53 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-306.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-306.bluehost.com [67.222.53.252]) by nks-ma-100-so.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5AEtlfE020269 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:55:47 -0400 Received: (qmail 17621 invoked by uid 0); 10 Jun 2009 14:54:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy6.bluehost.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2009 14:54:15 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=YPjVG74YqBrFaLHZ7glyYPKMbceWlcdMFtUDyIFT4jLNYjO2hVhpoQqBuXDPj4GGpTo0uhBcTygYDO1HV86MmEbxi0g85+3qi0n5h27by21B5tz3zKlSB96zU0dAVYbx; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MEPBu-0003Jp-O0 for slug@nks.net; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:54:15 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C296A190883F for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:54:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A2FC915.8070503@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:54:13 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: [SLUG] Update: Legacy application in VB6 (.com) - The final chapter References: <4A2DAF4B.3010902@scottgrizzard.com> <006401c9e89c$a2d91e10$e88b5a30$@rr.com> <4A2E042D.7080501@scottgrizzard.com> <4A2E6338.9020203@scottgrizzard.com> In-Reply-To: <4A2E6338.9020203@scottgrizzard.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E X-Stationery: 0.4.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-306.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.211, required 6, AWL 0.72, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_ithinkloveyou 0.25, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hey Sluggers, I have been (very politely) informed by the previous IT person that the solution that currently exists on the server is a total rewrite that he did (in VB6), and that it is his proprietary solution that he developed under contract. He must have "inadvertently" left the code on that machine. This was not what I was initially told, but it has now been confirmed. Translation: Not my problem. We had a discussion about what I saw, and he said that the security problems I brought up were not an issue, because he configured the SQL server and the client systems not connect unless authenticated (at least, that is what I gather he said). All of this is stuff that the IT guy /ought/ to know, but documentation is apparently not currently part of their IT process (though the non-IT business practices of this company are some of the best I have ever seen in my life - they should teach an MBA or something). He did say the expected lifetime of this system was another two years, when the government was forcing the adoption of new systems. Just glancing on the source code (that is his apparently) has reinforced every reason I maintain in wanting to see the source code for every system I use - or at least wanting to be able to see the source code for every system I use. I am firmly convince that if someone doesn't want you to see the source code for an application (and I went well beyond this particular incident to generalizing quite a while ago), then the code is probably a mess. To state it another way: If there is a reason they don't want you to see the source code, that is a reason not to use the software. I'm not saying they should let you modify the code, or they should let you share the original code and your modifications with whoever you want, or that you shouldn't pay for the privilege of using the software. What I am saying, is that you should be able to see it and audit it if you use it. Having access to the source code is like an independent dealer offering you an after-market warranty on a car: if he is willing to make a bet that the car will cost less than x dollars in problems, and expects to make a profit on the bet, then you are assured the car has some level of quality /even if/ you don't buy the warranty. Likewise, if someone is willing to show independent others the source for your product, /even if/ you don't look, you are assured some level of quality in the code. I like that last bit - I think it is going in the marketing materials for my new project. Cool beans. Thanks for letting me vent, and thank you for all your suggestions. I have learned a lot from this experience, and feel personally enriched by it. - - Scott Grizzard scott@scottgrizzard.com http://www.scottgrizzard.com/ PS: If there are any GWT programmers (or hard-core JAVA folks) out there, I am working on a commercial open source project (one with money at the end of the rainbow), and we are moving into the market for a good programmer. If you know anyone, I'd love to have a lunch... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkovyRUACgkQARR1QiSWUG7vcACgl9ZgN6hIS/ytYURyx+udxR4T HYMAoKl/2Nk1p0lYgs6mTVI02FNEGJKA =LSj8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 10 11:10:47 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5AFAlNF019237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:10:47 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5AFAlR5019234 for slug-track29; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:10:47 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5AFAlDL019230 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:10:47 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tk.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tk.nks.net [24.73.112.237]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5AFAkYC011424 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:10:46 -0400 Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com (hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com [71.74.56.125]) by nks-ma-100-tk.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5AF9Rhg030550 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:09:27 -0400 Received: from [71.40.182.35] by hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090610150926773.QNXI9737@hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com>; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:09:26 +0000 Message-ID: <4A2FCCA5.8060202@tampabay.rr.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:09:25 -0400 From: Ron Youvan Organization: HAM Radio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.1.21) Gecko/20090411 SeaMonkey/1.1.16 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] PATA or SATA? References: <4A2F14D5.7000402@tampabay.rr.com> <4A2F1C4D.8080205@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <4A2F1C4D.8080205@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HELO: hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-8.837, required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL -0.44, BAYES_50 0.00, J_CHICKENPOX_23 0.60, MANGLED_SIDE 1.00, WGL_ka4inm_Pat_tampabay_Pdo_rr_Pdo_com -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net >>> I'm looking at two DVD/CD burners. Same line, same specs, same >>> price. One's IDE/ATAPI and the other's SATA. All my SATA cables are >>> in use so I'd have to pick one up if I need one. But other than >>> that, it doesn't matter to me which one I choose. Is there any >>> reason I should choose one over the other? Are motherboard PATA >>> interfaces going to get hard to find within the lifetime of this >>> drive (say 5-10 years)? >> I changed to a SATA after using a PATA for about a year and the SATA >> burns a coaster if I am wearing my cell phone while it is writing, >> because >> it "phones home" every few minutes with it's geographic coordinates, >> (ATT) >> I can hear when it does it in my speakers and the telephone. > Is that typical of these? I don't have a DVD burner yet. When I buy one > I would like to avoid burning coasters if at all possible. I have a 500 gig 3.5" STAT in a USB hard drive and had a Plextor PATA DVD/CD writer that my son basked into rendering it no-repairable and I bought a "Liteon" (Philips) STAT because of the cable shortness and it does not do well in general and gets messed up from the cell phone, the .5tb drive and numerous thumb drives (two 8 gig) have been unaffected by the cell phone as far as I know. -- Ron KA4INM - I'm proud to be Chuck's pop! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 10 14:10:02 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5AIA2s1011911 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:10:02 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5AIA2Ie011908 for slug-track29; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:10:02 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5AIA16p011904 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:10:01 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-ti.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-ti.nks.net [24.73.112.235]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5AIA1CJ032767 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:10:01 -0400 Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.123]) by nks-ma-100-ti.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5AI8ZE0024272 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:08:35 -0400 Received: from Darth ([68.205.9.122]) by cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090610180834527.ENAG16114@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:08:34 +0000 From: "Ken Elliott" To: References: <4A2F14D5.7000402@tampabay.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <4A2F14D5.7000402@tampabay.rr.com> Subject: RE: [SLUG] PATA or SATA? Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:08:57 -0400 Message-ID: <002201c9e9f6$86520a80$92f61f80$@rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcnpcCmU2+snBzXKTSOJ1o1USTGo9gAhdLJw Content-Language: en-us X-HELO: cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.601, required 6, BAYES_50 0.00, J_CHICKENPOX_23 0.60, MANGLED_SIDE 1.00) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net >> "... burns a coaster if I am wearing my cell phone while it is writing ..." Odd. The two frequencies most used in North America are 850 and 1900MHz. There should be a lot more interference inside your computer (1+ GHz range) than from your cell phone. Is the burner grounded properly to the case? Is there a window in the case? A shielded cable might help. You can wrap a grounded wire around the SATA cable to test this theory. Ken Elliott ===================== -----Original Message----- From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Ron Youvan Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:05 PM To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] PATA or SATA? > I'm looking at two DVD/CD burners. Same line, same specs, same price. > One's IDE/ATAPI and the other's SATA. All my SATA cables are in use so > I'd have to pick one up if I need one. But other than that, it doesn't > matter to me which one I choose. Is there any reason I should choose > one over the other? Are motherboard PATA interfaces going to get hard > to find within the lifetime of this drive (say 5-10 years)? I changed to a SATA after using a PATA for about a year and the SATA burns a coaster if I am wearing my cell phone while it is writing, because it "phones home" every few minutes with it's geographic coordinates, (ATT) I can hear when it does it in my speakers and the telephone. The only reason I changed is my longest PATA cable is too short and the drive had to be recessed 1/2". -- Ron KA4INM - I'm proud to be Chuck's pop! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 10 14:53:58 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5AIrwgm018068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:53:58 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5AIrwmm018065 for slug-track29; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:53:58 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5AIrv8s018061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:53:57 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sd.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sd.nks.net [24.73.112.207]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5AIrv5m003851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:53:57 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-154.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-154.bluehost.com [67.222.39.34]) by nks-ma-100-sd.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5AIqOmF023926 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:52:25 -0400 Received: (qmail 14339 invoked by uid 0); 10 Jun 2009 18:52:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy5.bluehost.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2009 18:52:24 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=pCBpWhVaxqsLxTskPgNRoBVteI6SUv5S5mkfsPat9/4u8cw4YP8Z4UkUr7CPEzvMle8wc469gb0CkbGheBZ/Myn6b/GI8kQ/jNRa3SKKjv0K3uNAE9ewAkDHCXJ2oTzY; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MESuO-0006j8-4d for slug@nks.net; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:52:24 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A064B190883F for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:52:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A3000E6.4020307@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:52:22 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: [SLUG] Is there a software license MORE copy-left than GNU APL? X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E X-Stationery: 0.4.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-154.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.63, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, FS_SOFTWARE_LOWER 0.39) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The gnu-apl requires that any network users of a piece of software be allowed to see the source code of the software they use. Here's my problem: one of the core values of my new company is that patients should be able to see the source code of the software they're doctors use, so /all/ are assured of its quality. There is also a feature in the software that allows patients to access their medical records. My concern is that, for the GNU-APL version, larger "corporate" doctors' offices might just disable the feature and keep their modifications "in house", violating the spirit of the license and the values of the company. What I want is a license that provides that /all/ /the/ /people/ the software deals with must be informed of the fact that their doctor is using xyz software, and they can see the source code here. That would remove the incentive to disable that feature, while still /allowing/ the company to disable that feature for other reasons, and still force the company to share their mods with the users. What do y'all think? - - Scott Grizzard http://www.scottgrizzard.com/ scott@scottgrizzard.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkowAOYACgkQARR1QiSWUG4n5gCgn3rm22JW2qqGmuISVtHlmBT6 p3gAnjaJH4JFa74KSV7l8Jtb67s1SFMW =v3YV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 10 20:55:57 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B0tvdP004012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:55:57 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5B0tvvT004009 for slug-track29; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:55:57 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B0tu5Z004005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:55:56 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tc.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tc.nks.net [24.73.112.229]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B0tuYI008457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:55:56 -0400 Received: from vms173019pub.verizon.net (vms173019pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.19]) by nks-ma-100-tc.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B0sj26019479 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:54:46 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173019.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KL100BFYUIP1J62@vms173019.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:54:27 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A3055DB.9020700@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:54:51 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: [SLUG] Hosting The Great Satan Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173019pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-1.578, required 6, AWL -0.79, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_00 -2.60, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Hi Everybody! I have a (spit) Win2K set up in Virtual Box on Ubuntu 9.04. I have an Apache server listening in the Linux environment on 9260. However, the VB seems to be absolutely remote and indeed aloof from everything else.. I would like to get software from the Linux desktop installed onto the Winders virtual machine to then work with the (local) Apache server. I thought I set up the VB network, but I guess I didn't. Winders can NOT ping the Linux IP successfully, so there must not be a connection. Anyone know what to do? All help appreciated, thanks! -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 10 21:03:06 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B135a3005087 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:03:06 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5B135h9005084 for slug-track29; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:03:05 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B135ea005080 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:03:05 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sp.nks.net [24.73.112.219]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B1340c009236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:03:05 -0400 Received: from vms173007pub.verizon.net (vms173007pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.7]) by nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B0wkmN010805 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:58:46 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173007.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KL100GFKUPRV3N5@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:58:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A3056D9.8090302@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:59:05 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Is there a software license MORE copy-left than GNU APL? References: <4A3000E6.4020307@scottgrizzard.com> In-reply-to: <4A3000E6.4020307@scottgrizzard.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173007pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-1.286, required 6, AWL -3.49, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71, FS_SOFTWARE_LOWER 0.39) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Scott Grizzard wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > The gnu-apl requires that any network users of a piece of software be > allowed to see the source code of the software they use. > > Here's my problem: one of the core values of my new company is that > patients should be able to see the source code of the software they're > doctors use, so /all/ are assured of its quality. There is also a > feature in the software that allows patients to access their medical > records. > > My concern is that, for the GNU-APL version, larger "corporate" doctors' > offices might just disable the feature and keep their modifications "in > house", violating the spirit of the license and the values of the > company. Hi Scott, Just use the GPL as your starting point, get a lawyer to write the other points you want in addition - as "left" as you like, Use that as your eula. Bear in mind that someone may still violate your eula, and the only thing you can do is sue. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 10 21:12:06 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B1C5Wj006334 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:12:06 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5B1C5Pg006331 for slug-track29; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:12:05 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B1C5DC006327 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:12:05 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-a.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-a.nks.net [24.73.112.79]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B1C5oL009811 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:12:05 -0400 Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.123]) by nks-ma-100-a.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B1BLNo003879 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:11:21 -0400 Received: from Darth ([68.205.9.122]) by cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090611011120302.MYNO19023@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:11:20 +0000 From: "Ken Elliott" To: References: <4A3055DB.9020700@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <4A3055DB.9020700@verizon.net> Subject: RE: [SLUG] Hosting The Great Satan Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:11:43 -0400 Message-ID: <004301c9ea31$95d82f80$c1888e80$@rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcnqL3mGeiINbq7GStOo+nL0i6PdHAAAa4qA Content-Language: en-us X-HELO: cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.326, required 6, AWL 0.23, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Tomorrow's headlines: "Former City Commissioner Candidate Plans to Host Web Site for the Devil" Non-geeks will not understand anything else in the message. ;-> Ken Elliott ===================== -----Original Message----- From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Pete Theisen Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 8:55 PM To: slug@nks.net Subject: [SLUG] Hosting The Great Satan Hi Everybody! I have a (spit) Win2K set up in Virtual Box on Ubuntu 9.04. I have an Apache server listening in the Linux environment on 9260. However, the VB seems to be absolutely remote and indeed aloof from everything else.. I would like to get software from the Linux desktop installed onto the Winders virtual machine to then work with the (local) Apache server. I thought I set up the VB network, but I guess I didn't. Winders can NOT ping the Linux IP successfully, so there must not be a connection. Anyone know what to do? All help appreciated, thanks! -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 10 21:32:52 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B1WqTM009292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:32:52 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5B1Wqi5009289 for slug-track29; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:32:52 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B1Wq3d009285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:32:52 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-ti.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-ti.nks.net [24.73.112.235]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B1Wp2Y010901 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:32:52 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-18.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-18.bluehost.com [69.89.20.233]) by nks-ma-100-ti.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5B1WNQM002384 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:32:24 -0400 Received: (qmail 10197 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jun 2009 01:32:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2009 01:32:22 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=o9URexGhy2kumO5+IsDC/YsI6gnpke2QnpW+DGu7P5JXGfvB5bJc3wzv4JTjDb+q6BRkg2+K0NfTif149Bdp2ph4kyZTPVDLLjUaKTUog6zJ7CyyQVG03PZ0IUr5leST; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MEZ9S-0002Hx-6J for slug@nks.net; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:32:22 -0600 Received: from scott-grizzards-macbook-pro-15.local (unknown [192.168.1.100]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8A479190883F for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:32:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A305EA3.5080400@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:32:19 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Macintosh/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Is there a software license MORE copy-left than GNU APL? References: <4A3000E6.4020307@scottgrizzard.com> <4A3056D9.8090302@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <4A3056D9.8090302@verizon.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E X-Stationery: 0.4.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-18.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.53, required 6, BAYES_50 0.00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, FS_SOFTWARE_LOWER 0.39) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I thought I couldn't do that because of the copyright on the GPL... - - Scott Pete Theisen wrote: > Scott Grizzard wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> The gnu-apl requires that any network users of a piece of software be >> allowed to see the source code of the software they use. >> >> Here's my problem: one of the core values of my new company is that >> patients should be able to see the source code of the software they're >> doctors use, so /all/ are assured of its quality. There is also a >> feature in the software that allows patients to access their medical >> records. >> >> My concern is that, for the GNU-APL version, larger "corporate" doctors' >> offices might just disable the feature and keep their modifications "in >> house", violating the spirit of the license and the values of the >> company. > > Hi Scott, > > Just use the GPL as your starting point, get a lawyer to write the other > points you want in addition - as "left" as you like, Use that as your eula. > > Bear in mind that someone may still violate your eula, and the only > thing you can do is sue. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.10 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkowXqMACgkQARR1QiSWUG4bXgCeK+p7XaEMGZybTKQZ1+UB4Fpk /e8AoLIoPDmfXFZjUdYdy0jr7dk56bvv =w5ox -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 10 21:34:52 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B1YqNM009580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:34:52 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5B1YqCI009577 for slug-track29; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:34:52 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B1YqSP009573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:34:52 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-d.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-d.nks.net [24.73.112.82]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B1YqrI010978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:34:52 -0400 Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com (hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com [71.74.56.122]) by nks-ma-100-d.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B1Y00G030184 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:34:01 -0400 Received: from glaive ([97.106.103.29]) by hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090611013400211.MXIG1654@hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com> for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:34:00 +0000 Received: from leebc by glaive with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1MEZB1-00076l-MZ for slug@nks.net; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:33:59 -0400 Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:33:59 -0400 From: blee2@tampabay.rr.com To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Is there a software license MORE copy-left than GNU APL? Message-ID: <20090611013359.GH25474@glaive.dhs.org> References: <4A3000E6.4020307@scottgrizzard.com> <4A3056D9.8090302@verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4A3056D9.8090302@verizon.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-HELO: hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-Mismatched-From: True X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.968, required 6, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, HELO_IS_SMALL6 0.56, NKS_MISMATCHED_FROM 0.25, NO_REAL_NAME 0.96) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Thus Pete Theisen hast written on Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 08:59:05PM -0400, and, according to prophecy, it shall come to pass that: > Just use the GPL as your starting point, get a lawyer to write the other > points you want in addition - as "left" as you like, Use that as your eula. > > Bear in mind that someone may still violate your eula, and the only > thing you can do is sue. Scott, Oddly enough, I was just talking to a friend last night who has a friend who is a lawyer and went back to school at UF to study internet law and copyright. If you'd like, I can try to put him in touch with you. --Bryan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 10 21:47:33 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B1lX72011346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:47:33 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5B1lXdx011343 for slug-track29; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:47:33 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B1lWM8011339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:47:32 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-ti.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-ti.nks.net [24.73.112.235]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B1lWUp011791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:47:32 -0400 Received: from vms173009pub.verizon.net (vms173009pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.9]) by nks-ma-100-ti.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B1jrLH003426 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:45:53 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173009.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KL100K8YVTUSZ11@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:22:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A305C7C.7090607@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:23:08 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Hosting The Great Satan References: <4A3055DB.9020700@verizon.net> <004301c9ea31$95d82f80$c1888e80$@rr.com> In-reply-to: <004301c9ea31$95d82f80$c1888e80$@rr.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173009pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.384, required 6, AWL -2.02, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAD_WORD_dating 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_datingsite 0.50, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Ken Elliott wrote: > Tomorrow's headlines: > > "Former City Commissioner Candidate Plans to Host Web Site for the Devil" > > Non-geeks will not understand anything else in the message. ;-> > > Ken Elliott Hi Ken! Oh, they will surely roast me. :-) I lost, by the way, DEAD LAST - 70 some points behind some guy with felonies against him. Actually, the Apache server is *supposed* to deal out an EMR program dating from the 60s. Originally it ran on WW II vintage boxes for the VA. I can't tell if it works because the GUI client requires Winders. > I have a (spit) Win2K set up in Virtual Box on Ubuntu 9.04. I have an > Apache server listening in the Linux environment on 9260. However, the > VB seems to be absolutely remote and indeed aloof from everything else.. > > I would like to get software from the Linux desktop installed onto the > Winders virtual machine to then work with the (local) Apache server. > > I thought I set up the VB network, but I guess I didn't. Winders can NOT > ping the Linux IP successfully, so there must not be a connection. > > Anyone know what to do? All help appreciated, thanks! -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 10 22:26:04 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B2Q3Bc016788 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:26:03 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5B2Q3vS016785 for slug-track29; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:26:03 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B2Q2va016781 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:26:03 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sa.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sa.nks.net [24.73.112.204]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B2Q2ck014649 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:26:02 -0400 Received: from vms173005pub.verizon.net (vms173005pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.5]) by nks-ma-100-sa.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B2OlQE004734 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:24:47 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173005.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KL10003JYP65JH1@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:24:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A306B04.6020600@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:25:08 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Is there a software license MORE copy-left than GNU APL? References: <4A3000E6.4020307@scottgrizzard.com> <4A3056D9.8090302@verizon.net> <4A305EA3.5080400@scottgrizzard.com> In-reply-to: <4A305EA3.5080400@scottgrizzard.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173005pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-1.2, required 6, AWL -3.40, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71, FS_SOFTWARE_LOWER 0.39) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Scott Grizzard wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I thought I couldn't do that because of the copyright on the GPL... Hi Scott! With a lawyer, you can do anything. If it is that important to you, get a lawyer, he/she will find a way. Me, I'd just use the GPL or MIT or some other open source license and post the source myself for everyone who cared to look at it. 99% of the people won't even look at the source anyway so you can post on a low cost server. >>> The gnu-apl requires that any network users of a piece of software be >>> allowed to see the source code of the software they use. >>> >>> Here's my problem: one of the core values of my new company is that >>> patients should be able to see the source code of the software they're >>> doctors use, so /all/ are assured of its quality. There is also a >>> feature in the software that allows patients to access their medical >>> records. >>> >>> My concern is that, for the GNU-APL version, larger "corporate" doctors' >>> offices might just disable the feature and keep their modifications "in >>> house", violating the spirit of the license and the values of the >>> company. >> Just use the GPL as your starting point, get a lawyer to write the other >> points you want in addition - as "left" as you like, Use that as your eula. >> >> Bear in mind that someone may still violate your eula, and the only >> thing you can do is sue. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 10 22:49:03 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B2n3RF019975 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:49:03 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5B2n3eZ019972 for slug-track29; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:49:03 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B2n28T019968 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:49:02 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sc.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sc.nks.net [24.73.112.206]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B2n2bD015985 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:49:02 -0400 Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.122]) by nks-ma-100-sc.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B2mSNQ001462 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:48:28 -0400 Received: from Darth ([68.205.9.122]) by cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090611024827826.PUMB19023@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 02:48:27 +0000 From: "Ken Elliott" To: References: <4A3000E6.4020307@scottgrizzard.com> <4A3056D9.8090302@verizon.net> <4A305EA3.5080400@scottgrizzard.com> <4A306B04.6020600@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <4A306B04.6020600@verizon.net> Subject: RE: [SLUG] Is there a software license MORE copy-left than GNU APL? Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:48:51 -0400 Message-ID: <005301c9ea3f$2765ec00$7631c400$@rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcnqPFMbfmQIrYOETDugXWu5G32mjgAApZdA Content-Language: en-us X-HELO: cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.598, required 6, AWL -0.35, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_THISISNOTABILL 0.45, FS_SOFTWARE_LOWER 0.39) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net >> With a lawyer, you can do anything. No good lawyer would expose himself to copyright theft. Easy way to get hit with a $20,000 per violation bill. Ken Elliott ===================== -----Original Message----- From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Pete Theisen Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 10:25 PM To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Is there a software license MORE copy-left than GNU APL? Scott Grizzard wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I thought I couldn't do that because of the copyright on the GPL... Hi Scott! With a lawyer, you can do anything. If it is that important to you, get a lawyer, he/she will find a way. Me, I'd just use the GPL or MIT or some other open source license and post the source myself for everyone who cared to look at it. 99% of the people won't even look at the source anyway so you can post on a low cost server. >>> The gnu-apl requires that any network users of a piece of software be >>> allowed to see the source code of the software they use. >>> >>> Here's my problem: one of the core values of my new company is that >>> patients should be able to see the source code of the software they're >>> doctors use, so /all/ are assured of its quality. There is also a >>> feature in the software that allows patients to access their medical >>> records. >>> >>> My concern is that, for the GNU-APL version, larger "corporate" doctors' >>> offices might just disable the feature and keep their modifications "in >>> house", violating the spirit of the license and the values of the >>> company. >> Just use the GPL as your starting point, get a lawyer to write the other >> points you want in addition - as "left" as you like, Use that as your eula. >> >> Bear in mind that someone may still violate your eula, and the only >> thing you can do is sue. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 10 23:28:35 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B3SZou025540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 23:28:35 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5B3SZIU025537 for slug-track29; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 23:28:35 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B3SYeE025533 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 23:28:34 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tb.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tb.nks.net [24.73.112.228]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B3SYDf018295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 23:28:34 -0400 Received: from vms173005pub.verizon.net (vms173005pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.5]) by nks-ma-100-tb.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B3OEhs021990 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 23:24:14 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173005.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KL200JB41G8O0FJ@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:24:09 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A3078F2.2090903@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 23:24:34 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Is there a software license MORE copy-left than GNU APL? References: <4A3000E6.4020307@scottgrizzard.com> <4A3056D9.8090302@verizon.net> <4A305EA3.5080400@scottgrizzard.com> <4A306B04.6020600@verizon.net> <005301c9ea3f$2765ec00$7631c400$@rr.com> In-reply-to: <005301c9ea3f$2765ec00$7631c400$@rr.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173005pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-0.524, required 6, AWL -1.02, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, FS_SOFTWARE_LOWER 0.39) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Ken Elliott wrote: >>> With a lawyer, you can do anything. > > No good lawyer would expose himself to copyright theft. Easy way to get hit > with a $20,000 per violation bill. Hi Ken! Of course not. That's why whatever they tell you is the way to go. http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.txt If you look at the gpl text, it says you can't change it at the top, but down into it it says you can - but the next person can change it back - and no one can sue under that license (but of course anyone can sue under common law). Yes, no - maybe, whatever. That's why you get a lawyer! I imagine the lawyer would suggest a checkbox that would release the download or install that would say the user agrees to the gpl and Scott's company philosophy "core values" that the patient be free to see the source code. Heck, the patient won't know what he/she is looking at anyway, so let them look at it. End of problem. >> I thought I couldn't do that because of the copyright on the GPL... > With a lawyer, you can do anything. If it is that important to you, get > a lawyer, he/she will find a way. > > Me, I'd just use the GPL or MIT or some other open source license and > post the source myself for everyone who cared to look at it. 99% of the > people won't even look at the source anyway so you can post on a low > cost server. > >>>> The gnu-apl requires that any network users of a piece of software be >>>> allowed to see the source code of the software they use. >>>> >>>> Here's my problem: one of the core values of my new company is that >>>> patients should be able to see the source code of the software they're >>>> doctors use, so /all/ are assured of its quality. There is also a >>>> feature in the software that allows patients to access their medical >>>> records. >>>> >>>> My concern is that, for the GNU-APL version, larger "corporate" doctors' >>>> offices might just disable the feature and keep their modifications "in >>>> house", violating the spirit of the license and the values of the >>>> company. > >>> Just use the GPL as your starting point, get a lawyer to write the other >>> points you want in addition - as "left" as you like, Use that as your > eula. >>> Bear in mind that someone may still violate your eula, and the only >>> thing you can do is sue. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 11 01:24:55 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B5OtMQ009416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:24:55 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5B5Otak009413 for slug-track29; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:24:55 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B5OrNs009409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:24:53 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-ti.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-ti.nks.net [24.73.112.235]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B5OrJe027626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:24:53 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-20.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-20.bluehost.com [69.89.20.235]) by nks-ma-100-ti.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5B5OOvg020613 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:24:24 -0400 Received: (qmail 32182 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jun 2009 05:24:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2009 05:24:23 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=QOxt5Za0aOurclos0oPj4XzU8whkunSPM8d2ve3KarIPMEH6l1fNHqepg7+yWHA7ran/4nX+9Op5pYLKe8MCvThkeVnt4bY86GQaNO7NMHhMs3yVtbNUoKHJeFdyrs09; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MEclz-0006B9-7P for slug@nks.net; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 23:24:23 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CF178190883F for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:24:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A309506.6000002@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:24:22 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: [SLUG] Good open source (or pay for a little more than the open source) Firewall? X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E X-Stationery: 0.4.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-20.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.383, required 6, AWL 0.15, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I am playing with pfSense and Smoothwall. Can anyone think of any other firewall distros out there that are open source, but easy for users (not admins, actual users, the /little people/ who are trying to remotely connect to my cool server). Commercial support contracts are good too. Barring that, anyone have a firewall appliance they less than three more than any of these open source product? Cheers guys, Scott Grizzard http://scottgrizzard.com scott@scottgrizzard.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkowlQEACgkQARR1QiSWUG7oHgCbBlEfFM2VCVhJbPeJoJcNRQCZ o8QAniZotuteD+V3SUPikvvV3pd6iKaU =RTpE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 11 01:26:40 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B5QeJd009676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:26:40 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5B5QeDu009673 for slug-track29; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:26:40 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B5Qd6T009669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:26:39 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-td.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-td.nks.net [24.73.112.230]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B5Qdwj027794 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:26:39 -0400 Received: from SANCTUM.COM (ns1.marlowe.net [216.253.133.145]) by nks-ma-100-td.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B5OgCv009100 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:24:43 -0400 Received: from easystreet.home (*authenticated* [96.254.85.249] rnr@sanctum.com) by SANCTUM.COM with ESMTP (IOA-IPAD 6.19g) id 6QMB800 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:24:40 -0400 From: Bob Stia Organization: Easystreet To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] streaming audio Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:18:52 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.9 References: <200906062344.28883.rnr@sanctum.com> <4A2F44F4.6040506@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4A2F44F4.6040506@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200906110118.53089.rnr@sanctum.com> X-SANCTUM.COM-AS: au:1 mx:-1 es:0 sc:0+0 ap:0 ex:1 X-HELO: SANCTUM.COM X-Mismatched-Host: True X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-7.599, required 6, autolearn=not spam, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_fr 1.65, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_clickhere 0.50, NKS_MISMATCHED_HOST 0.25, WGL_rnr_Pat_sanctum_Pdo_com -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net On Wednesday 10 June 2009 01:30:28 am Paul Bransford wrote: > Bob Stia wrote: > > Hello Sluggers, > > > > Trying to listen to streaming audio from a local radio station on line > > with Firefox. When I click on "Listen" I get the following message and do > > not know what it is telling me. I checked preferences in Firefox but did > > not find anything appropriate. > > > > /tmp/GenerateASX2-1.asp could not be opened, because the associated > > helper application does not exist. Change the association in your > > preferences. > > > > Anybody know/ explain to me? > > > > Bob S > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Look here: (iceweasel is firefox) > > http://draeath.freeshell.org/helper-apps.png > > Whatever type of file that ASPX page is trying to give you, firefox is > set to open it incorrectly. Find it and remove/fix it. If it's not on > the list, it should be giving you the "Save or Open" dialog instead. > > If it's not listed but still gives you that error... you just found a > firefox bug! Head on over here, and report it: > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/ > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for replying Paul, I looked at that URL and didn't help much. But I think I figured it out. When you click on the link it opens one of the media players. VLC in this case. But there is no sound. Now this wasn't the only problem. I also did not get sound trying to open a .wmv file etc. so I finally opened kmix and started to play with the settings. Seems as though if both the left and right channels were equal there was no sound, but if I moved either to the left or right channel I would get it. (mono of course) Sooo, now I get something. Will figure out later why equal output from channels nulls the sound. Anyway, for now, I am happy because I can hear something. Thanks again, Bob S ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 11 03:06:31 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B76Vci023669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 03:06:31 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5B76Vdu023666 for slug-track29; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 03:06:31 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B76UtM023662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 03:06:31 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-d.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-d.nks.net [24.73.112.82]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B76UPr015301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 03:06:30 -0400 Received: from yw-out-2324.google.com (yw-out-2324.google.com [74.125.46.29]) by nks-ma-100-d.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5B6hwLq023048 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 02:43:59 -0400 Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 3so642978ywj.49 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 23:43:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-enigmail-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=jWb8E/a+XetPZ/pzXKqEQ7N/OIvIEYke1TislcS27W8=; b=Ygq0m8a02LDBh0pDOTOduVfPqCMbRPqaC8JSOEYItnkom9rWZHK8HI/8jExcsGyq1N Z9ZcO+QeME1nsEz5yBaPNGyKH0W3lJzyAhNZ5XdEZav2jHIeQrDoP36AICk1VXoAXhv7 Yu7p5qpUZ9kB96KusGjpxqY8iFnGxfm5dV3wo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=j2LoMfLmNWqxkhc3Lh/BiOWxccW7hXj+Mhs0IP6HgTEJKkPZySEuYcbv9ClYTaeTiw 7HXuoe6FeXt502CvBP8ISJiNeHGVzBhSKhxcAuQ1IFbMT8O3HH3H8eszGa/+rd1F++T0 1qejK5jfHVPVm3CR/DfGPAi5gdQjbrXV4qVNE= Received: by 10.100.191.16 with SMTP id o16mr2285915anf.173.1244702638597; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 23:43:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.2.200? (215-137.35-65.tampabay.res.rr.com [65.35.137.215]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 6sm1266068ywn.27.2009.06.10.23.43.57 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 10 Jun 2009 23:43:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4A30A7C2.5080601@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 02:44:18 -0400 From: Paul Bransford User-Agent: Mozilla-Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] streaming audio References: <200906062344.28883.rnr@sanctum.com> <4A2F44F4.6040506@gmail.com> <200906110118.53089.rnr@sanctum.com> In-Reply-To: <200906110118.53089.rnr@sanctum.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HELO: yw-out-2324.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=2.353, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_fr 1.65, BAYES_40 -0.18, BP_clickhere 0.50, HOST_MISMATCH_COM 0.31, TW_SN 0.08) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: ss X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Bob Stia wrote: > On Wednesday 10 June 2009 01:30:28 am Paul Bransford wrote: >> Bob Stia wrote: >>> Hello Sluggers, >>> >>> Trying to listen to streaming audio from a local radio station on line >>> with Firefox. When I click on "Listen" I get the following message and do >>> not know what it is telling me. I checked preferences in Firefox but did >>> not find anything appropriate. >>> >>> /tmp/GenerateASX2-1.asp could not be opened, because the associated >>> helper application does not exist. Change the association in your >>> preferences. >>> >>> Anybody know/ explain to me? >>> >>> Bob S >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Look here: (iceweasel is firefox) >> >> http://draeath.freeshell.org/helper-apps.png >> >> Whatever type of file that ASPX page is trying to give you, firefox is >> set to open it incorrectly. Find it and remove/fix it. If it's not on >> the list, it should be giving you the "Save or Open" dialog instead. >> >> If it's not listed but still gives you that error... you just found a >> firefox bug! Head on over here, and report it: >> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/ >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for replying Paul, > > I looked at that URL and didn't help much. But I think I figured it out. > When you click on the link it opens one of the media players. VLC in this > case. > > But there is no sound. Now this wasn't the only problem. I also did not get > sound trying to open a .wmv file etc. so I finally opened kmix and started to > play with the settings. Seems as though if both the left and right channels > were equal there was no sound, but if I moved either to the left or right > channel I would get it. (mono of course) Sooo, now I get something. Will > figure out later why equal output from channels nulls the sound. Anyway, for > now, I am happy because I can hear something. > > Thanks again, > Bob S > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. Odd. Try using using OSS instead of alsa, see if that helps. modprobe snd-pcm-oss modprobe snd-mixer-oss modprobe snd-seq-oss Then, set the audio output module in VLC to OSS. (/dev/dsp if you need to specify). If that works, then either your alsa drivers are buggy, or the alsa output module for VLC is acting funny. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 11 07:45:35 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BBjZXB030526 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 07:45:35 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5BBjZlp030523 for slug-track29; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 07:45:35 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BBjY20030519 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 07:45:35 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tb.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tb.nks.net [24.73.112.228]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BBjY3X026073 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 07:45:34 -0400 Received: from mail-qy0-f204.google.com (mail-qy0-f204.google.com [209.85.221.204]) by nks-ma-100-tb.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BBMqnG005861 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 07:22:53 -0400 Received: by qyk42 with SMTP id 42so1994205qyk.7 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 04:22:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=Gkz1AeSNNlhvBRl2IfssAPMBjSKm4n8TO9GGKRKeY6M=; b=Us+FoeIjYXcd/a4GTobb9hpp9HMp9amRB9g1A/KOHRc+rMUAtm3mNs/elV7eoGss82 El+ID5K9kfjIpDPFEiIwxUjNFnLzw6bYuD0P4p/9lragY+MPcAD0b4lGKEo+P7+w8HyN 89xBE0W2lYmDqS5/6sUE3YZDHwpYIncfa86cg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=k/gNP65wpHnrb0pGvDfJczXHmvF5TsPFln8GU9aOk4ktHRKP7G6uUHoiZEW9wFLTlo AzeH23YAPWR5r42rtLxS3GVmxrdXaAtiMeJVuJNwtlE9vyUIe+VIkXyHlGqBnyIY4JLR cSGABNWEgV1687cZ8lQ0vMBaw8LzFYnRQqhNI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.80.78 with SMTP id s14mr549242qck.101.1244719371712; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 04:22:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4A3055DB.9020700@verizon.net> References: <4A3055DB.9020700@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 07:22:51 -0400 Message-ID: <125d27dd0906110422k2ae440adic77e48496ce3d972@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [SLUG] Hosting The Great Satan From: Daniel Jarboe To: slug@nks.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636426d4dfef7ee046c10cfa2 X-HELO: mail-qy0-f204.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-0.314, required 6, BAYES_05 -1.11, HTML_00_10 0.80, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net --001636426d4dfef7ee046c10cfa2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I thought I set up the VB network, but I guess I didn't. > Winders can NOT ping the Linux IP successfully, so > there must not be a connection. What VB network config is the virtual using? The default is NAT, which should fully allow connections initiated by your virtual. Which means your Virtual Windows should be able to reach apache on the host, but you can't initiate connections to the virtual from the outside. You didn't change it to None or Internal, did you? For the most function I'd recommend using bridged mode. Assuming you have DHCP on your network (home router?), your virtual will get its own IP address and be fully accessible to other hosts on the network by its unique IP address. You can also use host-only for a similar setup, except it's not reachable from machines outside the host. So the host can directly address its virtuals, and the virtuals can directly address each other, but from the outside it works more like the NAT configurating (connections must be initiated from the inside out, not the outside in). Make sense? ~ Daniel --001636426d4dfef7ee046c10cfa2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I thought I set up the VB network, but I guess I didn't.
> W= inders can NOT ping the Linux IP successfully, so
> there must not be a connecti= on.

What VB network config is the virtual using?

The default is NAT,= which should fully allow connections initiated by your virtual.=A0 Which m= eans your Virtual Windows should be able to reach apache on the host, but y= ou can't initiate connections to the virtual from the outside.=A0 You d= idn't change it to None or Internal, did you?

For the most function I'd recommend using bridged mode.=A0 Assuming= you have DHCP on your network (home router?), your virtual will get its ow= n IP address and be fully accessible to other hosts on the network by its u= nique IP address.

You can also use host-only for a similar setup, except it's not rea= chable from machines outside the host.=A0 So the host can directly address = its virtuals, and the virtuals can directly address each other, but from th= e outside it works more like the NAT configurating (connections must be ini= tiated from the inside out, not the outside in).

Make sense?
~ Daniel
--001636426d4dfef7ee046c10cfa2-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 11 08:23:50 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BCNogT003511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:23:50 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5BCNoie003508 for slug-track29; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:23:50 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BCNYnJ003470 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:23:34 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-so.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-so.nks.net [24.73.112.218]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BCNWJa030774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:23:33 -0400 Received: from smtp15.bis.na.blackberry.com (smtp15.bis.na.blackberry.com [216.9.248.29]) by nks-ma-100-so.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BCBxha026646 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:12:00 -0400 Received: from bda317.bisx.prod.on.blackberry (bda317.bisx.prod.on.blackberry [172.20.232.77]) by srs.bis.na.blackberry.com (8.13.7 TEAMON/8.13.7) with ESMTP id n5BCBinw028791 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:11:44 GMT Received: from bda317.bisx.prod.on.blackberry (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by bda317.bisx.prod.on.blackberry (8.13.7 TEAMON/8.13.7) with ESMTP id n5BCBtqh002329 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:11:55 GMT X-rim-org-msg-ref-id: 1904063308 Message-ID: <1904063308-1244722314-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-470070257-@bxe1202.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> X-Priority: Normal Sensitivity: Normal Importance: Normal Subject: Re: [SLUG] Good open source (or pay for a little more than the open source)Firewall? To: slug@nks.net From: "Jim Forte" Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:11:55 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 X-HELO: smtp15.bis.na.blackberry.com X-Mismatched-From: True X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-0.14, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_00 -2.60, MIME_BASE64_NO_NAME 0.22, MIME_BASE64_TEXT 1.89, NKS_MISMATCHED_FROM 0.25) X-Spam-Status: No Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by slug-list-00.nks.net id n5BCNYnI003471 Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Firestarter? ------Original Message------ From: Scott Grizzard Sender: slug@nks.net To: slug@nks.net ReplyTo: slug@nks.net Subject: [SLUG] Good open source (or pay for a little more than the open source)Firewall? Sent: Jun 11, 2009 1:24 AM -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I am playing with pfSense and Smoothwall. Can anyone think of any other firewall distros out there that are open source, but easy for users (not admins, actual users, the /little people/ who are trying to remotely connect to my cool server). Commercial support contracts are good too. Barring that, anyone have a firewall appliance they less than three more than any of these open source product? Cheers guys, Scott Grizzard http://scottgrizzard.com scott@scottgrizzard.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkowlQEACgkQARR1QiSWUG7oHgCbBlEfFM2VCVhJbPeJoJcNRQCZ o8QAniZotuteD+V3SUPikvvV3pd6iKaU =RTpE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. Jim Forte Magna Computer Corp http://www.magna.net/ Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 11 08:30:25 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BCUPDC004448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:30:25 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5BCUPvN004445 for slug-track29; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:30:25 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BCUPae004441 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:30:25 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sd.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sd.nks.net [24.73.112.207]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BCUOUq031363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:30:24 -0400 Received: from web65503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com (web65503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com [76.13.9.47]) by nks-ma-100-sd.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5BCTZJN018481 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:29:35 -0400 Received: (qmail 59051 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jun 2009 12:29:34 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1244723374; bh=eJ0DsYJIfHt4hZ8Wj7sA4R7l13Rs7lqWzV3GdcTtc+4=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=OY5EXiAMcT8J+JQa4BUnj39zfqh2saKMnF1aTqpuc4mGxe/r7iPFJPvDew9DCbsXOsz+gK0oNtw+JG8Dov1BiALLEdRLIOnBD64D6rSntxYUS205Ibd/oKOi5aBXLsoiqD+pyKrzedxXScJsBgJV2+jN1+bkcsmxX4PAqXG34MI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=BNc0np3gGG7sP5rfsyfXTbCz37bSyoEjbSe78PtONW2IDAc6Utg6QwaPck78ZR4MFMuaQUDYfnmOcls1MSyTO70WxAa2/9ts8r3YaCWcw5IBB4NsAiZFMELGnzgRcIXrZZVW7XjpZ4GEcmwAXW1LPJIYxGXo2+dr3Cl0nuJs4oU=; Message-ID: <371374.58962.qm@web65503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: jOoiEn4VM1kYncQE61wyZ9HQBr4ycP5LHlh9BL9ybAAWt79fpTqiTuvj5cP8w.mBzYQJRdQ0SiS2Bjq2FbjA9UTPM0qQlf_m20VVh_pd1yq_PKEYWfhjNxikQXfzS6pQw3YtmzNlmIWZOIMcRBN.ixbrNIG3ifK2xjFOyOFrP45ri2iw9FfAbS6AEP7ATctxcT47y98bNCcOQdjCAdYYBhfXj0GesGWQPqTY.LtYurUu6nIprftUr8nXMAhLf66Mxdro2qZbAhlKAxCC0C5NuBzJVcoXHkK8rHfdYW92qUSXzrE9aLd2WPOyhQ4- Received: from [173.171.149.42] by web65503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 05:29:34 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1277.43 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15 References: <4A309506.6000002@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 05:29:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Brown Subject: Re: [SLUG] Good open source (or pay for a little more than the open source) Firewall? To: slug@nks.net In-Reply-To: <4A309506.6000002@scottgrizzard.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-HELO: web65503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=3.659, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_cl 1.65, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: sss X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Don't know if it's good or not never used it but remember just recently seeing a new version of one on Distrowatch called Untangle; it's Debian-based: http://www.untangle.com/home Also you might want to look at: http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=firewalls ClarkConnect (Red Hat based) is interesting in that list too; though not specifically a firewall distro, it can be set up as such, plus it does much much more than just that. I used it as a Samba server once and it worked great. http://www.clarkconnect.com/ Also from that list Astaro looks pretty good: http://www.astaro.com/ ----- Original Message ---- From: Scott Grizzard To: slug@nks.net Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 1:24:22 AM Subject: [SLUG] Good open source (or pay for a little more than the open source) Firewall? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I am playing with pfSense and Smoothwall. Can anyone think of any other firewall distros out there that are open source, but easy for users (not admins, actual users, the /little people/ who are trying to remotely connect to my cool server). Commercial support contracts are good too. Barring that, anyone have a firewall appliance they less than three more than any of these open source product? Cheers guys, Scott Grizzard http://scottgrizzard.com scott@scottgrizzard.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkowlQEACgkQARR1QiSWUG7oHgCbBlEfFM2VCVhJbPeJoJcNRQCZ o8QAniZotuteD+V3SUPikvvV3pd6iKaU =RTpE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 11 08:59:10 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BCxAVe008409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:59:10 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5BCxAMR008406 for slug-track29; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:59:10 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BCx9Ea008402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:59:10 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tj.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tj.nks.net [24.73.112.236]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BCx983001108 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:59:09 -0400 Received: from yw-out-2324.google.com (yw-out-2324.google.com [74.125.46.31]) by nks-ma-100-tj.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BCaOBI030162 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:36:24 -0400 Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 3so704736ywj.49 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 05:36:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=mNjkTzPXskiNicMx4p0G9lBsjGDy3wrRAjIz3PRIsp8=; b=g6+/mU+/Y2SNf4xUZ1kHdC1MrRMXhIztmSs31jIWGPW1ipQDI12iOGdB8WGwRw6ony Hd1NhJ34U4yPKm5DTTA/Q4AUHdROImcAuytS1LgKJmQYqepoE675YnyWCi67VTKS3bUn qyO48lC2e82l5nWoJRiaKWRC4NjBJZ039O3KY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=FBWzgY993Jywrh3soijYEMHGlSSxNDSJ5DbM+laXY9NF5j8htt4aNiePXShdKy4F43 qO77/I1NfpLN73FXzd9d410YfSlpnkvC/2/rTTEepnVMjuCG4EhguMEZnOU6KCCKU7UR Qq1mjv9Zhql8MNyR4bcKy4LNw0nALxSluL5QY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.90.116.15 with SMTP id o15mr2114343agc.76.1244723784321; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 05:36:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4A309506.6000002@scottgrizzard.com> References: <4A309506.6000002@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:36:24 -0400 Message-ID: <22e1856d0906110536l50c91a37m57686813d6d02657@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [SLUG] Good open source (or pay for a little more than the open source) Firewall? From: Tyler Vann-Campbell To: slug@nks.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HELO: yw-out-2324.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-2.499, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_00 -2.60) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net I always liked Endian, a fork of IPCop, with a few additions, like a sip proxy. On 6/11/09, Scott Grizzard wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I am playing with pfSense and Smoothwall. Can anyone think of any other > firewall distros out there that are open source, but easy for users (not > admins, actual users, the /little people/ who are trying to remotely > connect to my cool server). Commercial support contracts are good too. > > Barring that, anyone have a firewall appliance they less than three more > than any of these open source product? > > Cheers guys, > > Scott Grizzard > http://scottgrizzard.com > scott@scottgrizzard.com > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAkowlQEACgkQARR1QiSWUG7oHgCbBlEfFM2VCVhJbPeJoJcNRQCZ > o8QAniZotuteD+V3SUPikvvV3pd6iKaU > =RTpE > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > -- Sent from my mobile device "The power of the computer is marvelous, and the cost of computer power is small, and you can over time build files that have lots of information on them about people's past preferences, and prejudices, and living patterns." K.R. 1999 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 11 09:33:45 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BDXjC9013313 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:33:45 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5BDXj4o013310 for slug-track29; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:33:45 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BDXjmg013306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:33:45 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sb.nks.net [24.73.112.205]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BDXiqi003743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:33:44 -0400 Received: from vms173003pub.verizon.net (vms173003pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.3]) by nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BDVr3W025017 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:31:53 -0400 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173003.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KL2008RDRY0L8C3@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 07:56:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A30FF15.7010706@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:56:53 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Hosting The Great Satan References: <4A3055DB.9020700@verizon.net> <125d27dd0906110422k2ae440adic77e48496ce3d972@mail.gmail.com> In-reply-to: <125d27dd0906110422k2ae440adic77e48496ce3d972@mail.gmail.com> X-HELO: vms173003pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.653, required 6, AWL -1.16, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Daniel Jarboe wrote: > > I thought I set up the VB network, but I guess I didn't. > > Winders can NOT ping the Linux IP successfully, so > > there must not be a connection. > > What VB network config is the virtual using? Hi Daniel, "Details" (Has a little gear logo in the tab)  General Name: Winders OS Type: Windows 2000 Base Memory: 168 MB Video Memory: 12 MB Boot Order: Floppy, CD/DVD-ROM, Hard Disk ACPI: Enabled IO APIC: Disabled VT-x/AMD-V: Disabled Nested Paging: Disabled PAE/NX: Disabled 3D Acceleration: Disabled  Hard Disks IDE Primary Master: NewHardDisk1.vdi (Normal, 2.00 GB) CD/DVD-ROM Host Drive: SONY CD-RW CRX300E (/dev/sr0) Floppy Not mounted Audio Disabled Network Adapter 1: PCnet-FAST III (internal network, 'Inside') Serial Ports Disabled Shared Folders None The "Settings Option on the menu is grayed out, don't know how to access it. I don't know what the settings are because I can't access that part of the menu. Maybe "Details" is the settings? Both have a gear logo. > > The default is NAT, which should fully allow connections initiated by > your virtual. Which means your Virtual Windows should be able to reach > apache on the host, but you can't initiate connections to the virtual > from the outside. You didn't change it to None or Internal, did you? > > For the most function I'd recommend using bridged mode. Assuming you > have DHCP on your network (home router?), your virtual will get its own > IP address and be fully accessible to other hosts on the network by its > unique IP address. Internet service provided a Westell 327 from Verizon. It can serve as a router or maybe a switch. They call it a "router". Westell 327 and The Great Satan is a marriage made in the hot place. I prefer to keep winders out of the router/modem or whatever it is. > You can also use host-only for a similar setup, except it's not > reachable from machines outside the host. So the host can directly > address its virtuals, and the virtuals can directly address each other, > but from the outside it works more like the NAT configurating > (connections must be initiated from the inside out, not the outside in). > > Make sense? I want this Virtual Box Windows setup to be able to interact with an Apache server that is running in the Linux environment on the same machine. That and maybe share the clipboard with Linux. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 11 11:10:32 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BFAW5x026846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:10:32 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5BFAW9H026843 for slug-track29; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:10:32 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BFAVP2026839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:10:31 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tb.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tb.nks.net [24.73.112.228]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BFAUlb010836 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:10:31 -0400 Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com (hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com [71.74.56.125]) by nks-ma-100-tb.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BF8wiU000919 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:08:59 -0400 Received: from glaive ([97.106.103.29]) by hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090611150854734.EVEG1654@hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com>; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:08:54 +0000 Received: from leebc by glaive with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1MElte-0002dc-7r; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:08:54 -0400 Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:08:54 -0400 From: blee2@tampabay.rr.com To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Good open source Firewall? Message-ID: <20090611150854.GO25474@glaive.dhs.org> References: <4A309506.6000002@scottgrizzard.com> <371374.58962.qm@web65503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <371374.58962.qm@web65503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-HELO: hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-Mismatched-From: True X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.762, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_iamyearsold 0.25, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, NKS_MISMATCHED_FROM 0.25, NO_REAL_NAME 0.96) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net > From: Scott Grizzard > > I am playing with pfSense and Smoothwall. Can anyone think of any other > firewall distros out there that are open source, but easy for users (not > admins, actual users, the /little people/ who are trying to remotely > connect to my cool server). Commercial support contracts are good too. > > Barring that, anyone have a firewall appliance they less than three more > than any of these open source product? I scavenged a surplus Pentium-90 from an employer about 7 years ago (it was already old THEN) and installed smoothwall on it. I've used it (and the included 512MB hard drive, upgraded to 128MB RAM) since then. You could probably do something similar: buy some outdated computers in bulk off ebay, add a NIC, replace the hard with a new one or a SSD device (watch out for swap and logs!) and sell/lease them to your customers for a nominal fee and offer low cost replacements if they die. Smoothwall includes VPN features (which I never had the need to use). I have a simple configuration (all outgoing, SSH in, HTTP in, SMTP in, no UPNP no logging) that I haven't needed to change since setup except for black-holing attackers. Despite my dedication to the command line (tm), for firewalls I need some sort of GUI for everything to make sense. IPtables/IPchains never did it for me. I recommend that you strongly encourage your customers to do some kind of service contract with you to maintain their firewalls. I don't think that security should be left in the hands of amateurs. Get a couple people to contract for you to make changes at $20/hr. Use different random passwords on each firewall. The customer can still audit the config themselves, they're just recommended to not make any changes. Oh, and you'll need someone who understands HIPPA requirements. And probably PCI and SOX. --Bryan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 11 11:48:46 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BFmkkP032211 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:48:46 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5BFmkJG032208 for slug-track29; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:48:46 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BFmkTR032204 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:48:46 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tj.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tj.nks.net [24.73.112.236]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BFmkwY013808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:48:46 -0400 Received: from mail-bw0-f228.google.com (mail-bw0-f228.google.com [209.85.218.228]) by nks-ma-100-tj.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BFlvNP017813 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:47:58 -0400 Received: by bwz28 with SMTP id 28so1681302bwz.13 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:47:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.239.156.2 with SMTP id k2mr222878hbc.51.1244735276146; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:47:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20090611150854.GO25474@glaive.dhs.org> References: <4A309506.6000002@scottgrizzard.com> <371374.58962.qm@web65503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <20090611150854.GO25474@glaive.dhs.org> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:47:56 -0400 Message-ID: <2d9aa67f0906110847g72b48ff4i3f987d25efe43655@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [SLUG] [OT] Good open source Firewall? From: Dylan Hardison To: slug@nks.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-HELO: mail-bw0-f228.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-2.499, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_00 -2.60) X-Spam-Status: No Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by slug-list-00.nks.net id n5BFmkTQ032205 Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 11:08 AM, wrote: > Despite my dedication to the command line (tm), for firewalls I need > some sort of GUI for everything to make sense.  IPtables/IPchains never > did it for me. Try pf on openbsd some time, it's really nice. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 11 12:09:57 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BG9vpN002756 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:09:57 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5BG9vLc002753 for slug-track29; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:09:57 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BG9vd3002749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:09:57 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sm.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sm.nks.net [24.73.112.216]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BG9u7o015438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:09:57 -0400 Received: from web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.48.115]) by nks-ma-100-sm.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5BG7WAc005291 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:07:32 -0400 Received: (qmail 45592 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jun 2009 16:06:49 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1244736409; bh=1tW86WEI4HNhsjI5qkmr4Md3TRym/lhTKcSyICDlqY4=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=BT1qBb3lscpkjHCkRQASshyxWHHPFT006A7INQdSYVk8ItBuIyqJ6qIJj9jMwF+ZBBJrx02f7vLChwOX+88f+TztNn6VulbvmI9opd1D6ovQz9OEpg17o1DNUdK5zLlHpyySusNJObGL+UQTrct/vrp55BxQrq1x3vjEYGoGeGI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=K9S+RNhr2MOTL5N9UVnQyWSz6PGT62v2gjRWj5nEVITO9PY3BGQgDiS4uwF1i+cgafhCM/TLVr+zApd+PVyjSc5X0vZg+v7A30jPxRTLRubcrxyZ9/8XIWZzhICu1dt7SzXlJ5D1MV+4psWbTNnyTX3S0iCDM1y8Wju7u67Oadk=; Message-ID: <176061.43850.qm@web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: .VeKjAYVM1kFDtLS3V_E7k0Fx7ZIB.BFPWzxZf29dZR__MAt_nIUi3_XkfmugkOALGMF1AKHfN1GMQYYl4v_IzfrsI49fzWyeUlio8BoFuM0qdi9lVhGNEZBdRMTP0mMU_AErLtvcdbqdNrHqRdYXTqVMzqqYKpnqK24vm1bZa0LJudHqYHitY5VkEmjPC0y.a4ORS0MN_X99j878sgLirTADyE17DG9rtw_HW88ifvFCou2f_Oo55y1vQDxjazzhP5V8GIjveCR7R7IxMqFXcHcOu2loSvxOgzTRSrGCgZKi96abpmpMg0XPK2DY0xxwIqViQrp.bYDk_acPh69uBM- Received: from [67.78.145.42] by web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:06:48 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1277.43 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15 References: <4A309506.6000002@scottgrizzard.com> <371374.58962.qm@web65503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <20090611150854.GO25474@glaive.dhs.org> <2d9aa67f0906110847g72b48ff4i3f987d25efe43655@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:06:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Eanes Subject: Re: [SLUG] [OT] Good open source Firewall? To: slug@nks.net In-Reply-To: <2d9aa67f0906110847g72b48ff4i3f987d25efe43655@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-HELO: web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-8.732, required 6, autolearn=not spam, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_20 -0.74, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71, WGL_rheanes3_Pat_yahoo_Pdo_com -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by slug-list-00.nks.net id n5BG9vd2002750 Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net   ----- Original Message ---- From: Dylan Hardison To: slug@nks.net Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:47:56 AM Subject: Re: [SLUG] [OT] Good open source Firewall? On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 11:08 AM, wrote: > Despite my dedication to the command line (tm), for firewalls I need > some sort of GUI for everything to make sense.  IPtables/IPchains never > did it for me. Try pf on openbsd some time, it's really nice. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS).  Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. pfSense if you are a BSD fan or IPCOP is a linux fan.  Both are very good, but pfSense has gotten some really good reviews for it's UI being more intuitive than IPCOP. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 11 12:45:46 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BGjkGV007783 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:45:46 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5BGjkRD007780 for slug-track29; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:45:46 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BGjjjQ007776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:45:45 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sd.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sd.nks.net [24.73.112.207]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BGjj5o018364 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:45:45 -0400 Received: from linux.magna.net (mail.magna.net [67.78.158.35]) by nks-ma-100-sd.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BGirFh008150 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:44:54 -0400 Received: from mail.magna.net (mail.magna.net [192.168.10.144]) by linux.magna.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E35F44EC260 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:44:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:44:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Forte To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] [OT] Good open source Firewall? In-Reply-To: <176061.43850.qm@web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: References: <4A309506.6000002@scottgrizzard.com> <371374.58962.qm@web65503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <20090611150854.GO25474@glaive.dhs.org> <2d9aa67f0906110847g72b48ff4i3f987d25efe43655@mail.gmail.com> <176061.43850.qm@web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LRH 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-1463775222-549491777-1244738692=:5609" X-HELO: linux.magna.net X-Mismatched-Host: True X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.451, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAD_WORD_timeshare 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, NKS_MISMATCHED_HOST 0.25) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. ---1463775222-549491777-1244738692=:5609 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Did you try firestarter? It comes with Fedora 10 and it makes you really stupid about iptables because you don't need to know much. Plus once you learn the config files /etc/firestarter/inbound you can edit them remotely without the gui and restart the firewall. Jim On Thu, 11 Jun 2009, Robert Eanes wrote: > > >   > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Dylan Hardison > To: slug@nks.net > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:47:56 AM > Subject: Re: [SLUG] [OT] Good open source Firewall? > > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 11:08 AM, wrote: >> Despite my dedication to the command line (tm), for firewalls I need >> some sort of GUI for everything to make sense.  IPtables/IPchains never >> did it for me. > > Try pf on openbsd some time, it's really nice. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS).  Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > > > pfSense if you are a BSD fan or IPCOP is a linux fan.  Both are very good, but pfSense has gotten some really good reviews for it's UI being more intuitive than IPCOP. > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > -- --------------------------------------------------------------- Yours Truly James Forte, Magna Timeshare Software http://www.magna.net/ mailto:James@Magna.Net 1465 South Fort Harrison Ave#207, Clearwater FL 33756 East Coast 407-352-2402 West Coast 415-367-7496 UK +44 80 8178 8506 TrustFax:866-752-3073 THIS COMMUNICATION IS ONLY INTENDED FOR THE RECIPIENT(S) ABOVE. PLEASE DISCARD IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS IN ERROR. ----------------------------------------------------------------- ---1463775222-549491777-1244738692=:5609-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 11 13:13:44 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BHDiA9011696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:13:44 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5BHDi35011693 for slug-track29; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:13:44 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BHDi2E011689 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:13:44 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tk.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tk.nks.net [24.73.112.237]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BHDhdp020676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:13:44 -0400 Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.173]) by nks-ma-100-tk.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BHCSOU009703 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:12:28 -0400 Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 27so578707wfd.1 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:12:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=2eVy9qgp3GSOVkTbOTMEUwrc+HXzO0YKDbiDPM1QL9w=; b=KaEL6AIritlDJupwxe0hlfnjJShlFOYikucW1I+boVCghA9ZBs1oPGn3E4inWu7hrR lRgYe/MSCSAW6UilqvHypAO205nwazi9HlI4k2ChoMYEjMSI5n+RZqFifl0X77SemSea i6k7a53yqVrK+r9Hn9cU+VdEhcpq2Fg6KZ4ww= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=s3aeO/5PS0slHMVV1kbxxmVAGA9wIuHLjfvOTR4WHsmt0uvEfq+3kQZEtzllxvmL00 0MwOTWyy6vm62zdxgr9X7KBHCMvOL78JBhyo7k2VfiIyo+5NBdbwEZcw6InVqKCFgLa7 dcRqsMUrXPG0G65VDUaaVuEBJy4/clzgtU58U= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.113.19 with SMTP id l19mr1190727wfc.10.1244740347432; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:12:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4A30FF15.7010706@verizon.net> References: <4A3055DB.9020700@verizon.net> <125d27dd0906110422k2ae440adic77e48496ce3d972@mail.gmail.com> <4A30FF15.7010706@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:12:27 -0400 Message-ID: <125d27dd0906111012i1fbfc548w2b3f78236f00a2be@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [SLUG] Hosting The Great Satan From: Daniel Jarboe To: slug@nks.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636b42f1a3f0fa2046c15b28b X-HELO: wf-out-1314.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.231, required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL 1.23, BAYES_50 0.00, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net --001636b42f1a3f0fa2046c15b28b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Adapter 1: PCnet-FAST III (internal network, 'Inside') There it is > The "Settings Option on the menu is grayed out, don't know > how to access it. I don't know what the settings are because > I can't access that part of the menu The virtual needs to be "Powered off" to change its hardware configuration at this level. Shut it down and the options will be enabled/changeable. > I want this Virtual Box Windows setup to be able to interact > with an Apache server that is running in the Linux environment > on the same machine. If that's all you need then VB's NAT network configuration will do the job just fine. Good luck, ~ Daniel --001636b42f1a3f0fa2046c15b28b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Adapter 1: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= PCnet-FAST III (internal network, 'Inside')

There it is
<= br>> The "Settings Option on the menu is grayed out, don't know=
> how to access it. I don't know what the settings are because
> I can'= ;t access that part of the menu

The virtual needs to be "Power= ed off" to change its hardware configuration at this level.=A0 Shut it= down and the options will be enabled/changeable.

> I want this V= irtual Box Windows setup to be able to interact
> with an Apache server that is running in the Linux environment
>= on the same machine.

If that's all you need then VB's NAT network config= uration will do the job just fine.

Good luck,
~ Daniel
<= /div> --001636b42f1a3f0fa2046c15b28b-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 11 14:39:57 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BIdvPM023764 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:39:57 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5BIdvsG023761 for slug-track29; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:39:57 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BIdujc023757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:39:57 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tm.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tm.nks.net [24.73.112.239]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BIduFe027576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:39:56 -0400 Received: from vms173001pub.verizon.net (vms173001pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.1]) by nks-ma-100-tm.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BIdKvF017070 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:39:20 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173001.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KL3004W260F3P2H@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:00:16 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A31464C.7000503@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:00:44 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Hosting The Great Satan References: <4A3055DB.9020700@verizon.net> <125d27dd0906110422k2ae440adic77e48496ce3d972@mail.gmail.com> <4A30FF15.7010706@verizon.net> <125d27dd0906111012i1fbfc548w2b3f78236f00a2be@mail.gmail.com> In-reply-to: <125d27dd0906111012i1fbfc548w2b3f78236f00a2be@mail.gmail.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173001pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-0.137, required 6, AWL -1.95, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Daniel Jarboe wrote: > > Adapter 1: PCnet-FAST III (internal network, 'Inside') > > There it is > > > The "Settings Option on the menu is grayed out, don't know > > how to access it. I don't know what the settings are because > > I can't access that part of the menu > > The virtual needs to be "Powered off" to change its hardware > configuration at this level. Shut it down and the options will be > enabled/changeable. > > > I want this Virtual Box Windows setup to be able to interact > > with an Apache server that is running in the Linux environment > > on the same machine. > > If that's all you need then VB's NAT network configuration will do the > job just fine. > > Good luck, > ~ Daniel Hi Daniel! OK, powered off. Now the settings are visible. However, it says the Network is enabled. Oh, change to NAT. Trying that. OK, now I can ping the local host. Now, see if I can find that port on Apache. Just ping it? That doesn't work. Do I have to cd to the "outside" machine somehow? I don't know how to do that. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 11 15:13:01 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BJD119028602 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:13:01 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5BJD130028599 for slug-track29; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:13:01 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BJD023028595 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:13:01 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-ti.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-ti.nks.net [24.73.112.235]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BJD0Gr030579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:13:00 -0400 Received: from mail-pz0-f200.google.com (mail-pz0-f200.google.com [209.85.222.200]) by nks-ma-100-ti.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BJC0HO005635 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:12:00 -0400 Received: by pzk38 with SMTP id 38so132212pzk.7 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:11:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=lfCQPNuT4F37MWQQI3q3mU623ANglevBNv0bMD2CMtY=; b=pD8zeQQ9hl9WSoMn9eAUr9PGMBEGJPLwU8uYRkxp7iCyFpiAisBFUjKKJ51/+boNM5 AkutXlXFV4EXHgLbMQQ3QPtEnlinPIfl24QEAaTCuAqlzkqMNxMU9mhhShlxNoVqtL3B qGFkB6ydJf3rQ3tpJxB0iUD0Y9YqdWdMd9E08= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=FNwIv1WLnxZr1UVizz2wqpgJ8E7qrCskCBy0rhD3O4lavd+FvW0nbJqDzSmqJw6z7B Tm0kVmtfyOX+Ei0dd5wkwL7FuCqv+4yuOkOgyDt1n+tmStthP/+BUJUW2wN2VzV52Wpj JXzfDn+exBHiFY6NfpQaN28vuuC3b6h4VdLgY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.100.1 with SMTP id x1mr1028051wfb.256.1244747519338; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:11:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4A31464C.7000503@verizon.net> References: <4A3055DB.9020700@verizon.net> <125d27dd0906110422k2ae440adic77e48496ce3d972@mail.gmail.com> <4A30FF15.7010706@verizon.net> <125d27dd0906111012i1fbfc548w2b3f78236f00a2be@mail.gmail.com> <4A31464C.7000503@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:11:59 -0400 Message-ID: <125d27dd0906111211h7b67d3cfu319c55c1ae7268d4@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [SLUG] Hosting The Great Satan From: Daniel Jarboe To: slug@nks.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502c8e6b9a81b046c175d0b X-HELO: mail-pz0-f200.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.577, required 6, AWL 0.61, BAYES_20 -0.74, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net --00504502c8e6b9a81b046c175d0b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > OK, now I can ping the local host. Now, see if I can find that > port on Apache. Just ping it? That doesn't work. Do I have to cd > to the "outside" machine somehow? I don't know how to do that. Pete, from the Windows guest point your browser at http://ipaddressofyourlinuxhost:9260/ --00504502c8e6b9a81b046c175d0b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > OK, now I can ping the local host. Now, see if I can find that
> port on Apache. Just ping it? That doesn't work. Do I have to cd
> to the "outside" machine somehow? I don't know how to do that.

Pete, from the Windows guest point your browser at

http://ipaddressofyourlinuxhost:9260/


--00504502c8e6b9a81b046c175d0b-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 11 16:03:41 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BK3ffT003301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:03:41 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5BK3fj7003298 for slug-track29; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:03:41 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BK3ego003294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:03:40 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-d.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-d.nks.net [24.73.112.82]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BK3emK002793 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:03:40 -0400 Received: from vms173019pub.verizon.net (vms173019pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.19]) by nks-ma-100-d.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5BK1nS8030987 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:01:49 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173019.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KL300EY2ANHVKT2@vms173019.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:40:30 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A315DCB.4050103@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:40:59 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Hosting The Great Satan References: <4A3055DB.9020700@verizon.net> <125d27dd0906110422k2ae440adic77e48496ce3d972@mail.gmail.com> <4A30FF15.7010706@verizon.net> <125d27dd0906111012i1fbfc548w2b3f78236f00a2be@mail.gmail.com> <4A31464C.7000503@verizon.net> <125d27dd0906111211h7b67d3cfu319c55c1ae7268d4@mail.gmail.com> In-reply-to: <125d27dd0906111211h7b67d3cfu319c55c1ae7268d4@mail.gmail.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173019pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-1.059, required 6, AWL -2.33, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_20 -0.74, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Daniel Jarboe wrote: > > OK, now I can ping the local host. Now, see if I can find that > > port on Apache. Just ping it? That doesn't work. Do I have to cd > > to the "outside" machine somehow? I don't know how to do that. > > Pete, from the Windows guest point your browser at > > http://ipaddressofyourlinuxhost:9260/ > > Hi Daniel! I should have been able to clipboard the link to it and then edit the contents, but I couldn't. When I typed it in and tried it I got a dns error. "This page cannot be displayed". However, I don't think it is a web page that Apache is serving up on this port, but a database. There is a special front end for it which I don't have, yet. Not sure where to get that, yet. I was just wanting to know if the Virtual box could see its host environment. It might be able to. I did install winders from an original M$ cd in the combo drive, so it can at least see that. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sat Jun 13 14:40:47 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5DIelrl006615 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 14:40:47 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5DIelCp006612 for slug-track29; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 14:40:47 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5DIekGa006608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 14:40:46 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-ta.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-ta.nks.net [24.73.112.227]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5DIek2q003925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 14:40:46 -0400 Received: from vms173009pub.verizon.net (vms173009pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.9]) by nks-ma-100-ta.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5DIdkiY003530 for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 14:39:47 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173009.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KL600D3UV03XKV0@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 12:52:52 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A33E79A.2050400@verizon.net> Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 13:53:30 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: [SLUG] Firefox security upgrade breaks it. Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173009pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.365, required 6, AWL -1.64, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Hi Everybody. Won't start at all after upgrade. Other browsers don't work either. Of course, it requires a restart. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sat Jun 13 14:47:51 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5DIlpme007619 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 14:47:51 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5DIlpAP007616 for slug-track29; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 14:47:51 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5DIlo9V007601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 14:47:50 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tj.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tj.nks.net [24.73.112.236]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5DIlope004474 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 14:47:50 -0400 Received: from vms173007pub.verizon.net (vms173007pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.7]) by nks-ma-100-tj.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5DIlEnp006348 for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 14:47:14 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173007.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KL6004SZVIBKM2B@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 13:03:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A33EA2A.3070506@verizon.net> Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 14:04:26 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: [SLUG] Firefox security upgrade breaks it. Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173007pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-1.819, required 6, AWL -3.83, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net > Hi Everybody. > > Won't start at all after upgrade. Other browsers don't work either. Of > course, it requires a restart. Complete removal and reinstallation does NOT correct the problem. Something about no XBL binding for browser -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). 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From owner-slug-track29 Sat Jun 13 23:01:41 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5E31fNp011978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 23:01:41 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5E31fKu011975 for slug-track29; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 23:01:41 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5E31emn011971 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 23:01:40 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sm.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sm.nks.net [24.73.112.216]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5E31e1S005391 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 23:01:40 -0400 Received: from yw-out-2324.google.com (yw-out-2324.google.com [74.125.46.29]) by nks-ma-100-sm.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5E30pdq032141 for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 23:00:51 -0400 Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 3so1465451ywj.49 for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:00:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-enigmail-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=26Q94dvE+tnIMdCR5A9c4S1SuSnkvotWGNrumVYqyfA=; b=Kpeu6pXnF5hLBk71C8jEVIbuBG11E4E8tdWNIlUIdDsyyWw/fWtqgh7HKmHrdgRpYg vsQUAgVxpFj64acyzjeSpXGucN1xVnp7lhLvlpoGXjvRE8uErYAgqdcf4GIS/OHs42h2 mtuu5auILvE3zkJOWPtiBi/uWrEeJQkAm2Z0U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=eM+vikNsjiuJ4Daqtj+Fpy/hB4iCELDRAVmm80KzavSvBarXwswEV2U0Qu0LOwv/87 2SR5cJvUv/bLmRRkF+Lv8Q5jBBnOCQc07HwBXasIAeMl+9SkRqGt0HPx/z3Qip8IXXiF rjGfnl0P5DI0KRqPwxmUSvJmo0C5T/mZ+yoww= Received: by 10.150.186.21 with SMTP id j21mr10545142ybf.35.1244948450474; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:00:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.2.200? (215-137.35-65.tampabay.res.rr.com [65.35.137.215]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 6sm2810321ywp.54.2009.06.13.20.00.49 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:00:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4A346808.1080008@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 23:01:28 -0400 From: Paul Bransford User-Agent: Mozilla-Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Firefox security upgrade breaks it. References: <4A33EA2A.3070506@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <4A33EA2A.3070506@verizon.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HELO: yw-out-2324.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-2.749, required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL -2.75) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Pete Theisen wrote: >> Hi Everybody. >> >> Won't start at all after upgrade. Other browsers don't work either. Of >> course, it requires a restart. > > Complete removal and reinstallation does NOT correct the problem. > Something about no XBL binding for browser Try removing (better, just moving) your ~/.mozilla folder somewhere else. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sun Jun 14 12:47:27 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5EGlQR6030572 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 12:47:26 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5EGlQb7030569 for slug-track29; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 12:47:26 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5EGlPmZ030565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 12:47:26 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tg.nks.net [24.73.112.233]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5EGlPna030153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 12:47:25 -0400 Received: from vms173019pub.verizon.net (vms173019pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.19]) by nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5EGkS3e032457 for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 12:46:28 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173019.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KL800ED4ML9NIUG@vms173019.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:46:23 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A352989.2060703@verizon.net> Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 12:47:05 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Firefox security upgrade breaks it. References: <4A33EA2A.3070506@verizon.net> <4A346808.1080008@gmail.com> In-reply-to: <4A346808.1080008@gmail.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173019pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-1.32, required 6, AWL -3.33, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Paul Bransford wrote: > Pete Theisen wrote: >>> Hi Everybody. >>> >>> Won't start at all after upgrade. Other browsers don't work either. Of >>> course, it requires a restart. >> Complete removal and reinstallation does NOT correct the problem. >> Something about no XBL binding for browser > > Try removing (better, just moving) your ~/.mozilla folder somewhere else. Hi Paul, That is an idea. However, I wonder if that would mess with t-bird's mind? Don't know, would it? If t-bird fails, then I have no browser and no email. That would be a bad thing. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sun Jun 14 13:10:20 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5EHAKEZ001353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 13:10:20 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5EHAKKk001350 for slug-track29; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 13:10:20 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5EHAKUS001346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 13:10:20 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tm.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tm.nks.net [24.73.112.239]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5EHAJAp031444 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 13:10:20 -0400 Received: from vms173005pub.verizon.net (vms173005pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.5]) by nks-ma-100-tm.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5EH61rk026642 for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 13:06:02 -0400 Received: from news.home ([96.243.182.3]) by vms173005.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KL80075BNCD4OG2@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 12:02:37 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 13:02:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Eben King X-X-Sender: eben@pc.home To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Firefox security upgrade breaks it. In-reply-to: <4A352989.2060703@verizon.net> Message-id: References: <4A33EA2A.3070506@verizon.net> <4A346808.1080008@gmail.com> <4A352989.2060703@verizon.net> User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (DEB 882 2007-12-20) X-GetARealMailreader: Paul Bransford wrote: >> Pete Theisen wrote: >>>> Hi Everybody. >>>> >>>> Won't start at all after upgrade. Other browsers don't work either. Of >>>> course, it requires a restart. >>> Complete removal and reinstallation does NOT correct the problem. >>> Something about no XBL binding for browser >> >> Try removing (better, just moving) your ~/.mozilla folder somewhere else. > > > That is an idea. However, I wonder if that would mess with t-bird's mind? > Don't know, would it? > > If t-bird fails, then I have no browser and no email. That would be a bad > thing. If you move or rename ~/.mozilla instead of deleting it, you can always put it back if that doesn't work out and you'll be back where you are now, which obviously works for sending email. Just make sure you don't: 1. mv ~/.mozilla ~/.mozilla.old 2. try stuff, which turns out not to work 3. mv ~/.mozilla.old ~/.mozilla because you might end up with ~/.mozilla/.mozilla.old if step 2 makes ~/.mozilla anew. -- -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81 Q: What did one photon say to the other photon? A: I'm sick and tired of your interference. -- thebigmike1983 on Fark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sun Jun 14 14:36:23 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5EIaNqU013440 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:36:23 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5EIaN44013437 for slug-track29; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:36:23 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5EIaNVD013433 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:36:23 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tj.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tj.nks.net [24.73.112.236]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5EIaNhR003661 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:36:23 -0400 Received: from web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.125.98]) by nks-ma-100-tj.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5EIZuOp000706 for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:35:56 -0400 Received: (qmail 48404 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Jun 2009 18:35:55 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1245004555; bh=5XFL4jIu5PAUNpXPkSew0XJGp81HXzgpnqjJGh3MFmE=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=A9ytPqDDSGCGj9uJwsyiozkzBZsa21ngXOCPrCAw0cpTRgqHLJxCnRC0PV7Kom64+JYbFBl5FDoXCGBRpK1Y/sFw0V0VXNYBk2klevKfT60Ke0HyoY7OgGnHAO3hASXxWVz5I0t4ugAu9y6iSZ6eKZccwLcSXxVLwhmUPuCg+Rw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=aSb7B23GrLNzSRupEbCRCCOf/GOQ53sVaca/KwQESzvOUdghGmsyiE26dGV/KRUOD5gMBoHFIkkXsFUHTZftmRh1s2EmIIGiQH1OVWtaeaOOLZtnwNHzyr8e2WuS/2hxZrjnVLgPjAW2CpmvoZ6/2GvGpgGpye94TBYSSyohBHA=; Message-ID: <789956.47936.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: Tdgva8YVM1ma7s8UgwIrdNJuxaEgdrSD0S5nM8yZN7Fs_BnbZA0dLOV8c6VNRFviOuM61uI1HSIuh.gu0IbjaiLt5ZaivcG2GqpKNJXS.s9QWhpFyD7Ek8vTWmqZtOTBzEtvLEeIyZrkNdqCSTAGr0hzRTUnmRhJUj_XZdOlUDTM.J3FNdcdUx8IfFIKAmqRzkMITCOPaC6TBdkQxemcaenQFOp_sXdkcIuWy6L4GXVo0mmB1kyfWwkMN_1QW6UtXBRNFgiMgP7JhHHKinamdHzXvKJ5t9LDm7jiQ4M5DQZnsdfKSe.nhYwHh_l.oEx8EhAre0T7EdjhCwItoWyH5r9VwcCwY9lsaHE85DAbUg-- Received: from [68.142.242.114] by web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:35:55 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15 Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:35:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Setheck Subject: Re: [SLUG] Firefox security upgrade breaks it. To: "slug@nks.net" Cc: "slug@nks.net" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-HELO: web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.251, required 6, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_youhavewon 0.25) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Don't remove your mozilla folder... Run firefox from the console with the help flag. You should we an option to rebuild profile of similar. I had to do it before... All you do is create a new firefox profile and import all your stuff from the old profile. This fixes most firefox troubles. I wish I could give more exact help but I am not near the computer... Sent from my iPhone On Jun 14, 2009, at 1:02 PM, Eben King wrote: On Sun, 14 Jun 2009, Pete Theisen wrote: Paul Bransford wrote: Pete Theisen wrote: Hi Everybody. Won't start at all after upgrade. Other browsers don't work either. Of course, it requires a restart. Complete removal and reinstallation does NOT correct the problem. Something about no XBL binding for browser Try removing (better, just moving) your ~/.mozilla folder somewhere else. That is an idea. However, I wonder if that would mess with t-bird's mind? Don't know, would it? If t-bird fails, then I have no browser and no email. That would be a bad thing. If you move or rename ~/.mozilla instead of deleting it, you can always put it back if that doesn't work out and you'll be back where you are now, which obviously works for sending email. Just make sure you don't: 1. mv ~/.mozilla ~/.mozilla.old 2. try stuff, which turns out not to work 3. mv ~/.mozilla.old ~/.mozilla because you might end up with ~/.mozilla/.mozilla.old if step 2 makes ~/.mozilla anew. -- -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81 Q: What did one photon say to the other photon? A: I'm sick and tired of your interference. -- thebigmike1983 on Fark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sun Jun 14 14:37:57 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5EIbvfo013658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:37:57 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5EIbvxS013655 for slug-track29; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:37:57 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5EIbu0l013651 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:37:57 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sm.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sm.nks.net [24.73.112.216]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5EIbuh7003725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:37:56 -0400 Received: from web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.125.98]) by nks-ma-100-sm.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5EIZubJ026107 for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:35:56 -0400 Received: (qmail 48404 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Jun 2009 18:35:55 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1245004555; bh=5XFL4jIu5PAUNpXPkSew0XJGp81HXzgpnqjJGh3MFmE=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=A9ytPqDDSGCGj9uJwsyiozkzBZsa21ngXOCPrCAw0cpTRgqHLJxCnRC0PV7Kom64+JYbFBl5FDoXCGBRpK1Y/sFw0V0VXNYBk2klevKfT60Ke0HyoY7OgGnHAO3hASXxWVz5I0t4ugAu9y6iSZ6eKZccwLcSXxVLwhmUPuCg+Rw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=aSb7B23GrLNzSRupEbCRCCOf/GOQ53sVaca/KwQESzvOUdghGmsyiE26dGV/KRUOD5gMBoHFIkkXsFUHTZftmRh1s2EmIIGiQH1OVWtaeaOOLZtnwNHzyr8e2WuS/2hxZrjnVLgPjAW2CpmvoZ6/2GvGpgGpye94TBYSSyohBHA=; Message-ID: <789956.47936.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: Tdgva8YVM1ma7s8UgwIrdNJuxaEgdrSD0S5nM8yZN7Fs_BnbZA0dLOV8c6VNRFviOuM61uI1HSIuh.gu0IbjaiLt5ZaivcG2GqpKNJXS.s9QWhpFyD7Ek8vTWmqZtOTBzEtvLEeIyZrkNdqCSTAGr0hzRTUnmRhJUj_XZdOlUDTM.J3FNdcdUx8IfFIKAmqRzkMITCOPaC6TBdkQxemcaenQFOp_sXdkcIuWy6L4GXVo0mmB1kyfWwkMN_1QW6UtXBRNFgiMgP7JhHHKinamdHzXvKJ5t9LDm7jiQ4M5DQZnsdfKSe.nhYwHh_l.oEx8EhAre0T7EdjhCwItoWyH5r9VwcCwY9lsaHE85DAbUg-- Received: from [68.142.242.114] by web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:35:55 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15 Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:35:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Setheck Subject: Re: [SLUG] Firefox security upgrade breaks it. To: "slug@nks.net" Cc: "slug@nks.net" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-HELO: web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=2.159, required 6, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_youhavewon 0.25, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: ss X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Don't remove your mozilla folder... Run firefox from the console with the help flag. You should we an option to rebuild profile of similar. I had to do it before... All you do is create a new firefox profile and import all your stuff from the old profile. This fixes most firefox troubles. I wish I could give more exact help but I am not near the computer... Sent from my iPhone On Jun 14, 2009, at 1:02 PM, Eben King wrote: On Sun, 14 Jun 2009, Pete Theisen wrote: Paul Bransford wrote: Pete Theisen wrote: Hi Everybody. Won't start at all after upgrade. Other browsers don't work either. Of course, it requires a restart. Complete removal and reinstallation does NOT correct the problem. Something about no XBL binding for browser Try removing (better, just moving) your ~/.mozilla folder somewhere else. That is an idea. However, I wonder if that would mess with t-bird's mind? Don't know, would it? If t-bird fails, then I have no browser and no email. That would be a bad thing. If you move or rename ~/.mozilla instead of deleting it, you can always put it back if that doesn't work out and you'll be back where you are now, which obviously works for sending email. Just make sure you don't: 1. mv ~/.mozilla ~/.mozilla.old 2. try stuff, which turns out not to work 3. mv ~/.mozilla.old ~/.mozilla because you might end up with ~/.mozilla/.mozilla.old if step 2 makes ~/.mozilla anew. -- -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81 Q: What did one photon say to the other photon? A: I'm sick and tired of your interference. -- thebigmike1983 on Fark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sun Jun 14 16:35:28 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5EKZSTA030169 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:35:28 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5EKZSZC030166 for slug-track29; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:35:28 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5EKZRmA030162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:35:27 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-so.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-so.nks.net [24.73.112.218]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5EKZRLL018143 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:35:27 -0400 Received: from vms173003pub.verizon.net (vms173003pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.3]) by nks-ma-100-so.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5EKOe0e013061 for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:24:40 -0400 Received: from news.home ([96.243.182.3]) by vms173003.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KL800J21WJBFP63@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 15:21:11 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:21:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Eben King X-X-Sender: eben@pc.home To: SLUG Mailing List Subject: [SLUG] gnuplot Message-id: User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (DEB 882 2007-12-20) X-GetARealMailreader: ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 18:56:40 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5EMueOH017480 for slug-track29; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 18:56:40 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5EMud7k017476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 18:56:39 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sp.nks.net [24.73.112.219]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5EMud18027568 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 18:56:39 -0400 Received: from vms173003pub.verizon.net (vms173003pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.3]) by nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5EMsYPt031950 for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 18:54:34 -0400 Received: from news.home ([96.243.182.3]) by vms173003.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KL9009ZW3MS9UL2@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:54:29 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 18:54:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Eben King X-X-Sender: eben@pc.home To: SLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [SLUG] gnuplot In-reply-to: Message-id: References: User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (DEB 882 2007-12-20) X-GetARealMailreader: I made a graph in gnuplot of Firefox's memory use (yay me), to determine > whether it has a massive memory leak just before it crashes. OO Calc did it, > but it was a PITA to reconfigure each time new data came in. I have GP set > to display the y axis in bytes * powers of two. For instance, instead of > 1073741824 it shows 30 (2^30=1073741824). Easy enough. But, instead of ... > 25, 29, 30, ... I'd like to see ... 256M, 512M, 1G, ... . Is that possible? Found out how: set ytics ("16M" 25, "32M" 26 ...) -- -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP http://royalty.mine.nu:81 SAGITTARIUS: All your friends are laughing behind your back... kill them. Take down all those naked pictures of Ernest Borgnine you've got hanging in your den. -- Weird Al, _Your Horoscope for Today_ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sun Jun 14 19:19:48 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5ENJmHO020800 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:19:48 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5ENJmHx020797 for slug-track29; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:19:48 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5ENJlXO020793 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:19:48 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-ti.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-ti.nks.net [24.73.112.235]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5ENJlXu029172 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:19:47 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-318.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-318.bluehost.com [67.222.54.250]) by nks-ma-100-ti.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5ENJ3Zk026013 for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:19:04 -0400 Received: (qmail 6270 invoked by uid 0); 14 Jun 2009 23:19:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy6.bluehost.com with SMTP; 14 Jun 2009 23:19:03 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=FpmqT5ccNoz7oH9b5aw2AfmSRddQmOFWO/6Y2/jeD28rwWLkK24pXbaN/QtBhGCPjgvQBK0ht3Xhhsp46n7WBbbdEtkCofLe8uU79q2kyr/le3ms7s3KVyQVX9WBbdm6; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MFyyc-0008DQ-VR for slug@nks.net; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:19:03 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AC762190883F for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:19:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:19:01 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E; url=http://www.scottgrizzard.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/0x2496506E.asc X-Stationery: 0.4.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-318.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.985, required 6, AWL -0.60, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_searchhttpgoogle 0.75, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, J_CHICKENPOX_33 0.60) X-Spam-Status: No Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by slug-list-00.nks.net id n5ENJmXN020794 Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hello Sluggers, I am being forced to use "that other OS" in a project, and I had a question about email malware protection. Now that I think about it, I think it applies to Linux too, especially if you are using Mozilla. Obviously, if you are encrypting your email (with either gnupg or S/MIME), the anti-malware on your mail server (and gateway firewall, and gateway mail-server, all running different vendor's products) is completely useless, since these applications can't peer into an encrypted email just as everyone else can't. My question is, "when does the /client's/ anti-malware check incoming emails, before or after decryption by the mail client? I would assume, since Outlook supports S/MIME out of the box, that virus scanners that integrate with Outlook would look as soon as the email was decrypted, before the user interacted with it... but I can't see the source code to make sure. GPG4Win is not natively supported, so who knows if it checks at all? Ditto with Thunderbird... when does it check? With Thunderbird, I am especially worried about people sending infected /files/, not embedded macros. If someone gets an infected /document/ in the mail, they may open it (or put it on a server) /before/ it is scanned. Any ideas? I did a Google search, but did not find an answer to this question, and I think it is worth asking. - - Scott Grizzard http://www.scottgrizzard.com/ scott@scottgrizzard.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAko1hWAACgkQARR1QiSWUG7hwgCfcuLUH4+C0GTAenfgrEY/rWNf MBAAn3KMnDI213r8Vch1xk3VwLtYf5Fz =gE54 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sun Jun 14 23:41:53 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5F3frQd025027 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:41:53 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5F3frAF025024 for slug-track29; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:41:53 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5F3fqKg025020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:41:53 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-d.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-d.nks.net [24.73.112.82]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5F3fqYG013106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:41:52 -0400 Received: from vms173003pub.verizon.net (vms173003pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.3]) by nks-ma-100-d.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5F3f2sM028933 for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:41:02 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173003.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KL900HXPGW8HU1B@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:40:58 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:41:42 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> In-reply-to: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173003pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-0.477, required 6, AWL -2.49, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Scott Grizzard wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hello Sluggers, > > I am being forced to use "that other OS" in a project, and I had a > question about email malware protection. Hi Scott, If your project for the client does not directly involve email, just set up firewall, anti malware and turn off all "Windows Services" that your client is not using. Then set up a Linux box or notebook for your own email at that site and call it a day. Strongly recommend the client also set up a Linux box for all Internet use, and clearly disclaim any liability if your advice in this regard is not adhered to. If your "other OS" project could work disconnected from the outside Internet so much the better. Micro$oft and Internet just do not mix. Never trust them together. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 15 00:02:26 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5F42QQS027943 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:02:26 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5F42Quk027940 for slug-track29; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:02:26 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5F42PjQ027936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:02:25 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-d.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-d.nks.net [24.73.112.82]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5F42NGH014717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:02:25 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-07.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-07.bluehost.com [69.89.17.207]) by nks-ma-100-d.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5F40UWA030464 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:00:30 -0400 Received: (qmail 22492 invoked by uid 0); 15 Jun 2009 04:00:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2009 04:00:28 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=aNMd0wecUSOH7euhYrG94UNdvScGLPzhZ1MzUo2flg2ODXNwOSwb8bNGa42ou0RlgYew2OJotHTfivQKcYbO9I5N+9tEsajhdlFASjD9MMEuPfyR3Q8IzuYwTwOTGTk7; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MG3My-0006M2-D5 for slug@nks.net; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:00:28 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B3F19190883F for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:01:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:00:27 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E; url=http://www.scottgrizzard.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/0x2496506E.asc X-Stationery: 0.4.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-07.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.389, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, HELO_MISMATCH_COM 0.55, J_CHICKENPOX_53 0.60) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by slug-list-00.nks.net id n5F42PjP027937 Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I agree completely and wholeheartedly about your recommendations - Window$ is evil and vulnerable beyond compare. /Given/ /that/, can I send/receive encrypted email in a way that is still scanned by antivirus on the client's computer? In an ideal world, the recipient would be using Linux, and there would be no need, but, in an ideal world, blah blah blah. Iff I use Windows, and if I use gnupg encryption (or S/MIME), would the anti-malware on the local computer scan the message /before/ it was read, or is the anti-malware bypassed completely, leaving a giant security hole no matter what OS I am using? I have been looking all over the web for an answer, and I have found /nothing/ so far. - - Scott Grizzard http://www.scottgrizzard.com/ scott@scottgrizzard.com Pete Theisen wrote: > Scott Grizzard wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Hello Sluggers, >> >> I am being forced to use "that other OS" in a project, and I had a >> question about email malware protection. > > Hi Scott, > > If your project for the client does not directly involve email, just set > up firewall, anti malware and turn off all "Windows Services" that your > client is not using. Then set up a Linux box or notebook for your own > email at that site and call it a day. > > Strongly recommend the client also set up a Linux box for all Internet > use, and clearly disclaim any liability if your advice in this regard is > not adhered to. > > If your "other OS" project could work disconnected from the outside > Internet so much the better. > > Micro$oft and Internet just do not mix. Never trust them together. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAko1x1kACgkQARR1QiSWUG5XrgCeOBicaNm9p0w9Gogd4gFDQhTd uKQAn0RuMerfwehOUv2GztMu5po3gYsq =+FLV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 15 00:53:38 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5F4rcrG002644 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:53:38 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5F4rc7s002641 for slug-track29; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:53:38 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5F4rXS4002619 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:53:34 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-a.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-a.nks.net [24.73.112.79]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5F4rXEi018333 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:53:33 -0400 Received: from haylee.gendns10.com (haylee.gendns10.com [216.180.234.5]) by nks-ma-100-a.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5F4qnmf019224 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:52:49 -0400 Received: from pool-71-98-170-231.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.98.170.231]:50618 helo=sherman.mars.lan) by haylee.gendns10.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MG4Bc-0000oT-9J; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:52:48 -0400 Received: by sherman.mars.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id ABF6956A58; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:52:45 -0400 (EDT) To: slug@nks.net, slug-announce@nks.net, cola@stump.algebra.com Subject: [SLUG] Suncoast LUG Meetings Message-Id: <20090615045245.ABF6956A58@sherman.mars.lan> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:52:45 -0400 (EDT) From: paulf@quillandmouse.com (Paul M Foster) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - haylee.gendns10.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - nks.net X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - quillandmouse.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-HELO: haylee.gendns10.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-8.611, required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL 0.94, BAYES_50 0.00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, HOST_MISMATCH_NET 0.31, WGL_paulf_Pat_quillandmouse_Pdo_com -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net ************************************* * Suncoast Linux Users Group (SLUG) * * Meeting Schedule * ************************************* TAMPA **************************************************** 14 July 19:00-21:00 Tampa (Usually Tuesday, usually first half of month) Hillsborough Community College Dale Mabry Campus Technology Bldg, Rm 426 4001 Tampa Bay Blvd Tampa, FL See http://www.hccfl.edu/pollock/Docs/DM-Map.htm for directions. *********************************************************** ACTIVITIES: Meetings may include: 1) Presentation: As indicated. 2) Question & Answer Session. 3) Raffle and free stuff! Bring your boxes, questions, problems, and plenty of good cheer! (And don't forget to start your installs early!) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 15 06:43:49 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FAhnQx019546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 06:43:49 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5FAhn1b019543 for slug-track29; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 06:43:49 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FAhnwf019539 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 06:43:49 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tk.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tk.nks.net [24.73.112.237]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FAhnjN005188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 06:43:49 -0400 Received: from vms173007pub.verizon.net (vms173007pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.7]) by nks-ma-100-tk.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FAc7hA017959 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 06:38:07 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173007.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KLA00BHW07AEB10@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 05:38:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A3624B5.2080409@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 06:38:45 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> In-reply-to: <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173007pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.074, required 6, AWL -2.69, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_searchhttpgoogle 0.75, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Scott Grizzard wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I agree completely and wholeheartedly about your recommendations - > Window$ is evil and vulnerable beyond compare. /Given/ /that/, can I > send/receive encrypted email in a way that is still scanned by antivirus > on the client's computer? > > In an ideal world, the recipient would be using Linux, and there would > be no need, but, in an ideal world, blah blah blah. > > Iff I use Windows, and if I use gnupg encryption (or S/MIME), would the > anti-malware on the local computer scan the message /before/ it was > read, or is the anti-malware bypassed completely, leaving a giant > security hole no matter what OS I am using? > > I have been looking all over the web for an answer, and I have found > /nothing/ so far. Hi WScott! I sent you a link to the first article, the next ten of the four million probably are interesting as well, http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=linux+gateway+server&aq=f&oq=&aqi= -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 15 07:18:29 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FBITj2024473 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:18:29 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5FBISW1024470 for slug-track29; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:18:28 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FBISjS024466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:18:28 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sb.nks.net [24.73.112.205]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FBIR9S012409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:18:28 -0400 Received: from vms173001pub.verizon.net (vms173001pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.1]) by nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FB4oAu016972 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:04:51 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173001.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KL9002TTZZN99C8@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 05:33:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A3623A2.80801@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 06:34:10 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> In-reply-to: <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173001pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=3.946, required 6, AWL -4.06, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, DISGUISE_PORN_MUNDANE 2.30, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71, J_CHICKENPOX_12 0.60, J_CHICKENPOX_53 0.60, SARE_OBFUPORNO 2.50) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: sss X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Scott Grizzard wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I agree completely and wholeheartedly about your recommendations - > Window$ is evil and vulnerable beyond compare. /Given/ /that/, can I > send/receive encrypted email in a way that is still scanned by antivirus > on the client's computer? > > In an ideal world, the recipient would be using Linux, and there would > be no need, but, in an ideal world, blah blah blah. > > Iff I use Windows, and if I use gnupg encryption (or S/MIME), would the > anti-malware on the local computer scan the message /before/ it was > read, or is the anti-malware bypassed completely, leaving a giant > security hole no matter what OS I am using? > > I have been looking all over the web for an answer, and I have found > /nothing/ so far. Hi Scott, Now WHAT does THAT tell you? If you find nothing there very well might be NOTHING! Tell the client, don't use Window$ on the outside Internet. Everything that ventures outside of the office should be Linux. Unless they are rich. Then they can try mac, if they like. That said, you could arrange to have it scanned first by setting up a Linux firewall/Internet server that did everything you wanted done to all the packets before it let them out to the rest of the office. All traffic to or from the outside world through this physical box. http://www.linux.com/archive/articles/113821 That way, the Window$ junkies would never see Linux, yet everything they saw would be sanitized. Of course, then the boss couldn't hole up and watch p*rn. I think these are called Linux gateway servers or something like that. >>> I am being forced to use "that other OS" in a project, and I had a >>> question about email malware protection. >> Hi Scott, >> >> If your project for the client does not directly involve email, just set >> up firewall, anti malware and turn off all "Windows Services" that your >> client is not using. Then set up a Linux box or notebook for your own >> email at that site and call it a day. >> >> Strongly recommend the client also set up a Linux box for all Internet >> use, and clearly disclaim any liability if your advice in this regard is >> not adhered to. >> >> If your "other OS" project could work disconnected from the outside >> Internet so much the better. >> >> Micro$oft and Internet just do not mix. Never trust them together. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAko1x1kACgkQARR1QiSWUG5XrgCeOBicaNm9p0w9Gogd4gFDQhTd > uKQAn0RuMerfwehOUv2GztMu5po3gYsq > =+FLV > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 15 12:55:09 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FGt946006770 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:55:09 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5FGt95I006767 for slug-track29; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:55:09 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FGt8ao006763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:55:09 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tg.nks.net [24.73.112.233]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FGt8k8020670 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:55:08 -0400 Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.121]) by nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FGrj8d031483 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:53:45 -0400 Received: from Darth ([68.205.9.122]) by cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090615165344591.XWGH26718@cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com> for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:53:44 +0000 From: "Ken Elliott" To: References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> <4A3623A2.80801@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <4A3623A2.80801@verizon.net> Subject: RE: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:54:13 -0400 Message-ID: <001501c9edd9$e9cc3450$bd649cf0$@rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcntqyFDpRT8LbDtQWSVuedujS6DfQALTDxw Content-Language: en-us X-HELO: cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-0.174, required 6, AWL -9.47, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, DISGUISE_PORN_MUNDANE 2.30, J_CHICKENPOX_12 0.60, J_CHICKENPOX_53 0.60, NO_DNS_FOR_FROM 3.20, SARE_OBFUPORNO 2.50) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Pete >> Micro$oft and Internet just do not mix. Never trust them together. Pete >> Tell the client, don't use Window$ on the outside Internet. You can't tell clients what to do. Photoshop and AutoCAD users can't use Linux. Scott is trying to resolve an issue and seeks data. But your responses are simply inaccurate dogma that does nothing to help him. Scott >> > Window$ is evil and vulnerable beyond compare. Oh Scott, not you too? A product is evil? Sorry, a product can't be evil. A person can. Linux, Mac and Windows all have security holes and all can be compromised. Compaired to BSD, all three are like swiss cheese. Bashing Windows makes Linux fans look like nuts and hurts the cause. I have run many differnet operating systems and all can be used safely if properly configured. Windows is full of problems, but anyone that thinks Linux is a magic bullet is due for a surprise. All systems need proper configureation and management if you want to be "internet safe". This is a Linux advocacy mail list, not an anti-Microsoft mail list. Those are quite different things. Can we stick to Pro-Linux activities and stop the useless bashing? Ken Elliott ===================== -----Original Message----- From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Pete Theisen Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 6:34 AM To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS Scott Grizzard wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I agree completely and wholeheartedly about your recommendations - > Window$ is evil and vulnerable beyond compare. /Given/ /that/, can I > send/receive encrypted email in a way that is still scanned by antivirus > on the client's computer? > > In an ideal world, the recipient would be using Linux, and there would > be no need, but, in an ideal world, blah blah blah. > > Iff I use Windows, and if I use gnupg encryption (or S/MIME), would the > anti-malware on the local computer scan the message /before/ it was > read, or is the anti-malware bypassed completely, leaving a giant > security hole no matter what OS I am using? > > I have been looking all over the web for an answer, and I have found > /nothing/ so far. Hi Scott, Now WHAT does THAT tell you? If you find nothing there very well might be NOTHING! Tell the client, don't use Window$ on the outside Internet. Everything that ventures outside of the office should be Linux. Unless they are rich. Then they can try mac, if they like. That said, you could arrange to have it scanned first by setting up a Linux firewall/Internet server that did everything you wanted done to all the packets before it let them out to the rest of the office. All traffic to or from the outside world through this physical box. http://www.linux.com/archive/articles/113821 That way, the Window$ junkies would never see Linux, yet everything they saw would be sanitized. Of course, then the boss couldn't hole up and watch p*rn. I think these are called Linux gateway servers or something like that. >>> I am being forced to use "that other OS" in a project, and I had a >>> question about email malware protection. >> Hi Scott, >> >> If your project for the client does not directly involve email, just set >> up firewall, anti malware and turn off all "Windows Services" that your >> client is not using. Then set up a Linux box or notebook for your own >> email at that site and call it a day. >> >> Strongly recommend the client also set up a Linux box for all Internet >> use, and clearly disclaim any liability if your advice in this regard is >> not adhered to. >> >> If your "other OS" project could work disconnected from the outside >> Internet so much the better. >> >> Micro$oft and Internet just do not mix. Never trust them together. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAko1x1kACgkQARR1QiSWUG5XrgCeOBicaNm9p0w9Gogd4gFDQhTd > uKQAn0RuMerfwehOUv2GztMu5po3gYsq > =+FLV > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 15 13:46:49 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FHknnL014048 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:46:49 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5FHknmd014044 for slug-track29; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:46:49 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FHkmSg014030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:46:48 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tk.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tk.nks.net [24.73.112.237]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FHke2S030159 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:46:48 -0400 Received: from vms173011pub.verizon.net (vms173011pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.11]) by nks-ma-100-tk.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FHhBkI031698 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:43:11 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173011.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KLA00271JL0HLO9@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:36:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A3686D5.4080909@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:37:25 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> <4A3623A2.80801@verizon.net> <001501c9edd9$e9cc3450$bd649cf0$@rr.com> In-reply-to: <001501c9edd9$e9cc3450$bd649cf0$@rr.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173011pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.508, required 6, AWL -2.35, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_ithinkloveyou 0.25, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71, J_CHICKENPOX_53 0.60) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Ken Elliott wrote: > Pete >> Micro$oft and Internet just do not mix. Never trust them together. > > Pete >> Tell the client, don't use Window$ on the outside Internet. > > You can't tell clients what to do. Photoshop and AutoCAD users can't use > Linux. Hi Ken, They can use Photoshop and AutoCad without email on the same machine can't they? If they pay him for advice he certainly should tell them what to do, he isn't earning his pay if he doesn't. I notice that you offer no suggestion even though you supposedly know what to do. > > Scott is trying to resolve an issue and seeks data. But your responses are > simply inaccurate dogma that does nothing to help him. I think the Linux gateway server is his best bet. Isn't that suggestion "data"? > > Scott >> > Window$ is evil and vulnerable beyond compare. > > Oh Scott, not you too? A product is evil? Sorry, a product can't be evil. > A person can. Oh, Ken! Have you ever driven a 1971 Mercury? Of course products can be evil. Window$ is about the best example of a Trojan Horse I can think of. "This will operate your computer", for someone else. Now, on the other hand, if you have the solution for his problem that doesn't involve Linux, I must say I would love to hear it and I think we all would. This ought to be good. :-) -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 15 13:55:22 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FHtMjU015241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:55:22 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5FHtMa3015238 for slug-track29; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:55:22 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FHtLFL015223 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:55:21 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-ta.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-ta.nks.net [24.73.112.227]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FHtCk0001073 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:55:21 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-14.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-14.bluehost.com [69.89.18.114]) by nks-ma-100-ta.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5FHnktQ021728 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:49:47 -0400 Received: (qmail 19085 invoked by uid 0); 15 Jun 2009 17:49:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2009 17:49:45 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:X-Identified-User; b=teHcVPoIhUUnVCGkf8fHIQoKqLzFlqOxqseWwPQXzkUJ0nrKXvlWdBcahQr6b09xSD8HlGFW8Qbo7l7rFPi7g2eF4jmnSQlMq/amGL0ztTsxPNLYrOUo3XzsFH8QPYY9; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MGGJU-0002Yy-Qy for slug@nks.net; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:49:45 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CD9BC190883F for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:50:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A3689B7.30804@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:49:43 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> <4A3624B5.2080409@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <4A3624B5.2080409@verizon.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E; url=http://www.scottgrizzard.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/0x2496506E.asc X-Stationery: 0.4.9 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms050301040807010203050707" X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-14.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.986, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_searchhttpgoogle 0.75, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms050301040807010203050707 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 These are all about setting up a gateway server - my problem is "what if you are doing end-to-end encryption, where the mail servers /can't/ read the email. I understand the idea of doing encryption on the gateway, but if you are encrypting on the local machines (using pgp for example), how do you do antivirus? - - Scott Grizzard http://www.scottgrizzard.com/ scott@scottgrizzard.com Pete Theisen wrote: > Scott Grizzard wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> I agree completely and wholeheartedly about your recommendations - >> Window$ is evil and vulnerable beyond compare. /Given/ /that/, can I >> send/receive encrypted email in a way that is still scanned by antivirus >> on the client's computer? >> >> In an ideal world, the recipient would be using Linux, and there would >> be no need, but, in an ideal world, blah blah blah. >> >> Iff I use Windows, and if I use gnupg encryption (or S/MIME), would the >> anti-malware on the local computer scan the message /before/ it was >> read, or is the anti-malware bypassed completely, leaving a giant >> security hole no matter what OS I am using? >> >> I have been looking all over the web for an answer, and I have found >> /nothing/ so far. > > Hi WScott! > > I sent you a link to the first article, the next ten of the four million > probably are interesting as well, > > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=linux+gateway+server&aq=f&oq=&aqi= -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAko2ibUACgkQARR1QiSWUG4KPgCggv4llqsf2w74IUd9eoV952uw tbMAnjvj6AwLY1mK0DcxtIkPiNh7Mgb4 =72xt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------ms050301040807010203050707 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIRVTCC BN0wggPFoAMCAQICEHGS++YZX6xNEoV0cTSiGKcwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwezELMAkGA1UE BhMCR0IxGzAZBgNVBAgMEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4GA1UEBwwHU2FsZm9yZDEa 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From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 15 14:07:40 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FI7eKx017020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:07:40 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5FI7eFO017017 for slug-track29; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:07:40 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FI7erT017013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:07:40 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-i.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-i.nks.net [24.73.112.87]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FI7cSi005099 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:07:39 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-307.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-307.bluehost.com [67.222.53.253]) by nks-ma-100-i.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5FI3Od3014783 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:03:25 -0400 Received: (qmail 11420 invoked by uid 0); 15 Jun 2009 18:03:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy6.bluehost.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2009 18:03:06 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:X-Identified-User; b=i0BRCDhFbrlsAbpvN3XfzQAZ+0MsWidd7ZStmLg+LrsEXUX018IAhSuh+VdwcAL0vMu6JLGQZvs8of9CAEilS+qP64ny7AwU3FnQSa+6S25j11yBvYJ5FiXx3uREmoFx; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MGGWQ-0003jY-0R for slug@nks.net; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:03:06 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 38D74190883F for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A368CD8.3090606@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:03:04 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> <4A3623A2.80801@verizon.net> <001501c9edd9$e9cc3450$bd649cf0$@rr.com> <4A3686D5.4080909@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <4A3686D5.4080909@verizon.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E; url=http://www.scottgrizzard.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/0x2496506E.asc X-Stationery: 0.4.9 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms050804000809000901010502" X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-307.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.789, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, HELO_MISMATCH_COM 0.55, UPPERCASE_25_50 0.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms050804000809000901010502 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Pete Theisen wrote: > > Oh, Ken! Have you ever driven a 1971 Mercury? Of course products can be > evil. LMAO - I /Love/ that line. :) :) - - Scott Grizzard http://www.scottgrizzard.com/ scott@scottgrizzard.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAko2jNMACgkQARR1QiSWUG5a/gCgk6P4a20SRnx0VaeEWZX77dxc opUAn1wmNLIre2BcU0jNmNRjkYj4j82+ =XvIX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------ms050804000809000901010502 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIRVTCC BN0wggPFoAMCAQICEHGS++YZX6xNEoV0cTSiGKcwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwezELMAkGA1UE BhMCR0IxGzAZBgNVBAgMEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4GA1UEBwwHU2FsZm9yZDEa MBgGA1UECgwRQ29tb2RvIENBIExpbWl0ZWQxITAfBgNVBAMMGEFBQSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBT ZXJ2aWNlczAeFw0wNDAxMDEwMDAwMDBaFw0yODEyMzEyMzU5NTlaMIGuMQswCQYDVQQGEwJV 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From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 15 14:08:05 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FI84mx017093 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:08:04 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5FI84Ic017090 for slug-track29; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:08:04 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FI84XR017086 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:08:04 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sp.nks.net [24.73.112.219]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FI7p7d005133 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:08:04 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-307.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-307.bluehost.com [67.222.53.253]) by nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5FHxb4L005451 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:59:38 -0400 Received: (qmail 31315 invoked by uid 0); 15 Jun 2009 17:59:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy6.bluehost.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2009 17:59:37 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:X-Identified-User; b=KNuv3xjAgUGl49qJru70wy3DE1HWYKlEGW8zpgm9HimqASV52zqrBjifs+LQ5dzKvXKmuy979ZfFDzHjepFBnC4IsgGkLU57A3T5zexRh8sNCIHO12t6imo2klII0r9q; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MGGT2-00010n-PY for slug@nks.net; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:59:37 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E2204190883F for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:00:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A368C07.8020608@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:59:35 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: {SPAM?} Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> <4A3623A2.80801@verizon.net> <001501c9edd9$e9cc3450$bd649cf0$@rr.com> In-Reply-To: <001501c9edd9$e9cc3450$bd649cf0$@rr.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E; url=http://www.scottgrizzard.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/0x2496506E.asc X-Stationery: 0.4.9 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms090302040706040009080606" X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-307.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=6.236, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, DISGUISE_PORN_MUNDANE 2.30, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, J_CHICKENPOX_12 0.60, J_CHICKENPOX_53 0.60, SARE_OBFUPORNO 2.50) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: ssssss X-Spam-Status: Yes Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms090302040706040009080606 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I agree Ken - I was trying to get /past/ arguing about the operating system, and focus on the issue - i.e. "Windows is evil, fine, granted, yada yada yada... now /given/ that fact, and that I am still stuck with it, how do I resolve the issue?" But now that you mention it, half my user "virus panics" aren't viruses at all, but misbehaving Windows drivers. Mac resolved the issue by controlling the hardware you run Mac on, and Linux resolved the issue by being open and letting the users fix things. Microsoft hasn't resolved the issue at all. If you run Windows on Mac hardware, you don't have those issues, because Mac gave a #@$% about the drivers they give you in bootcamp, and made good ones. Microsoft isn't so much evil as frustrating. Back to the original issue... I emailed a couple of the anti-malware software companies, and no one has gotten back to me yet. I can't believe this is such a complicated issue - does anyone /not/ /using/ /Linux/ encrypt their mail? Come to think of it, I once had an accountant that didn't... - - Scott Grizzard http://www.scottgrizzard.com scott@scottgrizzard.com Ken Elliott wrote: > Pete >> Micro$oft and Internet just do not mix. Never trust them together. > > Pete >> Tell the client, don't use Window$ on the outside Internet. > > You can't tell clients what to do. Photoshop and AutoCAD users can't use > Linux. > > Scott is trying to resolve an issue and seeks data. But your responses are > simply inaccurate dogma that does nothing to help him. > > Scott >> > Window$ is evil and vulnerable beyond compare. > > Oh Scott, not you too? A product is evil? Sorry, a product can't be evil. > A person can. > > Linux, Mac and Windows all have security holes and all can be compromised. > Compaired to BSD, all three are like swiss cheese. Bashing Windows makes > Linux fans look like nuts and hurts the cause. I have run many differnet > operating systems and all can be used safely if properly configured. > Windows is full of problems, but anyone that thinks Linux is a magic bullet > is due for a surprise. All systems need proper configureation and > management if you want to be "internet safe". > > This is a Linux advocacy mail list, not an anti-Microsoft mail list. Those > are quite different things. Can we stick to Pro-Linux activities and stop > the useless bashing? > > Ken Elliott > ===================== > > -----Original Message----- > From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Pete Theisen > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 6:34 AM > To: slug@nks.net > Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that > other OS > > Scott Grizzard wrote: > I agree completely and wholeheartedly about your recommendations - > Window$ is evil and vulnerable beyond compare. /Given/ /that/, can I > send/receive encrypted email in a way that is still scanned by antivirus > on the client's computer? > > In an ideal world, the recipient would be using Linux, and there would > be no need, but, in an ideal world, blah blah blah. > > Iff I use Windows, and if I use gnupg encryption (or S/MIME), would the > anti-malware on the local computer scan the message /before/ it was > read, or is the anti-malware bypassed completely, leaving a giant > security hole no matter what OS I am using? > > I have been looking all over the web for an answer, and I have found > /nothing/ so far. > >> Hi Scott, > >> Now WHAT does THAT tell you? If you find nothing there very well might >> be NOTHING! Tell the client, don't use Window$ on the outside Internet. > >> Everything that ventures outside of the office should be Linux. Unless >> they are rich. Then they can try mac, if they like. > >> That said, you could arrange to have it scanned first by setting up a >> Linux firewall/Internet server that did everything you wanted done to >> all the packets before it let them out to the rest of the office. All >> traffic to or from the outside world through this physical box. > >> http://www.linux.com/archive/articles/113821 > >> That way, the Window$ junkies would never see Linux, yet everything they >> saw would be sanitized. Of course, then the boss couldn't hole up and >> watch p*rn. I think these are called Linux gateway servers or something >> like that. > >>>>> I am being forced to use "that other OS" in a project, and I had a >>>>> question about email malware protection. >>>> Hi Scott, >>>> >>>> If your project for the client does not directly involve email, just set >>>> up firewall, anti malware and turn off all "Windows Services" that your >>>> client is not using. Then set up a Linux box or notebook for your own >>>> email at that site and call it a day. >>>> >>>> Strongly recommend the client also set up a Linux box for all Internet >>>> use, and clearly disclaim any liability if your advice in this regard is >>>> not adhered to. >>>> >>>> If your "other OS" project could work disconnected from the outside >>>> Internet so much the better. >>>> >>>> Micro$oft and Internet just do not mix. Never trust them together. >> - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). 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Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 15 14:08:28 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FI8SbM017164 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:08:28 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5FI8SdK017161 for slug-track29; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:08:28 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FI8SNL017157 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:08:28 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-i.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-i.nks.net [24.73.112.87]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FI8Sir005352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:08:28 -0400 Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.121]) by nks-ma-100-i.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FI4Xtr014867 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:04:33 -0400 Received: from Darth ([68.205.9.122]) by cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090615180432790.KGHQ19023@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:04:32 +0000 From: "Ken Elliott" To: References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> <4A3623A2.80801@verizon.net> <001501c9edd9$e9cc3450$bd649cf0$@rr.com> <4A3686D5.4080909@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <4A3686D5.4080909@verizon.net> Subject: RE: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:05:01 -0400 Message-ID: <001f01c9ede3$cdf9f780$69ede680$@rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acnt4WQfZ8O6j1+/QQC3iSqrcszAPQAAJTmg Content-Language: en-us X-HELO: cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1, required 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_60 1.00) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net >> They can use Photoshop and AutoCad without email on the same machine can't they? Doesn't make sense to me. People who use those products generally need to communicate with others, thus need email. >> I notice that you offer no suggestion even though you supposedly know what to do. If I had the answer, I would have suggested one. >> I think the Linux gateway server is his best bet. As I understand his issue (possible virus contained inside encrypted email), the gateways you suggest have nothing to do with the problem. Assuming the sender of the message is trusted, it would be possible to push an encrypted payload all the way to the other side. His question was (in essence) "does the decryption occur before the anti-virus scan (good) or after (bad). I don't know, and thus didn't comment on that. I was simply suggesting that needless bashing is noise that hurts the cause. Ken Elliott ===================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 15 14:15:05 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FIF5fx018087 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:15:05 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5FIF5Zr018084 for slug-track29; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:15:05 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FIF5ZU018080 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:15:05 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tm.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tm.nks.net [24.73.112.239]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FIF5Jq006959 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:15:05 -0400 Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.121]) by nks-ma-100-tm.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FIDotc031256 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:13:50 -0400 Received: from Darth ([68.205.9.122]) by cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090615181349583.KPQC19023@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:13:49 +0000 From: "Ken Elliott" To: References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> <4A3624B5.2080409@verizon.net> <4A3689B7.30804@scottgrizzard.com> In-Reply-To: <4A3689B7.30804@scottgrizzard.com> Subject: RE: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:14:18 -0400 Message-ID: <003c01c9ede5$19dbd1e0$4d9375a0$@rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acnt4pLq3+acp3u6QciyOYYEkOB/nQAAlcDA Content-Language: en-us X-HELO: cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-4.699, required 6, AWL -4.80, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Scott http://www.pgp.com/partners/technology_alliance/symantec.html This solution uses the AV before encryption for the sender, and after encryption for the receiver. Windows only, natch. Ken Elliott ===================== -----Original Message----- From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Scott Grizzard Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:50 PM To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 These are all about setting up a gateway server - my problem is "what if you are doing end-to-end encryption, where the mail servers /can't/ read the email. I understand the idea of doing encryption on the gateway, but if you are encrypting on the local machines (using pgp for example), how do you do antivirus? - - Scott Grizzard ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 15 14:37:28 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FIbSgB021263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:37:28 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5FIbSYZ021260 for slug-track29; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:37:28 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FIbSKl021256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:37:28 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tm.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tm.nks.net [24.73.112.239]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FIbQlV009435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:37:28 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-33.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-33.bluehost.com [69.89.18.153]) by nks-ma-100-tm.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5FIZwg0000919 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:35:59 -0400 Received: (qmail 23085 invoked by uid 0); 15 Jun 2009 18:35:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2009 18:35:57 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=bFhqi+9xOyofI/Ib3T6HqHcTbDHg6xxSb5bz6WBUt+qT2acOdekSki8UU1OU2z6hRHMUu6JzGxnyeYDUGQ4fqqpLzl6bPtLSa1YPGUI/MCGWVv8uV6UBzxSbAr4RAjt4; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MGH2D-0003bw-4J for slug@nks.net; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:35:57 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5077E190883F for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:36:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A36948B.10409@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:35:55 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> <4A3624B5.2080409@verizon.net> <4A3689B7.30804@scottgrizzard.com> <003c01c9ede5$19dbd1e0$4d9375a0$@rr.com> In-Reply-To: <003c01c9ede5$19dbd1e0$4d9375a0$@rr.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E; url=http://www.scottgrizzard.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/0x2496506E.asc X-Stationery: 0.4.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-33.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.236, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I think that is what I am looking for. It supports both types of encryption, and works on Outlook, Thunderbird (windows), and Apple Mail. It supports S/MIMIE and OpenPGP. I assume that the partnership means that if you use Norton and PGP Desktop Home, you are protected from malware. I will research this. Thanks Ken, Scott Grizzard http://www.scottgrizzard.com/ scott@scottgrizzard.com Ken Elliott wrote: > Scott > > http://www.pgp.com/partners/technology_alliance/symantec.html > > This solution uses the AV before encryption for the sender, and after > encryption for the receiver. Windows only, natch. > > Ken Elliott > ===================== > > > -----Original Message----- > From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Scott Grizzard > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:50 PM > To: slug@nks.net > Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that > other OS > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > These are all about setting up a gateway server - my problem is "what if > you are doing end-to-end encryption, where the mail servers /can't/ read > the email. > > I understand the idea of doing encryption on the gateway, but if you are > encrypting on the local machines (using pgp for example), how do you do > antivirus? > > - - Scott Grizzard > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAko2lIkACgkQARR1QiSWUG6nvQCfW8UV9R/bukKoJWrcGeiix8wn 9/cAn2hPiAJ1PM05+s5R3EguqCsUweIh =tyhJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 15 15:12:28 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FJCSGY026179 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:12:28 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5FJCStF026176 for slug-track29; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:12:28 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FJCR2D026172 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:12:28 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sb.nks.net [24.73.112.205]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FJCQbb017828 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:12:27 -0400 Received: from mail-yx0-f180.google.com (mail-yx0-f180.google.com [209.85.210.180]) by nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FIQaG5032275 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:26:37 -0400 Received: by yxe10 with SMTP id 10so2347089yxe.7 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:26:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:date:from:to:subject :message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=0DY3vG2UGoJSaOJTnxQHV6FUQAENnLzDDmJ1x6/KF20=; b=K8FHAuxYCSXBR4MXR99bwKf6YnCgE1odEuGAdyRqoDJSpbnVHf6i+LXZGAsY7D2KAU 08lPNaC4TW0PU+pMXbx0fAMUIdOY3NUdxfszN3n+FcWxBX5suVjMPnRzjnDFAIayH2ih H21xat2fBMLIC6sYR1bNcZUYSNA3Hjrde9ECo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=nBivybMlP+SMLuO6+7gxqdYX1kKEyCL919iHKPa3rCRxdaRW6u5ENdae/w3FeKhj3g wnEP3+tEx9hPMR/E06RrmaAugz6YC9TJrt16LUrwTYto1MFXV4AU6T90Mb+NoUyCPM2h QH6OCOpsA4d12HwgyOy22lmdLajYi2gzlFD8w= Received: by 10.90.96.1 with SMTP id t1mr706137agb.80.1245090395474; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:26:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shawn-laptop (static-96-254-233-175.tampfl.fios.verizon.net [96.254.233.175]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 3sm5479532aga.45.2009.06.15.11.26.34 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:26:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:26:32 -0400 From: "Shawn J. Goff" To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS Message-ID: <20090615142632.4c59a4b7@shawn-laptop> In-Reply-To: <4A3689B7.30804@scottgrizzard.com> References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> <4A3624B5.2080409@verizon.net> <4A3689B7.30804@scottgrizzard.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.5.0 (GTK+ 2.14.4; i486-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HELO: mail-yx0-f180.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-0.26, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_05 -1.11, BP_searchhttpgoogle 0.75) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:49:43 -0400 Scott Grizzard wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > These are all about setting up a gateway server - my problem is "what > if you are doing end-to-end encryption, where the mail > servers /can't/ read the email. > > I understand the idea of doing encryption on the gateway, but if you > are encrypting on the local machines (using pgp for example), how do > you do antivirus? > > - - Scott Grizzard > http://www.scottgrizzard.com/ > scott@scottgrizzard.com > > Pete Theisen wrote: > > Scott Grizzard wrote: > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >> Hash: SHA1 > >> > >> I agree completely and wholeheartedly about your recommendations - > >> Window$ is evil and vulnerable beyond compare. /Given/ /that/, > >> can I send/receive encrypted email in a way that is still scanned > >> by antivirus on the client's computer? > >> > >> In an ideal world, the recipient would be using Linux, and there > >> would be no need, but, in an ideal world, blah blah blah. > >> > >> Iff I use Windows, and if I use gnupg encryption (or S/MIME), > >> would the anti-malware on the local computer scan the > >> message /before/ it was read, or is the anti-malware bypassed > >> completely, leaving a giant security hole no matter what OS I am > >> using? > >> > >> I have been looking all over the web for an answer, and I have > >> found /nothing/ so far. > > > > Hi WScott! > > > > I sent you a link to the first article, the next ten of the four > > million probably are interesting as well, > > > > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=linux+gateway+server&aq=f&oq=&aqi= > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAko2ibUACgkQARR1QiSWUG4KPgCggv4llqsf2w74IUd9eoV952uw > tbMAnjvj6AwLY1mK0DcxtIkPiNh7Mgb4 > =72xt > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- As for infected files, they must be on disk unencrypted before a program can open it; if the antivirus is watching the filesystem, I would think it would catch it. You can try it out in a VM. As for the vulnerability of the client itself, set it to open messages in text mode. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 15 16:44:43 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FKigxs006719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:44:42 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5FKig2F006716 for slug-track29; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:44:42 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FKigAv006712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:44:42 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tb.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tb.nks.net [24.73.112.228]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FKig8Y030946 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:44:42 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-128.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-128.bluehost.com [67.222.38.28]) by nks-ma-100-tb.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5FKOdIL013660 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:24:40 -0400 Received: (qmail 23920 invoked by uid 0); 15 Jun 2009 20:24:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy4.bluehost.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2009 20:24:38 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=VHFjvrn2uilv03hxC3TCNpZyjUdArWynTt2kBethXRmVLMrkLXFXyNQuvCbyMmSIvT6l/IxWp1IEdjsIeJweVvvAcvUaOd6VIQzwc2DTsVf6TnyFiumima7uEAu/6d/O; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MGIjN-0000ZB-U7 for slug@nks.net; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:24:38 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5EB62190883F for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:25:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A36AE03.4060007@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:24:35 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> <4A3624B5.2080409@verizon.net> <4A3689B7.30804@scottgrizzard.com> <003c01c9ede5$19dbd1e0$4d9375a0$@rr.com> <4A36948B.10409@scottgrizzard.com> In-Reply-To: <4A36948B.10409@scottgrizzard.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E; url=http://www.scottgrizzard.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/0x2496506E.asc X-Stationery: 0.4.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-128.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.236, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 As a follow-up, I know we /don't/ worry about it for Linux, but /iff/ we did, does anyone know off the top of their head how clam-av integration works with Kmail, Evolution, and Thunderbird? I am going to dig into the source code if no one does, but after finding so little knowledge about this on-line, I think it may be a good thing to assemble documentation for and post on the web so everyone can benefit from our frustrations :) - - Scott Grizzard http://www.scottgrizzard.com/ scott@scotgrizzard.com Scott Grizzard wrote: > I think that is what I am looking for. > > It supports both types of encryption, and works on Outlook, Thunderbird > (windows), and Apple Mail. It supports S/MIMIE and OpenPGP. I assume > that the partnership means that if you use Norton and PGP Desktop Home, > you are protected from malware. > > I will research this. Thanks Ken, > > Scott Grizzard > http://www.scottgrizzard.com/ > scott@scottgrizzard.com > > Ken Elliott wrote: >> Scott > >> http://www.pgp.com/partners/technology_alliance/symantec.html > >> This solution uses the AV before encryption for the sender, and after >> encryption for the receiver. Windows only, natch. > >> Ken Elliott >> ===================== > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Scott Grizzard >> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:50 PM >> To: slug@nks.net >> Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that >> other OS > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 > >> These are all about setting up a gateway server - my problem is "what if >> you are doing end-to-end encryption, where the mail servers /can't/ read >> the email. > >> I understand the idea of doing encryption on the gateway, but if you are >> encrypting on the local machines (using pgp for example), how do you do >> antivirus? > >> - - Scott Grizzard > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked >> Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages >> posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the >> official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAko2rgEACgkQARR1QiSWUG6vjgCfedqe4jQT5XcdQqamOAhq1wUN shsAn015Z32Z2gvrqDy5+N3mNoGlvaaM =3lZQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 15 16:59:48 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FKxmXq008799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:59:48 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5FKxmuK008796 for slug-track29; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:59:48 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FKxllb008792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:59:47 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-so.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-so.nks.net [24.73.112.218]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FKxh4P000524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:59:47 -0400 Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.122]) by nks-ma-100-so.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FKrija018172 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:53:44 -0400 Received: from Darth ([68.205.9.122]) by cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090615205343553.YWYX16114@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:53:43 +0000 From: "Ken Elliott" To: References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> <4A3624B5.2080409@verizon.net> <4A3689B7.30804@scottgrizzard.com> <003c01c9ede5$19dbd1e0$4d9375a0$@rr.com> <4A36948B.10409@scottgrizzard.com> <4A36AE03.4060007@scottgrizzard.com> In-Reply-To: <4A36AE03.4060007@scottgrizzard.com> Subject: RE: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:54:12 -0400 Message-ID: <004101c9edfb$7070e1b0$5152a510$@rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acnt+jcrE9ea6vUcSpiPXUvicG7FXQAAPm9A Content-Language: en-us X-HELO: cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.351, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_fortodayonly 0.25) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net >> " I know we /don't/ worry about it for Linux " We should be aware that Linux is far from immune. Assuming it is will lead to the sort of problems the Windows community faces today. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_computer_viruses Ken Elliott ===================== -----Original Message----- From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Scott Grizzard Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:25 PM To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 As a follow-up, I know we /don't/ worry about it for Linux, but /iff/ we did, does anyone know off the top of their head how clam-av integration works with Kmail, Evolution, and Thunderbird? I am going to dig into the source code if no one does, but after finding so little knowledge about this on-line, I think it may be a good thing to assemble documentation for and post on the web so everyone can benefit from our frustrations :) - - Scott Grizzard http://www.scottgrizzard.com/ scott@scotgrizzard.com Scott Grizzard wrote: > I think that is what I am looking for. > > It supports both types of encryption, and works on Outlook, Thunderbird > (windows), and Apple Mail. It supports S/MIMIE and OpenPGP. I assume > that the partnership means that if you use Norton and PGP Desktop Home, > you are protected from malware. > > I will research this. Thanks Ken, > > Scott Grizzard > http://www.scottgrizzard.com/ > scott@scottgrizzard.com > > Ken Elliott wrote: >> Scott > >> http://www.pgp.com/partners/technology_alliance/symantec.html > >> This solution uses the AV before encryption for the sender, and after >> encryption for the receiver. Windows only, natch. > >> Ken Elliott >> ===================== > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Scott Grizzard >> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:50 PM >> To: slug@nks.net >> Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that >> other OS > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 > >> These are all about setting up a gateway server - my problem is "what if >> you are doing end-to-end encryption, where the mail servers /can't/ read >> the email. > >> I understand the idea of doing encryption on the gateway, but if you are >> encrypting on the local machines (using pgp for example), how do you do >> antivirus? > >> - - Scott Grizzard > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked >> Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages >> posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the >> official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAko2rgEACgkQARR1QiSWUG6vjgCfedqe4jQT5XcdQqamOAhq1wUN shsAn015Z32Z2gvrqDy5+N3mNoGlvaaM =3lZQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 15 18:45:07 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FMj7YI023597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:45:07 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5FMj7pf023594 for slug-track29; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:45:07 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FMj6kX023590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:45:06 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-ta.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-ta.nks.net [24.73.112.227]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FMj6dB006831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:45:06 -0400 Received: from vms173007pub.verizon.net (vms173007pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.7]) by nks-ma-100-ta.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5FMi2MY017802 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:44:02 -0400 Received: from arthur.localnet ([71.122.113.201]) by vms173007.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KLA002TUXFX7PJ0@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:36:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Brandt To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:15:57 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.10.3 (Linux/2.6.27.23-0.1-default; KDE/4.1.3; x86_64; ; ) References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> In-reply-to: <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Message-id: <200906151715.57299.vzd1s11k@verizon.net> X-HELO: vms173007pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-7.844, required 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_50 0.00, FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS 2.15, WGL_vzd1s11k_Pat_verizon_Pdo_net -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net > > Iff I use Windows, and if I use gnupg encryption (or S/MIME), would the > anti-malware on the local computer scan the message /before/ it was > read, or is the anti-malware bypassed completely, leaving a giant > security hole no matter what OS I am using? > The logical place to pose that question would be the software company that wrote the encryption software as the anti-virus people would not even think of that. my 2 cents ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 15 20:48:39 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5G0mdXI008467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:48:39 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5G0md2O008464 for slug-track29; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:48:39 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5G0mc3C008460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:48:38 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sb.nks.net [24.73.112.205]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5G0mch5014185 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:48:38 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-17.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-17.bluehost.com [69.89.20.232]) by nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5G0k63D005610 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:46:06 -0400 Received: (qmail 27296 invoked by uid 0); 16 Jun 2009 00:46:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 16 Jun 2009 00:46:05 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=pqagk+Qm2B+i2lgv+LBEgXnexpj2RrMpD3xLtzeg7rLUYhqwmXjv3kFnq9yRhU6jsSBVSSugESieSG9NKbXVWYogso1FRxWbeMuu/nP9KIkHBTCCwm2kfZgfbk4q3TJb; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MGMoP-0001Lr-4r for slug@nks.net; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:46:05 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 174BB190883F for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:46:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A36EB49.80507@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:46:01 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> <200906151715.57299.vzd1s11k@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <200906151715.57299.vzd1s11k@verizon.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E; url=http://www.scottgrizzard.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/0x2496506E.asc X-Stationery: 0.4.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-17.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-0.264, required 6, AWL 1.50, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_00 -2.60, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, J_CHICKENPOX_33 0.60) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 That is a very good point - I will post to the gpg4win and enigmail lists. cheers. - - Scott Grizzard http://www.scottgrizzard.com/ scott@scottgrizzard.com Joe Brandt wrote: >> Iff I use Windows, and if I use gnupg encryption (or S/MIME), would the >> anti-malware on the local computer scan the message /before/ it was >> read, or is the anti-malware bypassed completely, leaving a giant >> security hole no matter what OS I am using? >> > > The logical place to pose that question would be the software company that > wrote the encryption software as the anti-virus people would not even think of > that. > > my 2 cents > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAko260cACgkQARR1QiSWUG6HmQCgljrSNmJEUy1GytXNU2Fgd542 QsIAoIxXihNV6SOLCYBsw66ixx0QhFu3 =opBp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 15 21:57:10 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5G1vAL5018064 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:57:10 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5G1vAoR018061 for slug-track29; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:57:10 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5G1v9Ab018057 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:57:09 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-d.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-d.nks.net [24.73.112.82]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5G1v9AK018143 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:57:09 -0400 Received: from vms173007pub.verizon.net (vms173007pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.7]) by nks-ma-100-d.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5G1to7g017410 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:55:51 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173007.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KLB00DIW4RUO250@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:14:20 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A36F21B.6070707@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:15:07 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> <200906151715.57299.vzd1s11k@verizon.net> <4A36EB49.80507@scottgrizzard.com> In-reply-to: <4A36EB49.80507@scottgrizzard.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173007pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.155, required 6, AWL -2.70, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAD_WORD_interest 0.25, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71, J_CHICKENPOX_33 0.60) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Scott Grizzard wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > That is a very good point - I will post to the gpg4win and enigmail > lists. cheers. Hi Scott, When you figure it out post it back here, since it is of general interest. I am sure some of the techniques would be applicable to Linux users as well. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 15 23:25:23 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5G3PNKY030531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:25:23 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5G3PN0b030528 for slug-track29; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:25:23 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5G3PMhm030524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:25:22 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sc.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sc.nks.net [24.73.112.206]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5G3PMGX024329 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:25:22 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-312.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-312.bluehost.com [67.222.54.5]) by nks-ma-100-sc.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5G3Oc9s013776 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:24:39 -0400 Received: (qmail 14271 invoked by uid 0); 16 Jun 2009 03:24:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy6.bluehost.com with SMTP; 16 Jun 2009 03:24:38 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=F7Hu8A4VQd1s/W4dxkmwlAHx9i+I6FucifXQB+4a3YyAPOXeUz3SYqfYCWI6Sqv7nwm3mcnrbB8nhYeSlH0KY1EyIwsO0VBJBLbTBDbKJlvRUPbBRU2CXvAR0CWpwHEr; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MGPHp-0002o0-NF for slug@nks.net; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:24:38 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0840F190883F for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:25:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A371071.7050601@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:24:33 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> <200906151715.57299.vzd1s11k@verizon.net> <4A36EB49.80507@scottgrizzard.com> <4A36F21B.6070707@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <4A36F21B.6070707@verizon.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E; url=http://www.scottgrizzard.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/0x2496506E.asc X-Stationery: 0.4.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-312.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.245, required 6, BAD_WORD_interest 0.25, BAYES_20 -0.74, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, J_CHICKENPOX_33 0.60, UPPERCASE_25_50 0.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 /If/ I figure it out. My concern isn't just for Windows, but for Linux users too (since I bet most of us run a Wine of some sort on our machines). - - Scott (ps: took off the sig - just noticed I was plugging my website on every post :) ) Pete Theisen wrote: > Scott Grizzard wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> That is a very good point - I will post to the gpg4win and enigmail >> lists. cheers. > > Hi Scott, > > When you figure it out post it back here, since it is of general > interest. I am sure some of the techniques would be applicable to Linux > users as well. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAko3EGwACgkQARR1QiSWUG6jPACfQLBBMV+E73yreSKDUey9Jp6g wsUAnicStv8U/VamaTUVfRdHKZh7P6qM =mWqH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 16 01:50:29 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5G5oT88018433 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 01:50:29 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5G5oTKm018430 for slug-track29; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 01:50:29 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5G5oTNA018426 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 01:50:29 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sc.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sc.nks.net [24.73.112.206]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5G5oSlq004274 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 01:50:29 -0400 Received: from vms173009pub.verizon.net (vms173009pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.9]) by nks-ma-100-sc.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5G5njVg025210 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 01:49:45 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173009.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KLB002WBFVH4NT0@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 00:14:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A372A50.2070606@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 01:14:56 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> <200906151715.57299.vzd1s11k@verizon.net> <4A36EB49.80507@scottgrizzard.com> <4A36F21B.6070707@verizon.net> <4A371071.7050601@scottgrizzard.com> In-reply-to: <4A371071.7050601@scottgrizzard.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173009pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-0.004, required 6, AWL -4.32, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAD_WORD_interest 0.25, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71, FB_4WORD_DOLLARe 0.85, FB_WORD_01DOLLAR1 0.60, J_CHICKENPOX_33 0.60) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Scott Grizzard wrote: > (ps: took off the sig - just noticed I was plugging my website on every > post :) ) Hi Scott! Hey! It is OK to put your website in your signature, they say so every month. "6) Commercial offerings. Allowed on a very restricted basis, as follows: a) You may advertise your goods and services in your tagline or signature." I am not on gpg$win or enigmail, so copy me on the article you write if you will. Just CAN'T join any more lists! >>> That is a very good point - I will post to the gpg4win and enigmail >>> lists. cheers. >> When you figure it out post it back here, since it is of general >> interest. I am sure some of the techniques would be applicable to Linux >> users as well. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 16 10:29:30 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5GETU3A026668 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:29:30 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5GETUHw026665 for slug-track29; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:29:30 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5GETTK0026661 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:29:29 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sa.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sa.nks.net [24.73.112.204]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5GETT1u002876 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:29:29 -0400 Received: from vms173003pub.verizon.net (vms173003pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.3]) by nks-ma-100-sa.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5GESD0K010026 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:28:13 -0400 Received: from arthur.localnet ([71.122.113.201]) by vms173003.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KLA00J5QV6J8030@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:47:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Brandt To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:15:57 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.10.3 (Linux/2.6.27.23-0.1-default; KDE/4.1.3; x86_64; ; ) References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> In-reply-to: <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Message-id: <200906151715.57299.vzd1s11k@verizon.net> X-HELO: vms173003pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-6.89, required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL -0.95, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71, FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS 2.15, WGL_vzd1s11k_Pat_verizon_Pdo_net -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net > > Iff I use Windows, and if I use gnupg encryption (or S/MIME), would the > anti-malware on the local computer scan the message /before/ it was > read, or is the anti-malware bypassed completely, leaving a giant > security hole no matter what OS I am using? > The logical place to pose that question would be the software company that wrote the encryption software as the anti-virus people would not even think of that. my 2 cents ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 16 17:56:53 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5GLuqWe024552 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:56:52 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5GLuqgD024549 for slug-track29; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:56:52 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5GLuqsS024545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:56:52 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-ti.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-ti.nks.net [24.73.112.235]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5GLup3o012822 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:56:52 -0400 Received: from vms173017pub.verizon.net (vms173017pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.17]) by nks-ma-100-ti.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5GLh6XN014155 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:43:06 -0400 Received: from arthur.localnet ([71.122.113.201]) by vms173017.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KLA00KVGTQLOX20@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:15:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Brandt To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:15:57 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.10.3 (Linux/2.6.27.23-0.1-default; KDE/4.1.3; x86_64; ; ) References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> In-reply-to: <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Message-id: <200906151715.57299.vzd1s11k@verizon.net> X-HELO: vms173017pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-6.964, required 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_50 0.00, DATE_IN_PAST_24_48 0.88, FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS 2.15, WGL_vzd1s11k_Pat_verizon_Pdo_net -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net > > Iff I use Windows, and if I use gnupg encryption (or S/MIME), would the > anti-malware on the local computer scan the message /before/ it was > read, or is the anti-malware bypassed completely, leaving a giant > security hole no matter what OS I am using? > The logical place to pose that question would be the software company that wrote the encryption software as the anti-virus people would not even think of that. my 2 cents ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 16 18:24:47 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5GMOlrd028597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:24:47 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5GMOl0Z028594 for slug-track29; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:24:47 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5GMOlK4028590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:24:47 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tg.nks.net [24.73.112.233]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5GMOkvm016424 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:24:47 -0400 Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.120]) by nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5GLxDgt032209 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:59:14 -0400 Received: from Darth ([68.205.9.122]) by cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090616215913260.GAAW19023@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:59:13 +0000 From: "Ken Elliott" To: References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> <200906151715.57299.vzd1s11k@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <200906151715.57299.vzd1s11k@verizon.net> Subject: RE: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:59:43 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c9eecd$c1b17a30$45146e90$@rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcnuzYHKLjLksd72TXCxznTTSWwBRwAACzYQ Content-Language: en-us X-HELO: cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.514, required 6, AWL -1.69, BAYES_50 0.00, NO_DNS_FOR_FROM 3.20) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net This is the third time I've received the message from Joe. Are others seeing this? Ken Elliott ===================== -----Original Message----- From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Joe Brandt Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 5:16 PM To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS > > Iff I use Windows, and if I use gnupg encryption (or S/MIME), would the > anti-malware on the local computer scan the message /before/ it was > read, or is the anti-malware bypassed completely, leaving a giant > security hole no matter what OS I am using? > The logical place to pose that question would be the software company that wrote the encryption software as the anti-virus people would not even think of that. my 2 cents ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 16 19:35:58 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5GNZvRg006147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:35:58 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5GNZvjm006144 for slug-track29; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:35:57 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5GNZu47006140 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:35:57 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sd.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sd.nks.net [24.73.112.207]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5GNZt8M026564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:35:56 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-09.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-09.bluehost.com [69.89.17.209]) by nks-ma-100-sd.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5GN38PE022632 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:03:09 -0400 Received: (qmail 31631 invoked by uid 0); 16 Jun 2009 23:03:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 16 Jun 2009 23:03:08 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=EEX9aqb14/6lOStXLkhXZLFWHCuxpgjszUFBh5ha7v26iibL21GJxBertiBd/qTt/OmDXXNW6gCFEPhWwmGJwAxdVthY4lmu3Fyr9FlDe2lIwIRA6+DYMJpZBUb32747; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MGhgJ-0007gk-Nl for slug@nks.net; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:03:07 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BEB96190883F for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A3824A2.7080905@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:02:58 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> <200906151715.57299.vzd1s11k@verizon.net> <000001c9eecd$c1b17a30$45146e90$@rr.com> In-Reply-To: <000001c9eecd$c1b17a30$45146e90$@rr.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E; url=http://www.scottgrizzard.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/0x2496506E.asc X-Stationery: 0.4.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-09.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-0.004, required 6, AWL 0.63, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_ve 1.65, BAYES_00 -2.60, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, TW_UQ 0.08) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Yes. Look at the headers though - If you diff the different messages, you get the same /original/ mail ID. I don't think it is the mailing list's server - it seems to be relaying separate messages it receives. It could be verizon, but I think his email client is going bonkers. Ken Elliott wrote: > This is the third time I've received the message from Joe. Are others > seeing this? > > > Ken Elliott _diff_ 5,6c5,6 < X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham < version=3.2.5 - --- > X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, > DATE_IN_PAST_24_48 autolearn=no version=3.2.5 10,11c10,11 < by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70487190883F < for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:35:05 -0400 (EDT) - --- > by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5F4E190883F > for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:05:04 -0400 (EDT) 13c13 < Delivery-date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:33:22 -0600 - --- > Delivery-date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:00:16 -0600 16c16 < for (single-drop); Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:35:05 - -0400 (EDT) - --- > for (single-drop); Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:05:04 - -0400 (EDT) 19,20c19,20 < id 1MGZiz-0007E7-FW < for scott@scottgrizzard.com; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:33:22 -0600 - --- > id 1MGghO-0002nX-Cr > for scott@scottgrizzard.com; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:00:16 -0600 25,26c25,26 < id 1MGZiz-0007DV-49 < for scott@scottgrizzard.com; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:33:21 -0600 - --- > id 1MGghO-0002lw-0r > for scott@scottgrizzard.com; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:00:10 -0600 28c28 < by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5GETU3A026668 - --- > by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5GLuqWe024552 30c30 < for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:29:30 -0400 - --- > for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:56:52 -0400 32,33c32,33 < by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5GETUHw026665 < for slug-track29; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:29:30 -0400 - --- > by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5GLuqgD024549 > for slug-track29; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:56:52 -0400 35c35 < by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5GETTK0026661 - --- > by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5GLuqsS024545 37,39c37,39 < for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:29:29 -0400 < Received: from nks-ma-100-sa.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sa.nks.net [24.73.112.204]) < by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5GETT1u002876 - --- > for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:56:52 -0400 > Received: from nks-ma-100-ti.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-ti.nks.net [24.73.112.235]) > by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5GLup3o012822 41,45c41,45 < for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:29:29 -0400 < Received: from vms173003pub.verizon.net (vms173003pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.3]) < by nks-ma-100-sa.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5GESD0K010026 < for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:28:13 -0400 < Received: from arthur.localnet ([71.122.113.201]) by vms173003.mailsrvcs.net - --- > for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:56:52 -0400 > Received: from vms173017pub.verizon.net (vms173017pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.17]) > by nks-ma-100-ti.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5GLh6XN014155 > for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:43:06 -0400 > Received: from arthur.localnet ([71.122.113.201]) by vms173017.mailsrvcs.net 47,48c47,48 < with ESMTPA id <0KLA00J5QV6J8030@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; < Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:47:07 -0500 (CDT) - --- > with ESMTPA id <0KLA00KVGTQLOX20@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; > Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:15:57 -0500 (CDT) 63c63 < X-HELO: vms173003pub.verizon.net - --- > X-HELO: vms173017pub.verizon.net 66,69c66,69 < X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-6.89, < required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL -0.95, BAYES_50 0.00, < DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71, < FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS 2.15, WGL_vzd1s11k_Pat_verizon_Pdo_net -10.00) - --- > X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-6.964, > required 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_50 0.00, > DATE_IN_PAST_24_48 0.88, FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS 2.15, > WGL_vzd1s11k_Pat_verizon_Pdo_net -10.00) 75c75 < X-Virus-Checker-Version: clamassassin 1.2.4 with clamdscan / ClamAV 0.95.1/9470/Tue Jun 16 05:07:17 2009 - --- > X-Virus-Checker-Version: clamassassin 1.2.4 with clamdscan / ClamAV 0.95.1/9472/Tue Jun 16 13:24:06 2009 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAko4JKEACgkQARR1QiSWUG6XfwCeOKssvvZi8ovogIjvmHPY0pGm 3twAnRa1OMunW61wz0WX7ZSfiUFwBHlB =/OS3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 16 20:06:22 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5H06M6B010420 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:06:22 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5H06Mxd010417 for slug-track29; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:06:22 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5H06Mvv010413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:06:22 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tg.nks.net [24.73.112.233]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5H06Lfo031973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:06:22 -0400 Received: from vms173001pub.verizon.net (vms173001pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.1]) by nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5GNJUS6011351 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:19:30 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173001.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KLC00KP9U4C4XJ3@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:19:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A3828B2.7040503@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:20:18 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> <200906151715.57299.vzd1s11k@verizon.net> <000001c9eecd$c1b17a30$45146e90$@rr.com> In-reply-to: <000001c9eecd$c1b17a30$45146e90$@rr.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173001pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-0.21, required 6, AWL -2.22, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Ken Elliott wrote: > This is the third time I've received the message from Joe. Are others > seeing this? Hi Ken! It is important, important, important . . . > The logical place to pose that question would be the software company that > wrote the encryption software as the anti-virus people would not even think > of > that. > > my 2 cents -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 16 20:45:56 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5H0jujV015952 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:45:56 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5H0ju2w015949 for slug-track29; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:45:56 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5H0jufk015945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:45:56 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-ti.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-ti.nks.net [24.73.112.235]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5H0jttP005844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:45:56 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-27.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-27.bluehost.com [69.89.17.193]) by nks-ma-100-ti.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5GMbx5X019682 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:37:59 -0400 Received: (qmail 25470 invoked by uid 0); 16 Jun 2009 22:37:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; 16 Jun 2009 22:37:58 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=KUkZDhH5E8u7aWltqVs2ENOHFG7PS4Siep9mson690RKlYFhEkexY7/SnqQ+cHEjnM7t9Cd1vT8hOp4RxnDiaHxlqCG8LEA/DB1SDXQCaScFX+IJibexaOfz7P0mE8o1; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MGhHy-0005Js-Jf for slug@nks.net; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:37:58 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6C012190883F for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:38:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A381EC2.1090909@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:37:54 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - Research Update References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <4A35C2F6.9030407@verizon.net> <4A35C75B.1010708@scottgrizzard.com> <200906151715.57299.vzd1s11k@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <200906151715.57299.vzd1s11k@verizon.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E; url=http://www.scottgrizzard.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/0x2496506E.asc X-Stationery: 0.4.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-27.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.035, required 6, AWL -0.25, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_Downloaditnow 0.65, BP_Shewillalwayswantitnow 0.50, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I spoke to a nice lady from PGP today, and she said that if you have desktop email encryption through their products, the decryption is done /after/ the email goes through the virus scanner, making the email scanner worthless. The partnership /apparently/ deals with their "endpoint" products, which aren't really the endpoint now are they? The tech guy she elevated the question to said that most "active" virus scanners (not Clamwin - not active) would scan attachments when you opened them, so there was no problem. I pointed out that macros embedded /in/ the body of the email (Outlook users) would also not be scanned... I don't want to say I could /hear/ the shrug through the phone, but... I know none of /us/ would /ever/ enable macros in Outlook, if we ever used Outlook to begin with, but that isn't always true with our clients who may not know better and may be "resistant" to switching to Thunderbird. The system I haven't played with is enigmail/clamwin on Thunderbird. I I know clamwin is not an active malware scanner, but there is a Thunderbird extension for it, and I don't know when it scans email. Is this just a "not thought through" problem? By the way, PGP's $99 Desktop home product looked pretty slick (easy for non-technical people). It supports gnupg keys and S/MIME along with their proprietary model - the user just selects the one they want to use. It also allows you to encrypt /attachments/ alone with a password that you tell the end-user over the phone, which I thought was a good idea (even though an encrypted zip will get you there too). It's not open source, but you can download the source code for "peer review" for free (that is a really /good/ idea... note note). PGP supports Outlook /and/ Thunderbird. If you have "unenlightened" clients/friends of the small office Accountant/Lawyer type, you might mention it to them... Their next up product is "Desktop Email", and it includes a year of support for $164. There, I plugged her product, so I feel less guilty about taking twenty minutes of her life. :) - - Scott -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAko4HsAACgkQARR1QiSWUG4uRgCePuPEER4Z9BNyzMD14CRVoUVu KnIAn1gLZj/J4In3fSzJrymfGmvvNWRo =Mig4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 17 18:46:54 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5HMksY7007115 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:46:54 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5HMks2n007112 for slug-track29; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:46:54 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5HMkrL6007108 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:46:53 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sb.nks.net [24.73.112.205]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5HMkr76018943 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:46:53 -0400 Received: from vms173005pub.verizon.net (vms173005pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.5]) by nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5HLQj4o006868 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:26:45 -0400 Received: from arthur.localnet ([71.122.113.201]) by vms173005.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KLE002B7GZCS4B1@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:30:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Brandt To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that other OS Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:30:48 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.10.3 (Linux/2.6.27.23-0.1-default; KDE/4.1.3; x86_64; ; ) References: <4A358565.9080405@scottgrizzard.com> <200906151715.57299.vzd1s11k@verizon.net> <000001c9eecd$c1b17a30$45146e90$@rr.com> In-reply-to: <000001c9eecd$c1b17a30$45146e90$@rr.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Message-id: <200906171630.49045.vzd1s11k@verizon.net> X-HELO: vms173005pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-6.122, required 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_40 -0.18, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71, FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS 2.15, WGL_vzd1s11k_Pat_verizon_Pdo_net -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net I only wrote it and sent it once, I promise On Tuesday 16 June 2009 05:59:43 pm Ken Elliott wrote: > This is the third time I've received the message from Joe. Are others > seeing this? > > > Ken Elliott > ===================== > > -----Original Message----- > From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Joe Brandt > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 5:16 PM > To: slug@nks.net > Subject: Re: [SLUG] Antivirus and Email Encryption - both Linux and... that > other OS > > > Iff I use Windows, and if I use gnupg encryption (or S/MIME), would the > > anti-malware on the local computer scan the message /before/ it was > > read, or is the anti-malware bypassed completely, leaving a giant > > security hole no matter what OS I am using? > > The logical place to pose that question would be the software company that > wrote the encryption software as the anti-virus people would not even think > of > that. > > my 2 cents > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 17 19:06:50 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5HN6otB009958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:06:50 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5HN6oWh009955 for slug-track29; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:06:50 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5HN6nQD009951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:06:49 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sd.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sd.nks.net [24.73.112.207]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5HN6lI8020552 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:06:48 -0400 Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by nks-ma-100-sd.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5HMrVlq019393 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:53:31 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=pCYIyWXzN0x+VHHJiq8WOh9v2iAKqXEfC7wMQK4DYnOuZV3vObf9krR1YpSnDJoT; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.86.224.38] (helo=elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MH40Z-0000TC-8A for slug@nks.net; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:53:31 -0400 Received: from 208.118.32.15 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:53:30 -0400 Message-ID: <10940524.1245279211058.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:53:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "Pamela J. Ashworth (webmail)" To: slug at nks net Subject: [SLUG] addendum Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 042ecc44bb627007a99c02d1653ca5e740683398e744b8a4839f62c551be974213c3720e8063c9db350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.38 X-HELO: elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-2.466, required 6, AWL -2.77, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net it's been so long since I've played Linux, that, when my password was not working, I had to call my brother to ask how to change the password. (couldn't remember the command) so, use little words... and yes, he did promise to look at it to see if it's been "cracked" as soon as he is near a computer again. -- Pam from Boston Support Fun TV - Save Chuck! http://chucktv.net/ Scott Bakula News www.bakulanews.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 17 19:11:32 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5HNBWkd010615 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:11:32 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5HNBW1t010612 for slug-track29; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:11:32 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5HNBVfb010608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:11:31 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-so.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-so.nks.net [24.73.112.218]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5HNBT3s020910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:11:31 -0400 Received: from elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by nks-ma-100-so.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5HMnhrS029506 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:49:43 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=VbN80m7KT9clwuzI+jrTux4AHRyFC5oR7vS02AC0Tq9Q7lmAIEOuE3idbgHhxlP7; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.86.224.38] (helo=elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MH3wt-0004LW-CO for slug@nks.net; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:49:43 -0400 Received: from 208.118.32.15 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:49:42 -0400 Message-ID: <4990638.1245278983049.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:49:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "Pamela J. Ashworth (webmail)" To: slug at nks net Subject: [SLUG] I can't get out of KDE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 042ecc44bb627007a99c02d1653ca5e740683398e744b8a4d8aff88d1c23805cd17f25d017a15962387f7b89c61deb1d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.38 X-HELO: elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=2.859, required 6, AWL 2.06, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_justaclickaway 0.50, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: ss X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net well, actually, around 6 my Suse 10.2 machine hit a load average of 26.something I rebooted, which went okay (after all, i couldn't kill the DVR recordings that weren't recording anyway) but when it came back up, there was something on my desktop I don't want on boot. providing that someone didn't stick deluge into some "startup group" I don't know about, can I get it to not start with KDE. I thought perhaps, killing KDE cleanly while the program was not running might work, but I can't figure out how to log off KDE. Cleanly. (I mean, not using Control Alt Backspace) There is a logoff option in the Leave Menu, but when i click it, it says i will log out in 30 seconds - and then 30 seconds later... the dialog box goes away unfortunately, KDE does not. (both when I confirm i want to log out, and when i just let it sit there for 30 seconds) I'm told there is not a command to cleanly shutdown KDE from a Konsole window... anyone have anything else? I just want to not reboot, not rip KDE out from under me as if it were an emergency, but just close KDE and then log back on to it as the same user. -- Pam from Boston Support Fun TV - Save Chuck! http://chucktv.net/ Scott Bakula News www.bakulanews.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 17 19:55:43 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5HNthCP016789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:55:43 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5HNthkZ016786 for slug-track29; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:55:43 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5HNthSD016782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:55:43 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-a.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-a.nks.net [24.73.112.79]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5HNthLv024417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:55:43 -0400 Received: from mail-yx0-f180.google.com (mail-yx0-f180.google.com [209.85.210.180]) by nks-ma-100-a.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5HNsYas031198 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:54:34 -0400 Received: by yxe10 with SMTP id 10so1466079yxe.7 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:54:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:date:from:to:subject :message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4a7d3BdfJumWY6BS3GqhiTuhvHhzTE8PjhAngQKo200=; b=WRVeBHGFhJjlxtcQ+rJuK+L2Q3+v9x2zk/8g02xFMVGQYHz2Zc+zky7XjkpnvcCPk3 Xm32AN/vvhofvPSfTTvZaENQEMM/nu4vO/Em/DdouyYKAZlIBjqt9jw4tBuNO0mHthD4 Hv7R6Oe34Dn9JTLB9EEGh/Fh5gZ3n1AnfJdDk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Zm/f6e6n26o9gZ0om7aGqcfHuyv+xoCrGV3ztFhVvwMv7sU0fuQ9qvSOizhjJfokzn 9vegQnndSFXhXSLw/TwJOzHDj6Q9EURU/r85U8WfqbPp/KXMjA7EZqlbXY+FY/pTQVyM XY3QwvIGUXjiEdYGjtTbq2By19zDoSnxUXJl4= Received: by 10.90.55.20 with SMTP id d20mr549309aga.89.1245282873427; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:54:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shawn-laptop (static-96-254-233-175.tampfl.fios.verizon.net [96.254.233.175]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 21sm781413agd.51.2009.06.17.16.54.32 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:54:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:54:30 -0400 From: "Shawn J. Goff" To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] addendum Message-ID: <20090617195430.4f589168@shawn-laptop> In-Reply-To: <10940524.1245279211058.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <10940524.1245279211058.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.5.0 (GTK+ 2.14.4; i486-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HELO: mail-yx0-f180.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.598, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_40 -0.18, HOST_EQ_STATICB 1.37, HOST_MISMATCH_NET 0.31) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:53:30 -0400 (EDT) "Pamela J. Ashworth (webmail)" wrote: > it's been so long since I've played Linux, that, when my password was > not working, I had to call my brother to ask how to change the > password. (couldn't remember the command) so, use little words... > > and yes, he did promise to look at it to see if it's been "cracked" > as soon as he is near a computer again. > > > -- > Pam from Boston > Support Fun TV - Save Chuck! > http://chucktv.net/ > Scott Bakula News www.bakulanews.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. I'm not quite understanding the problem. Is it that something is using up your cpu but you don't know what? If so, you can run !h in a console to find out what is currently taking up cpu cycles. Maybe that will help find a culprit. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 17 22:18:15 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5I2IFwK004501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:18:15 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5I2IFUc004493 for slug-track29; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:18:15 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5I2IEcg004483 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:18:14 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sb.nks.net [24.73.112.205]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5I2IDZX004214 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:18:14 -0400 Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5I2G07H007357 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:16:00 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=jXs8DSMPAuCw9xBJXu/0qm7fbKDwI4WOPlfdnQpOtQJgt3Oo68MoXTIa2mNgGqrF; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.86.224.38] (helo=elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MH7AV-0005KO-8Y for slug@nks.net; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:15:59 -0400 Received: from 208.118.32.15 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:15:58 -0400 Message-ID: <10799179.1245291359192.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:15:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "Pamela J. Ashworth (webmail)" To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] addendum Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 042ecc44bb627007a99c02d1653ca5e740683398e744b8a4ef91c6d348b0a004ee83c1cf9115b4d2a7ce0e8f8d31aa3f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.38 X-HELO: elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.765, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAD_STRING_gmail_PUNCdot_com 0.65, BAYES_40 -0.18, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----Original Message----- >From: "Shawn J. Goff" >I'm not quite understanding the problem. Is it that something is using >up your cpu but you don't know what? it's possibly you only saw part 2. something *was* running up my system. my brother investigated. it was someone from an IP in Romania running a "scanner"? but actually my question was, how in the heck do I shut down KDE without shutting down the whole machine. "Log out" isn't logging me out. And I don't want to control, alt, backspace. -- Pam from Boston Support Fun TV - Save Chuck! http://chucktv.net/ Scott Bakula News www.bakulanews.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 18 00:52:58 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5I4qwQV026180 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 00:52:58 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5I4qw4X026177 for slug-track29; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 00:52:58 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5I4qv8j026173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 00:52:57 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sa.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sa.nks.net [24.73.112.204]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5I4quvp018841 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 00:52:57 -0400 Received: from mail-gx0-f214.google.com (mail-gx0-f214.google.com [209.85.217.214]) by nks-ma-100-sa.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5I4oTSH023802 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 00:50:30 -0400 Received: by gxk10 with SMTP id 10so1346463gxk.13 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:50:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-enigmail-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=BmJRf8mQo6UaxFWVq8gIT1Wl3faXYAUIzIa3GZW12ZI=; b=V2kq2js9fXff7ZyZjlAkXs/CEEfUkhWl8//yj0iGu8lWbYM47886pzRg6gUSWTcgY4 J+/yUJwZ5Q2Dv2tGnn7KWU01JDDVIPEo4W81RSaoK8qsya0Qmrl377As8FHcxgXMsaT/ OvFrMPheEX4Tp7h/sqhvalMdqz8fN4lSvvGDE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=SVBQGDRRBAmtKwbaPjbaz0pq6hLf7TzwicwJm8ysTOKUbsBAv3Z5PghUnLoztY2fhs bbIdwQOH8jiDr8UQH4+vQNUc8Cdgn3z0uGcMeFiDVqsLDB/Qbkpo8oQsz+8teHycMjuD vbkbKz+k8rSdp3V7trK28bwNNMZw+XHkDtdzU= Received: by 10.151.138.11 with SMTP id q11mr2699066ybn.128.1245300629109; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:50:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.2.200? (215-137.35-65.tampabay.res.rr.com [65.35.137.215]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 9sm1017816ywf.32.2009.06.17.21.50.27 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:50:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4A39C7CA.1080704@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 00:51:22 -0400 From: Paul Bransford User-Agent: Mozilla-Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] I can't get out of KDE References: <4990638.1245278983049.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <4990638.1245278983049.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HELO: mail-gx0-f214.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-1.627, required 6, AWL -1.49, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_20 -0.74, BP_justaclickaway 0.50) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Pamela J. Ashworth (webmail) wrote: > well, actually, around 6 my Suse 10.2 machine hit a load average of 26.something > I rebooted, which went okay (after all, i couldn't kill the DVR recordings that weren't recording anyway) > but when it came back up, there was something on my desktop I don't want on boot. > > providing that someone didn't stick deluge into some "startup group" I don't know about, can I get it to not start with KDE. > I thought perhaps, killing KDE cleanly while the program was not running might work, but I can't figure out how to log off KDE. > Cleanly. (I mean, not using Control Alt Backspace) > > There is a logoff option in the Leave Menu, but when i click it, it says i will log out in 30 seconds - and then 30 seconds later... > the dialog box goes away > unfortunately, KDE does not. (both when I confirm i want to log out, and when i just let it sit there for 30 seconds) > > I'm told there is not a command to cleanly shutdown KDE from a Konsole window... > > anyone have anything else? > > I just want to > not reboot, > not rip KDE out from under me as if it were an emergency, but just close KDE and then log back on to it as the same user. > > > -- > Pam from Boston > Support Fun TV - Save Chuck! > http://chucktv.net/ > Scott Bakula News www.bakulanews.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. Log in through the console, remove executable permissions from the offending program, and try again. Commands of use: which COMMAND - find the abolute path of the program COMMAND chmod -x /path/to/COMMAND - remove executable permissions. you may need to be root, or add "sudo" to the front After you are able to enter and exit KDE cleanly, try adding the executable permissions back with +x (instead of -x) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 18 12:58:46 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5IGwkep031101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 12:58:46 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5IGwkfm031098 for slug-track29; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 12:58:46 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5IGwkoh031094 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 12:58:46 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-a.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-a.nks.net [24.73.112.79]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5IGwjbX001660 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 12:58:46 -0400 Received: from randymail-a2.g.dreamhost.com (caiajhbdcaib.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.81]) by nks-ma-100-a.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5IGcCxh025127 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 12:38:12 -0400 Received: from ws33.ss.szmidt.org (rrcs-24-73-199-62.se.biz.rr.com [24.73.199.62]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by randymail-a2.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EBE4EE2F1 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:38:11 -0700 (PDT) From: steve szmidt To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] I can't get out of KDE Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 12:38:09 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <4990638.1245278983049.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <4990638.1245278983049.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200906181238.09896.steve@szmidt.org> X-HELO: randymail-a2.g.dreamhost.com X-Mismatched-Host: True X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-8.253, required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL -0.06, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_justaclickaway 0.50, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG 0.61, HOST_MISMATCH_COM 0.31, NKS_MISMATCHED_HOST 0.25, WGL_steve_Pat_szmidt_Pdo_org -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net On Wednesday 17 June 2009, Pamela J. Ashworth (webmail) wrote: > There is a logoff option in the Leave Menu, but when i click it, it says i > will log out in 30 seconds - and then 30 seconds later... the dialog box > goes away > unfortunately, KDE does not. (both when I confirm i want to log out, and > when i just let it sit there for 30 seconds) On the little window that pops up, where it says 30 seconds, is an icon, which will reboot immediately if you click on it. Alternatively you can simply press Enter and have it reboot immediately. -- Steve Szmidt "They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 18 13:25:52 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5IHPqO8002541 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:25:52 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5IHPqlP002538 for slug-track29; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:25:52 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5IHPppU002534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:25:51 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sp.nks.net [24.73.112.219]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5IHPojS004196 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:25:51 -0400 Received: from randymail-a2.g.dreamhost.com (caiajhbdcahe.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.74]) by nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5IH4eud020978 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:04:41 -0400 Received: from ws33.ss.szmidt.org (rrcs-24-73-199-62.se.biz.rr.com [24.73.199.62]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by randymail-a2.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 172C7EE2EE for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:04:40 -0700 (PDT) From: steve szmidt To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] addendum Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:04:37 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <10799179.1245291359192.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <10799179.1245291359192.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200906181304.37906.steve@szmidt.org> X-HELO: randymail-a2.g.dreamhost.com X-Mismatched-Host: True X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-9.052, required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL -0.44, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAD_STRING_gmail_PUNCdot_com 0.65, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_mynameis 0.25, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, NKS_MISMATCHED_HOST 0.25, WGL_steve_Pat_szmidt_Pdo_org -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net On Wednesday 17 June 2009, Pamela J. Ashworth (webmail) wrote: > -----Original Message----- > > >From: "Shawn J. Goff" > > > >I'm not quite understanding the problem. Is it that something is using > >up your cpu but you don't know what? > > it's possibly you only saw part 2. > something *was* running up my system. my brother investigated. it was > someone from an IP in Romania running a "scanner"? > > but actually my question was, how in the heck do I shut down KDE without > shutting down the whole machine. "Log out" isn't logging me out. > And I don't want to control, alt, backspace. Well, with your visitor from Romania, it looks like you pretty much just need to backup your data (documents etc that you have created) and do a fresh install. Which would include the vital step of reformatting your drive. If someone is running something on your computer, then you don't know what else they may have done. There is a good likelyhood that there now is a nice backdoor for them to get in through whenever they feel like it. On the otherhand if someone was simply remotely scanning your computer to see what open connections there might be on your computer, then it does not mean they gained access to your computer. The odd thing here (with the limited information you've given) is that you said you were running at a very high CPU load, apparently at the same time as the Romanian was there. If that is the case then it definitely sounds like a "break-in". People break in to computers for many different reasons. Some is to use your computer as part of a much larger nefarious scheme against someone else. Leaving you and your fellow victims to answer authorities. Some do it for fun, others install programs that will record all your keystrokes, recording how you for example login to your bank account, etc. Organized crime moved online years ago and are behind a lot of the online crimes these days. The thing is that your only realistic way out of being part of their "team" is to do a fresh install. The only thing to do now is to attempt to establish if they left signs of being there or if by now they have cleaned out all log entries. Stopping you from logging out could be an intentional thing done to stop the application(s) they left there from being killed, or simply a by product where they wanted enough time to do their thing. If possible it would be good to find out what services you have running on your computer. In otherwords there has to be some program running which accepts a remote connection or they can't break in without gaining physical access to the computer. One of the commonly running services is a program written to allow secure remote connections. It is called Secure Shell. It runs under the name sshd. It is very secure provided your logins are using secure passwords. A lot of people think that they don't have anything anybody would want, but even if that was true - how would they know without breaking in first? The other thing is that all people with an internet connection can become part of a large unknowing and unwilling group of people who's computers are used to attack others. So even if you don't have anything of value in your computer, your connection is of value to online criminals. Find someone with the time and knowhow to walk through your computer and verify passwords and check logs to see what it looks like. At this point I would say the odds are heavily against you if indeed your computer load was at 26 and you had a visitor from Romania at the same time. -- Steve Szmidt "They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 18 13:41:50 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5IHfoJL004777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:41:50 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5IHfoLF004774 for slug-track29; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:41:50 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5IHfnxe004770 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:41:49 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tg.nks.net [24.73.112.233]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5IHfmCX005428 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:41:49 -0400 Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5IHeN9a026164 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:40:24 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=aALpgPj2NGgaCBHCKpUixJtjWi4Er8YDbnstUxHHgZbvhyS9uR9WNyp3jmlGB/8E; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.86.224.42] (helo=elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MHLb5-0000d9-6Q for slug@nks.net; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:40:23 -0400 Received: from 97.78.248.237 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:40:22 -0400 Message-ID: <17789123.1245346823171.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:40:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Pamela J. Ashworth (webmail)" To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] I can't get out of KDE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 042ecc44bb627007a99c02d1653ca5e740683398e744b8a4a03a586fd31d9b90fd5000d305b1e904350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.42 X-HELO: elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=4.001, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_justaclickaway 0.50, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, NO_DNS_FOR_FROM 3.20) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: ssss X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----Original Message----- >From: steve szmidt > >On Wednesday 17 June 2009, Pamela J. Ashworth (webmail) wrote: > >> There is a logoff option in the Leave Menu, but when i click it, it says i >> will log out in 30 seconds - and then 30 seconds later... the dialog box >> goes away >> unfortunately, KDE does not. (both when I confirm i want to log out, and >> when i just let it sit there for 30 seconds) > >On the little window that pops up, where it says 30 seconds, is an icon, which >will reboot immediately if you click on it. Alternatively you can simply >press Enter and have it reboot immediately. yes. I clicked it. nothing happened. worry not. I've created bigger problems for myself since - all of them mythtv related. and actually, somewhere along the way, I did get Deluge to not start when KDE did. perhaps I can now log off as well. who knows... The machine is at home, where it has lost all it's channel bindings, and I'm not messing with it till I get home. Thanks :-) -- Pam from Boston Support Fun TV - Save Chuck! http://chucktv.net/ Scott Bakula News www.bakulanews.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 18 13:51:43 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5IHpgvm006148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:51:43 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5IHpgi3006145 for slug-track29; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:51:42 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5IHpgSo006141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:51:42 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sd.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sd.nks.net [24.73.112.207]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5IHpfJR006153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:51:41 -0400 Received: from elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.70]) by nks-ma-100-sd.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5IHomcx011741 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:50:48 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=VwqteozBfu6rPNuc6C5oUl01CZtoyEACqlImoPTPTnkYydyMd9URgIYZHaPV4Uq5; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.86.224.42] (helo=elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MHLl9-0001W2-Ie for slug@nks.net; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:50:47 -0400 Received: from 97.78.248.237 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:50:46 -0400 Message-ID: <26915467.1245347447580.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:50:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "Pamela J. Ashworth (webmail)" To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] addendum (Romanian hackers) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 042ecc44bb627007a99c02d1653ca5e740683398e744b8a40fa2251e21edd4dcd8f8f0fa4388a048350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.42 X-HELO: elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.301, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net thanks. Jay was going thru the logs last night but I didn't get a full report as it was late. He did change the unbelievably stupid password and also disallow anyone from logging in as root over ssh and scp. (scp is going to be a problem, I just know it. between the tv screen monitor and the remote keyboard/mouse, sometimes the only way I have to move files is remotely with SCP. Isn't SAMBA installed? Jay asks. Nope, not entirely. How can you not entirely install SAMBA? I don't know. Some stuff is shared, some isn't. and I can never find my mouse cursor on that darn screen.) anyway, hopefully he will come and investigate some more. it's actually time to upgrade several things, but he's been putting it off. and before we know it, it will be September, at which time it will be a royal pain to mess with the OS on a DVR. (it's just that every time he upgrades - things break - for weeks) -- Pam from Boston Support Fun TV - Save Chuck! http://chucktv.net/ Scott Bakula News www.bakulanews.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). 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From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 18 23:28:33 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5J3SXwG022326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 23:28:33 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5J3SXSn022312 for slug-track29; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 23:28:33 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5J3SWkv022308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 23:28:33 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sb.nks.net [24.73.112.205]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5J3SW8v029227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 23:28:32 -0400 Received: from vms173013pub.verizon.net (vms173013pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.13]) by nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5J3EfEV030959 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 23:14:41 -0400 Received: from news.home ([96.243.182.3]) by vms173013.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KLG008H4UCGHS83@vms173013.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Thu, 18 Jun 2009 22:14:40 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 23:14:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Eben King X-X-Sender: eben@pc.home To: SLUG Mailing List Subject: [SLUG] strange things are afoot at the XFCE Message-id: User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (DEB 882 2007-12-20) X-GetARealMailreader: ; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:23:25 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5KHNPcW017507 for slug-track29; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:23:25 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5KHNP2n017503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:23:25 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-so.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-so.nks.net [24.73.112.218]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5KHNOPp008978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:23:24 -0400 Received: from vms173011pub.verizon.net (vms173011pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.11]) by nks-ma-100-so.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5KHM2fd026191 for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:22:02 -0400 Received: from news.home ([96.243.182.3]) by vms173011.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KLJ00HB9S8K9CK1@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 12:21:56 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:21:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Eben King X-X-Sender: eben@pc.home To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] addendum In-reply-to: <20090617195430.4f589168@shawn-laptop> Message-id: References: <10940524.1245279211058.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20090617195430.4f589168@shawn-laptop> User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (DEB 882 2007-12-20) X-GetARealMailreader: On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:53:30 -0400 (EDT) > "Pamela J. Ashworth (webmail)" wrote: > >> it's been so long since I've played Linux, that, when my password was >> not working, I had to call my brother to ask how to change the >> password. (couldn't remember the command) so, use little words... >> >> and yes, he did promise to look at it to see if it's been "cracked" >> as soon as he is near a computer again. > > I'm not quite understanding the problem. Is it that something is using > up your cpu but you don't know what? If so, you can run !h in a console > to find out what is currently taking up cpu cycles. Maybe that will help > find a culprit. "!h"? That'll just run the last thing you typed beginning with "h". -- -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81 Q: Why does hamburger have lower energy than steak? A: Because it's in the ground state. -- Harold_of_the_Rocks on Fark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sat Jun 20 13:24:33 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5KHOWKl017673 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:24:32 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5KHOWDq017670 for slug-track29; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:24:32 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5KHOWXx017666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:24:32 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sc.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sc.nks.net [24.73.112.206]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5KHOUnD009070 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:24:32 -0400 Received: from vms173009pub.verizon.net (vms173009pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.9]) by nks-ma-100-sc.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5KHI5OD005757 for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:18:05 -0400 Received: from news.home ([96.243.182.3]) by vms173009.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KLJ003U4S20XWM1@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 12:18:00 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:18:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Eben King X-X-Sender: eben@pc.home To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] addendum (Romanian hackers) In-reply-to: <26915467.1245347447580.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-id: References: <26915467.1245347447580.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (DEB 882 2007-12-20) X-GetARealMailreader: thanks. Jay was going thru the logs last night but I didn't get a full > report as it was late. He did change the unbelievably stupid password and > also disallow anyone from logging in as root over ssh and scp. (scp is > going to be a problem, I just know it. I have the router translate port 567 external -> port 22 internal and do nothing with 22 external, so whenever I log into my machine I have to use -p 567. Won't stop those attackers who do a port scan, but it weeds out the script kiddies who try 22 then give up. So you're selecting a slightly brighter class of attackers. And yeah, disabling root logins over ssh/scp is a really good idea. That way they have to guess three things (your login name, your password, and the root password) to get root access instead of just one (the root password). > anyway, hopefully he will come and investigate some more. it's actually > time to upgrade several things, but he's been putting it off. and before > we know it, it will be September, at which time it will be a royal pain to > mess with the OS on a DVR. (it's just that every time he upgrades - things > break - for weeks) As soon as the S-video -> component adapters arrive AGAIN (so I can have color) I'll try to learn enough about MythTV to get my [AN]TSC tuner card to work with it. Gah. -- -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81 If you need someone to blame Throw a rock in the air You'll hit someone guilty -- U2, _Zooropa_, "Dirty Day" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). 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From owner-slug-track29 Sat Jun 20 14:07:04 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5KI74fq023615 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:07:04 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5KI74Ed023612 for slug-track29; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:07:04 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5KI73va023608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:07:03 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tm.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tm.nks.net [24.73.112.239]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5KI70aT012696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:07:03 -0400 Received: from mail-gx0-f214.google.com (mail-gx0-f214.google.com [209.85.217.214]) by nks-ma-100-tm.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5KHrS34025896 for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:53:29 -0400 Received: by gxk10 with SMTP id 10so3964912gxk.13 for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 10:53:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:date:from:to:subject :message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=MTcGHQJSwLtCQmMfmNpYgSJ+wYHEUoE+4XIasgHqFcM=; b=xxrfvWq5OGZjKqtza/9YLTqf9Jti02WJjvQhHvXUan3pEsQaW9k9cETB5SYfuMwfpn OeTq8vdwWC/MS4RCjsuNz26fLcZ5IyeO354yBLmdc17xINL83y/WRwA0psy3lTLY3fIm ugqculxgXEQYrJW7ji/WxV0maV2Y4Spoh5rAI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=gGutChTzbDUN6DRVMuRNttoGg6FBlr2VT4nOJ0AeQUAf89HmlHlJ79tuHHRqq14HNp SyL7oSl3BtbodHNPP5pjFf8vYPniNSWQVE2+Vpfc02/yDSEd7uZW5r3H7i2VvyGFyuet vZfyausNHMtXm9AeZYNFDkf7Fv5cBASOV1fX8= Received: by 10.151.125.6 with SMTP id c6mr8095679ybn.144.1245520408437; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 10:53:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shawn-laptop (static-96-254-233-175.tampfl.fios.verizon.net [96.254.233.175]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 9sm262194ywf.12.2009.06.20.10.53.27 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 20 Jun 2009 10:53:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:53:25 -0400 From: "Shawn J. Goff" To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] addendum Message-ID: <20090620135325.7a3f0afd@shawn-laptop> In-Reply-To: References: <10940524.1245279211058.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20090617195430.4f589168@shawn-laptop> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.5.0 (GTK+ 2.14.4; i486-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HELO: mail-gx0-f214.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-2.499, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_00 -2.60) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Interesting. On crunchbang (maybe all Ubuntus) it runs top. On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:21:55 -0400 (EDT) Eben King wrote: > On Wed, 17 Jun 2009, Shawn J. Goff wrote: > > > On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:53:30 -0400 (EDT) > > "Pamela J. Ashworth (webmail)" wrote: > > > >> it's been so long since I've played Linux, that, when my password > >> was not working, I had to call my brother to ask how to change the > >> password. (couldn't remember the command) so, use little words... > >> > >> and yes, he did promise to look at it to see if it's been "cracked" > >> as soon as he is near a computer again. > > > > I'm not quite understanding the problem. Is it that something is > > using up your cpu but you don't know what? If so, you can run !h in > > a console to find out what is currently taking up cpu cycles. Maybe > > that will help find a culprit. > > "!h"? That'll just run the last thing you typed beginning with "h". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sat Jun 20 14:54:40 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5KIsemL030267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:54:40 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5KIseqn030264 for slug-track29; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:54:40 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5KIsd3l030260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:54:39 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sc.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sc.nks.net [24.73.112.206]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5KIsdKF015559 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:54:39 -0400 Received: from vms173001pub.verizon.net (vms173001pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.1]) by nks-ma-100-sc.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5KIqljb014562 for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:52:47 -0400 Received: from news.home ([96.243.182.3]) by vms173001.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KLJ0032IWFYAEY3@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:52:46 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:52:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Eben King X-X-Sender: eben@pc.home To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] addendum In-reply-to: <20090620135325.7a3f0afd@shawn-laptop> Message-id: References: <10940524.1245279211058.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20090617195430.4f589168@shawn-laptop> <20090620135325.7a3f0afd@shawn-laptop> User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (DEB 882 2007-12-20) X-GetARealMailreader: On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:21:55 -0400 (EDT) > Eben King wrote: > >> On Wed, 17 Jun 2009, Shawn J. Goff wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:53:30 -0400 (EDT) >>> "Pamela J. Ashworth (webmail)" wrote: >>> >>>> it's been so long since I've played Linux, that, when my password >>>> was not working, I had to call my brother to ask how to change the >>>> password. (couldn't remember the command) so, use little words... >>>> >>>> and yes, he did promise to look at it to see if it's been "cracked" >>>> as soon as he is near a computer again. >>> >>> I'm not quite understanding the problem. Is it that something is >>> using up your cpu but you don't know what? If so, you can run !h in >>> a console to find out what is currently taking up cpu cycles. Maybe >>> that will help find a culprit. >> >> "!h"? That'll just run the last thing you typed beginning with "h". > Interesting. On crunchbang (maybe all Ubuntus) it runs top. I'm running Ubuntu something and it does the usual history-searching thing. "!" is like "^R" without a lot of the interactive features. -- -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP http://royalty.mine.nu:81 Are you confident that you appear to be professional in your electronic communication? Consider this: A: No Q: Can I top post? from nick@xx.co.uk ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sun Jun 21 21:58:39 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5M1wdeQ000409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 21 Jun 2009 21:58:39 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5M1wdm9000406 for slug-track29; Sun, 21 Jun 2009 21:58:39 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5M1wcSH000402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 21 Jun 2009 21:58:38 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tg.nks.net [24.73.112.233]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5M1wc1k007103 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 21 Jun 2009 21:58:38 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-123.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-123.bluehost.com [67.222.38.23]) by nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5M1w75n013153 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 2009 21:58:08 -0400 Received: (qmail 28273 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jun 2009 01:58:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy4.bluehost.com with SMTP; 22 Jun 2009 01:58:02 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=LTmMq6zJEzRlS6O30AH/KOG6poH1JK/WMcAiszoMoGqRrWtKeDqAz45pMV4TIgzOCinVMX5UpK0mYtPRRWx187PrVGde3MLmYVm/+tt5QYri/CQX/yaoisPSyjMJNucA; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MIYnJ-00028T-Lq for slug@nks.net; Sun, 21 Jun 2009 19:58:02 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E5B96190883F for ; Sun, 21 Jun 2009 21:58:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A3EE526.6050306@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 21:57:58 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SLUG Mailing List Subject: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E; url=http://www.scottgrizzard.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/0x2496506E.asc X-Stationery: 0.4.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-123.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-1.7, required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL -1.65, BAYES_40 -0.18, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I am trying to develop a web-based application, and one of the requirements of this endeavor is that it be able to do handwriting recognition from writing on the browser. My thought was to do the reading with JavaScript, and send the "pen movements" to the server in some form of XML, and then do the "handwriting recognition bit" on the server from the pen strokes. Has anyone ever seen some type of handwriting recognition library I could use on the server-side? I looked at CellWriter, but it cannot detect the edges of letters without direct user input, and that is what we are trying to avoid. I am trying to make the system "as paper-like" as possible, and have the user /later/ make corrections to the text that appears in the system. Any thoughts? - - Scott Grizzard -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAko+5SUACgkQARR1QiSWUG6ORwCeJryDDUYJ7Gxy9P6ep+rLbwlA ibIAn3qHEUA5VBdNBBOUwzr77GJh7SfN =QON2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sun Jun 21 22:41:54 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5M2fsge006574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 21 Jun 2009 22:41:54 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5M2fsLJ006571 for slug-track29; Sun, 21 Jun 2009 22:41:54 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5M2fr6Y006560 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 21 Jun 2009 22:41:53 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-a.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-a.nks.net [24.73.112.79]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5M2frfp011316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 21 Jun 2009 22:41:53 -0400 Received: from haylee.gendns10.com (haylee.gendns10.com [216.180.234.5]) by nks-ma-100-a.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5M2f7xQ026529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 21 Jun 2009 22:41:08 -0400 Received: from pool-71-98-170-231.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.98.170.231]:50816 helo=sherman.mars.lan) by haylee.gendns10.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MIZT0-00040G-JS; Sun, 21 Jun 2009 22:41:06 -0400 Received: by sherman.mars.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5BD8F56A58; Sun, 21 Jun 2009 22:41:04 -0400 (EDT) To: slug@nks.net, slug-announce@nks.net, cola@stump.algebra.com Subject: [SLUG] Suncoast LUG Meetings Message-Id: <20090622024104.5BD8F56A58@sherman.mars.lan> Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 22:41:04 -0400 (EDT) From: paulf@quillandmouse.com (Paul M Foster) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - haylee.gendns10.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - nks.net X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - quillandmouse.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-HELO: haylee.gendns10.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-8.672, required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL 0.88, BAYES_50 0.00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, HOST_MISMATCH_NET 0.31, WGL_paulf_Pat_quillandmouse_Pdo_com -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net ************************************* * Suncoast Linux Users Group (SLUG) * * Meeting Schedule * ************************************* TAMPA **************************************************** 14 July 19:00-21:00 Tampa (Usually Tuesday, usually first half of month) Hillsborough Community College Dale Mabry Campus Technology Bldg, Rm 426 4001 Tampa Bay Blvd Tampa, FL See http://www.hccfl.edu/pollock/Docs/DM-Map.htm for directions. *********************************************************** ACTIVITIES: Meetings may include: 1) Presentation: As indicated. 2) Question & Answer Session. 3) Raffle and free stuff! Bring your boxes, questions, problems, and plenty of good cheer! (And don't forget to start your installs early!) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 22 13:07:59 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MH7wqB030998 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:07:59 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5MH7wCZ030995 for slug-track29; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:07:58 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MH7wn4030991 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:07:58 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sp.nks.net [24.73.112.219]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MH7vcc014585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:07:58 -0400 Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.120]) by nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MGa2o5028109 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:36:02 -0400 Received: from Darth ([68.205.9.122]) by cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090622163601379.ELCA19511@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:36:01 +0000 From: "Ken Elliott" To: References: <4A3EE526.6050306@scottgrizzard.com> In-Reply-To: <4A3EE526.6050306@scottgrizzard.com> Subject: RE: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:36:08 -0400 Message-ID: <000801c9f357$8c6a4990$a53edcb0$@rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acny3SIQOVbxiCbrTF26mRkNQ+yzRgAeXLeg Content-Language: en-us X-HELO: cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-1.974, required 6, AWL -2.23, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_youhavewon 0.25) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Interesting - and I suspect quite difficult. Is this platform independent, or would you allow plug-ins on the client side. Does it have to be browser-based, or might you have an application specific to your system? How will the handwriting be entered? Wacom tablet, or something else? A mouse is a very poor device at capturing handwriting. My thought is if you use something like a Wacom tablet, then you could have a local app provide a writing area, do the transformation locally, then push the results to the server. That would scale pretty well. Many platforms (like tablet PCs) have the subsystem built in, so this might be the easiest path. If you capture all the X/Y data as XML, then you generate a fair amount of traffic, and the server has a big load. That might work, but won't scale well at all, if you get a lot of clients. Ken Elliott ===================== -----Original Message----- From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Scott Grizzard Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 9:58 PM To: SLUG Mailing List Subject: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I am trying to develop a web-based application, and one of the requirements of this endeavor is that it be able to do handwriting recognition from writing on the browser. My thought was to do the reading with JavaScript, and send the "pen movements" to the server in some form of XML, and then do the "handwriting recognition bit" on the server from the pen strokes. Has anyone ever seen some type of handwriting recognition library I could use on the server-side? I looked at CellWriter, but it cannot detect the edges of letters without direct user input, and that is what we are trying to avoid. I am trying to make the system "as paper-like" as possible, and have the user /later/ make corrections to the text that appears in the system. Any thoughts? - - Scott Grizzard -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAko+5SUACgkQARR1QiSWUG6ORwCeJryDDUYJ7Gxy9P6ep+rLbwlA ibIAn3qHEUA5VBdNBBOUwzr77GJh7SfN =QON2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 22 13:59:49 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MHxmun005825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:59:49 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5MHxm2n005822 for slug-track29; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:59:48 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MHxmTB005818 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:59:48 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tj.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tj.nks.net [24.73.112.236]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MHxmMH020806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:59:48 -0400 Received: from web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.125.98]) by nks-ma-100-tj.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5MHwkOk004965 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:58:47 -0400 Received: (qmail 3030 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Jun 2009 17:58:46 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1245693526; bh=NDxGOddCUijZ5n7lbnE3kTVVKQ19gNtCdLo75co/jrU=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=WTn06XW3MXzXOH0PmuaRAldfO7Qy4yCVaEJGliQJ/QJN/ExgHNX6JPRX95Px+cN5JVrLSRsDAhiadNZnVeZJZHqWHEPsNVv7dQoIJXkisdRrLx5J/b4eM/W31B/EyfOiOKY0C4Df2uH/9ScrWShXgrzHi7SZJ1SLG0SSHC1EuqQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=NNTZmOikPTbdVVOseStuT9Manc1YPdXwN9nrSQBPLKieKo/AyFRwIdPKX6iIBFUUtlU4YbvOzDThtD/eienRPTvIsL94HxkGnE4KoBLhmPn/NY6OgsTejwsqtN+VKTqWjCRVtDZ00F/J6JAH2ejrI2hNuYLW6hTZOBfP02m9tcA=; Message-ID: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: JhcCizQVM1mzbqO1UCM.OE8DNYoMMcJlL8vA_8nebsAPqZg3k9HJF9K.lRYygzEI09XyplHlq9qtaLkn9K.Cn8tkxiwxAsbwnrbZ8NM82JBy3WyfGYrvUvVeDYzcn165wVZ3vAz4FO_SDKdfKbJwiTYMTeVU6LXFF2utPWUI7Tlwef8gG9YbooVT5ce25M1erg7DIv5kKSYLm.h7VVX_57YfwT_Xu3VjX.m8bQSLIe8cMv1oSwJdlV4lKfsNl4992RJ8zyt0Z9ddoPbDWCbb0Q53QojXnMjsvDR9J2kri3IoXSE_81ObygJtGopT8KQ19Fi8xFrXXmX_qSXxr43iSB1zpGyVc7bdfmuE1d4- Received: from [87.248.121.244] by web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:58:46 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15 Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:58:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Setheck Subject: Re: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? To: "slug@nks.net" Cc: "" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-HELO: web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=2.259, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_youhavewon 0.25, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: ss X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Ken, I'm confused by your response. If you map an input device like the tablet to the mouse and use ajax to capture only mouse input from the client. Wouldn't it be easy to store all serverside? I don't see why this couldn't be platform independent or how making a local app to coincide would be better. But that's just my opinion. As far as the OSS library for handwriting I don't know if you will find the quality recognition you are looking for for free. It may be worth purchasing an sdk from a company specializing in handwriting recognition. Assuming you can find a product that fits your budget. Sent from my iPhone On Jun 22, 2009, at 12:36 PM, "Ken Elliott" wrote: Interesting - and I suspect quite difficult. Is this platform independent, or would you allow plug-ins on the client side. Does it have to be browser-based, or might you have an application specific to your system? How will the handwriting be entered? Wacom tablet, or something else? A mouse is a very poor device at capturing handwriting. My thought is if you use something like a Wacom tablet, then you could have a local app provide a writing area, do the transformation locally, then push the results to the server. That would scale pretty well. Many platforms (like tablet PCs) have the subsystem built in, so this might be the easiest path. If you capture all the X/Y data as XML, then you generate a fair amount of traffic, and the server has a big load. That might work, but won't scale well at all, if you get a lot of clients. Ken Elliott ===================== -----Original Message----- From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Scott Grizzard Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 9:58 PM To: SLUG Mailing List Subject: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I am trying to develop a web-based application, and one of the requirements of this endeavor is that it be able to do handwriting recognition from writing on the browser. My thought was to do the reading with JavaScript, and send the "pen movements" to the server in some form of XML, and then do the "handwriting recognition bit" on the server from the pen strokes. Has anyone ever seen some type of handwriting recognition library I could use on the server-side? I looked at CellWriter, but it cannot detect the edges of letters without direct user input, and that is what we are trying to avoid. I am trying to make the system "as paper-like" as possible, and have the user /later/ make corrections to the text that appears in the system. Any thoughts? - - Scott Grizzard -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAko+5SUACgkQARR1QiSWUG6ORwCeJryDDUYJ7Gxy9P6ep+rLbwlA ibIAn3qHEUA5VBdNBBOUwzr77GJh7SfN =QON2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 22 14:02:48 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MI2lgZ006330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:02:47 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5MI2lV0006327 for slug-track29; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:02:47 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MI2ljq006312 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:02:47 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sa.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sa.nks.net [24.73.112.204]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MI2i59021220 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:02:47 -0400 Received: from web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.125.98]) by nks-ma-100-sa.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5MHwkuv025506 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:58:47 -0400 Received: (qmail 3030 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Jun 2009 17:58:46 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1245693526; bh=NDxGOddCUijZ5n7lbnE3kTVVKQ19gNtCdLo75co/jrU=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=WTn06XW3MXzXOH0PmuaRAldfO7Qy4yCVaEJGliQJ/QJN/ExgHNX6JPRX95Px+cN5JVrLSRsDAhiadNZnVeZJZHqWHEPsNVv7dQoIJXkisdRrLx5J/b4eM/W31B/EyfOiOKY0C4Df2uH/9ScrWShXgrzHi7SZJ1SLG0SSHC1EuqQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=NNTZmOikPTbdVVOseStuT9Manc1YPdXwN9nrSQBPLKieKo/AyFRwIdPKX6iIBFUUtlU4YbvOzDThtD/eienRPTvIsL94HxkGnE4KoBLhmPn/NY6OgsTejwsqtN+VKTqWjCRVtDZ00F/J6JAH2ejrI2hNuYLW6hTZOBfP02m9tcA=; Message-ID: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: JhcCizQVM1mzbqO1UCM.OE8DNYoMMcJlL8vA_8nebsAPqZg3k9HJF9K.lRYygzEI09XyplHlq9qtaLkn9K.Cn8tkxiwxAsbwnrbZ8NM82JBy3WyfGYrvUvVeDYzcn165wVZ3vAz4FO_SDKdfKbJwiTYMTeVU6LXFF2utPWUI7Tlwef8gG9YbooVT5ce25M1erg7DIv5kKSYLm.h7VVX_57YfwT_Xu3VjX.m8bQSLIe8cMv1oSwJdlV4lKfsNl4992RJ8zyt0Z9ddoPbDWCbb0Q53QojXnMjsvDR9J2kri3IoXSE_81ObygJtGopT8KQ19Fi8xFrXXmX_qSXxr43iSB1zpGyVc7bdfmuE1d4- Received: from [87.248.121.244] by web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:58:46 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15 Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:58:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Setheck Subject: Re: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? To: "slug@nks.net" Cc: "" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-HELO: web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=2.259, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_youhavewon 0.25, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: ss X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Ken, I'm confused by your response. If you map an input device like the tablet to the mouse and use ajax to capture only mouse input from the client. Wouldn't it be easy to store all serverside? I don't see why this couldn't be platform independent or how making a local app to coincide would be better. But that's just my opinion. As far as the OSS library for handwriting I don't know if you will find the quality recognition you are looking for for free. It may be worth purchasing an sdk from a company specializing in handwriting recognition. Assuming you can find a product that fits your budget. Sent from my iPhone On Jun 22, 2009, at 12:36 PM, "Ken Elliott" wrote: Interesting - and I suspect quite difficult. Is this platform independent, or would you allow plug-ins on the client side. Does it have to be browser-based, or might you have an application specific to your system? How will the handwriting be entered? Wacom tablet, or something else? A mouse is a very poor device at capturing handwriting. My thought is if you use something like a Wacom tablet, then you could have a local app provide a writing area, do the transformation locally, then push the results to the server. That would scale pretty well. Many platforms (like tablet PCs) have the subsystem built in, so this might be the easiest path. If you capture all the X/Y data as XML, then you generate a fair amount of traffic, and the server has a big load. That might work, but won't scale well at all, if you get a lot of clients. Ken Elliott ===================== -----Original Message----- From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Scott Grizzard Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 9:58 PM To: SLUG Mailing List Subject: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I am trying to develop a web-based application, and one of the requirements of this endeavor is that it be able to do handwriting recognition from writing on the browser. My thought was to do the reading with JavaScript, and send the "pen movements" to the server in some form of XML, and then do the "handwriting recognition bit" on the server from the pen strokes. Has anyone ever seen some type of handwriting recognition library I could use on the server-side? I looked at CellWriter, but it cannot detect the edges of letters without direct user input, and that is what we are trying to avoid. I am trying to make the system "as paper-like" as possible, and have the user /later/ make corrections to the text that appears in the system. Any thoughts? - - Scott Grizzard -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAko+5SUACgkQARR1QiSWUG6ORwCeJryDDUYJ7Gxy9P6ep+rLbwlA ibIAn3qHEUA5VBdNBBOUwzr77GJh7SfN =QON2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 22 14:31:35 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MIVYNK010369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:31:35 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5MIVYtf010366 for slug-track29; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:31:34 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MIVYvW010362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:31:34 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-za.lvs.nks.net (nks-ma-100-za.nks.net [24.73.115.97]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MIVWBd025099 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:31:34 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-158.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-158.bluehost.com [67.222.39.38]) by nks-ma-100-za.lvs.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5MIQuhM030284 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:26:57 -0400 Received: (qmail 25505 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jun 2009 18:26:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy5.bluehost.com with SMTP; 22 Jun 2009 18:26:52 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=EwlKx0fu4BM0QlTjI9mBhe8D0myH1qYCsy0sH1N3YxBS9Ygs5r2mBX30r57DfkeHP54/1BUl1Q4qdxUvphJ+Dxfo8R+NzLXAOnrdA10kIUt1dsl4HeGgNN+q2u/GB/oZ; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MIoEF-0008F8-JH for slug@nks.net; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:26:51 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2C218190883F for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:26:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A3FCCEA.1050009@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:26:50 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? References: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E; url=http://www.scottgrizzard.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/0x2496506E.asc X-Stationery: 0.4.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-158.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.586, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAD_WORD_diet 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_youhavewon 0.25, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14) X-Spam-Status: No Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by slug-list-00.nks.net id n5MIVYvV010363 Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I want it to be platform independent, which is why I wanted JavaScript to "Capture the Ink", but then have it send the "ink" to the server so the server could process it. The problems with using the client's libraries to do the ink capture is 1) The system /must/ store the original ink 2) I want the customer to be able to see the source of the writing application, and if I use windows' handwriting library (or Wacom's), I don't /really/ have an open-source solution. 3) I want to be as client-platform independent as possible. 4) I want the system to learn the /user's/ handwriting, no matter which "client tablet" he is using at a given moment. 5) I want the client to be "diet-hardware", to keep costs low. My other option was to build a browser-plugin, but... see above. I was thinking the "processing library" should be a java library, so you could "plug it right into" a GWT application and run it on Tomcat, but it really doesn't matter since you can call c++ libraries from Java. For my application, Java would be better for KISS reasons, but portability would probably demand otherwise. - - Scott Setheck wrote: > Ken, > I'm confused by your response. If you map an input device like the tablet to the mouse and use ajax to capture only mouse input from the client. Wouldn't it be easy to store all serverside? I don't see why this couldn't be platform independent or how making a local app to coincide would be better. But that's just my opinion. > > As far as the OSS library for handwriting I don't know if you will find the quality recognition you are looking for for free. It may be worth purchasing an sdk from a company specializing in handwriting recognition. Assuming you can find a product that fits your budget. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 22, 2009, at 12:36 PM, "Ken Elliott" wrote: > > Interesting - and I suspect quite difficult. > > Is this platform independent, or would you allow plug-ins on the client > side. Does it have to be browser-based, or might you have an application > specific to your system? How will the handwriting be entered? Wacom > tablet, or something else? A mouse is a very poor device at capturing > handwriting. > > My thought is if you use something like a Wacom tablet, then you could have > a local app provide a writing area, do the transformation locally, then push > the results to the server. That would scale pretty well. Many platforms > (like tablet PCs) have the subsystem built in, so this might be the easiest > path. > > If you capture all the X/Y data as XML, then you generate a fair amount of > traffic, and the server has a big load. That might work, but won't scale > well at all, if you get a lot of clients. > > > Ken Elliott > ===================== > > -----Original Message----- > From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Scott Grizzard > Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 9:58 PM > To: SLUG Mailing List > Subject: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? > > I am trying to develop a web-based application, and one of the > requirements of this endeavor is that it be able to do handwriting > recognition from writing on the browser. > > My thought was to do the reading with JavaScript, and send the "pen > movements" to the server in some form of XML, and then do the > "handwriting recognition bit" on the server from the pen strokes. > > Has anyone ever seen some type of handwriting recognition library I > could use on the server-side? I looked at CellWriter, but it cannot > detect the edges of letters without direct user input, and that is what > we are trying to avoid. I am trying to make the system "as paper-like" > as possible, and have the user /later/ make corrections to the text that > appears in the system. > > Any thoughts? > > - Scott Grizzard -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAko/zOkACgkQARR1QiSWUG72hQCbBc11aJ7+1pa8kaia11Gx6p1b Lb0An0FP7U8M+iz2j+il35nynZHJeU16 =iMPn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 22 15:25:07 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MJP6KP017958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:25:06 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5MJP60J017955 for slug-track29; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:25:06 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MJP5f3017951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:25:06 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sp.nks.net [24.73.112.219]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MJP5ln031387 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:25:05 -0400 Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.123]) by nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MIsjLO008081 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:54:45 -0400 Received: from Darth ([68.205.9.122]) by cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090622185444245.LGWI24524@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:54:44 +0000 From: "Ken Elliott" To: References: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:54:52 -0400 Message-ID: <001401c9f36a$ed57b180$c8071480$@rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcnzY00+jRJLil6CSYWQlNG/ge+HogABkSGg Content-Language: en-us X-HELO: cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-1.357, required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL -1.36, BAYES_50 0.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net >> " I'm confused by your response. If you map an input device like the tablet to the mouse and use ajax to capture only mouse input from the client. Wouldn't it be easy to store all serverside?" Pointing devices either send a stream of x/y deltas, or absolute x/y position. So the resolution will dictate how much data there is to process. It could be quite a lot. If you package that data as XML, it is quite bulky (as opposed to binary data). Now the server has to take that data, decode it and figure out what was written. All that just to get a few pieces of text. Add 1000 client and you have imposed quite a load to the server. Add to that the fact the a mouse doesn't do a good job with handwriting and you have a system that will have a difficult time satisfying the user. So if we solve the mouse problem by using a Wacom tablet, we now impose a limitation to the system. If this is a private system, where we can dictate hardware, then we can easily dictate the use of a local app. Use of a Wacom tablet and a local app means 1000 users will have the power of 1000 PCs, each dedicated to resolving the handwriting-to-text transformation. This scales quite well and simplifies the server side. Is any of this a problem? That is why I asked what the input devices would be and other questions. Without that data, we will all be guessing. Ken Elliott ===================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 22 16:47:10 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MKlAEg029489 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:47:10 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5MKl9xh029486 for slug-track29; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:47:10 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MKl9Le029482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:47:09 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-i.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-i.nks.net [24.73.112.87]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MKl728008243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:47:09 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-19.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-19.bluehost.com [69.89.20.234]) by nks-ma-100-i.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5MKOM9p029623 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:24:23 -0400 Received: (qmail 20954 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jun 2009 20:24:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 22 Jun 2009 20:24:22 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=js+PhPSqT2uazfhbZVHgR9YTiB1diNGs7SKYTvDcfVc4y114JIUwWkHwAlOef2D1Vo9yI0G5PjDnQuaURuFGFm9pFXLoA4ss3VBgYrnJHOdsc40VxsW3Kw04ztN6Prbp; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MIq3x-0006aJ-Mk for slug@nks.net; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:24:22 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 934F9190883F for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:24:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A3FE874.3030504@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:24:20 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? References: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001401c9f36a$ed57b180$c8071480$@rr.com> In-Reply-To: <001401c9f36a$ed57b180$c8071480$@rr.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E; url=http://www.scottgrizzard.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/0x2496506E.asc X-Stationery: 0.4.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-19.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-4.82, required 6, AWL -2.91, BAYES_00 -2.60, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, HELO_MISMATCH_COM 0.55) X-Spam-Status: No Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by slug-list-00.nks.net id n5MKl9Ld029483 Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 You have to store the original "scribblings" on the server anyway, since it is medical data and you want /other/ doctors to be able to see the original script (even if you don't "want" it, it is a certification requirement anyway). By storing the actual pen strokes (instead of just the bit maps), you can do handwriting processing by any system you want, so if someone develops a "better way to do it", they could plug their recognition software into my, pretty, open source solution, and /all/ of the "other pieces" of the system still work. I am fine sending the information however works (xml or binary) as long as it is the /same/ information regardless of the client, which is why I wanted to use javascript to send the information to the server. I recognize the server load problem, but the processing does not need to be "real time" for now, and the system is going in a six-doctor office at most, so there aren't a whole lot of "other users". - - Scott Ken Elliott wrote: >>> " I'm confused by your response. If you map an input device like the > tablet to the mouse and use ajax to capture only mouse input from the > client. Wouldn't it be easy to store all serverside?" > > Pointing devices either send a stream of x/y deltas, or absolute x/y > position. So the resolution will dictate how much data there is to process. > It could be quite a lot. If you package that data as XML, it is quite bulky > (as opposed to binary data). Now the server has to take that data, decode > it and figure out what was written. All that just to get a few pieces of > text. Add 1000 client and you have imposed quite a load to the server. > > Add to that the fact the a mouse doesn't do a good job with handwriting and > you have a system that will have a difficult time satisfying the user. > > So if we solve the mouse problem by using a Wacom tablet, we now impose a > limitation to the system. If this is a private system, where we can dictate > hardware, then we can easily dictate the use of a local app. Use of a Wacom > tablet and a local app means 1000 users will have the power of 1000 PCs, > each dedicated to resolving the handwriting-to-text transformation. This > scales quite well and simplifies the server side. > > Is any of this a problem? That is why I asked what the input devices would > be and other questions. Without that data, we will all be guessing. > > Ken Elliott > ===================== > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAko/6HIACgkQARR1QiSWUG6y4gCgmJ/4Sq6yUaZYDSEHpQgMW+IJ 6lYAn3NQvXdoleTSOBG6m7p0Q/ynHwIf =satz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 22 16:52:13 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MKqDpR030193 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:52:13 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5MKqCtR030190 for slug-track29; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:52:12 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MKqCef030186 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:52:12 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-a.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-a.nks.net [24.73.112.79]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MKqCqi008661 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:52:12 -0400 Received: from new.owlriver.com (new.owlriver.com [96.11.188.223]) by nks-ma-100-a.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MKcjDM005648 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:38:46 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by new.owlriver.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n5MKchkf010703 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:38:44 -0400 Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:38:43 -0400 (EDT) From: R P Herrold To: slug@nks.net Subject: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? In-Reply-To: <4A3FCCEA.1050009@scottgrizzard.com> Message-ID: References: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A3FCCEA.1050009@scottgrizzard.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LRH 1167 2008-08-23) X-M: Go Blue X-GnuPG-GPG-Key-ID: 0x9B649644 X-OpenPGP-Key-ID: 0x7BFB98B9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.2 (new.owlriver.com [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:38:44 -0400 (EDT) X-HELO: new.owlriver.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-9.799, required 6, autolearn=not spam, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAD_WORD_diet 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, WGL_herrold_Pat_owlriver_Pdo_com -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net On Mon, 22 Jun 2009, Scott Grizzard wrote: > I want it to be platform independent, which is why I wanted JavaScript > to "Capture the Ink", but then have it send the "ink" to the server so > the server could process it. I have an application [Xournal, v 0.4.0.1] under Linux [CentOS 5] that captures mouse 'signings' and will emit a PDF (which can be re-coded into to TIFF for OCR purposes, programatically) -- here a Wacom pad, and a conventional PS/2 mouse. http://www.herrold.com/2009-06-22-Note-16-31.pdf I do not know that anything could 'read' what I intended ... it seemed quite combersome. > The problems with using the client's libraries to do the ink capture is > 1) The system /must/ store the original ink - check > 2) I want the customer to be able to see the source of the writing > application, and if I use windows' handwriting library (or Wacom's), I > don't /really/ have an open-source solution. - check, and FOSS to boot > 3) I want to be as client-platform independent as possible. - I am told Xournal has analogs in proprietary OS space > 4) I want the system to learn the /user's/ handwriting, no matter which > "client tablet" he is using at a given moment. -- no idea how to skin this cat ;) > 5) I want the client to be "diet-hardware", to keep costs low. - check -- simple USB port, and simple X environemnt hope this helps -- Russ herrold ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 22 17:46:09 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MLk9F6005367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:46:09 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5MLk9D7005364 for slug-track29; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:46:09 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MLk98R005360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:46:09 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tg.nks.net [24.73.112.233]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MLk9UH012961 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:46:09 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-20.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-20.bluehost.com [69.89.20.235]) by nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5MLGg8p031103 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:16:43 -0400 Received: (qmail 6239 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jun 2009 21:16:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 22 Jun 2009 21:16:41 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=NeR9Q7ASsA3dqk/QuvKsBYclzvokFZvmHQlaGLPD5vasKwy+k4RCFIpAPWfxFsciJ8lbcswWKRhLm12qRezE3JaECsf8rTq6DrlqL01oVJecJQQnzP2wzrLsIzBsDnYe; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MIqsa-0008SO-Qw for slug@nks.net; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:16:41 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A6D27190883F for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:16:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A3FF4B6.3010701@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:16:38 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? References: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A3FCCEA.1050009@scottgrizzard.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E; url=http://www.scottgrizzard.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/0x2496506E.asc X-Stationery: 0.4.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-20.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-0.657, required 6, AWL -1.59, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAD_WORD_diet 0.10, BAYES_00 -2.60, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, NO_DNS_FOR_FROM 3.20) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I like xournal, but will it "read" the writing so users can search it? Handwriting recognition has always been one of those features that is "five years off", but it is such a killer app for these doctors that having it, even if the doctor had to go back and edit corrections later, would be a game-changer for them. The big problem with all of these emr systems is it takes tasks that doctors have been offloading to lesser-paid staff and makes the doctor deal with them, making doctors less productive. If you could store patient notes as ink, and then let a doctor's assistant go back through them and correct an automated "initial rendering", you have gone a long way towards making EMR systems "productivity enhancing" for doctors. - - Scott R P Herrold wrote: > On Mon, 22 Jun 2009, Scott Grizzard wrote: > >> I want it to be platform independent, which is why I wanted JavaScript >> to "Capture the Ink", but then have it send the "ink" to the server so >> the server could process it. > > I have an application [Xournal, v 0.4.0.1] under Linux [CentOS 5] that > captures mouse 'signings' and will emit a PDF (which can be re-coded > into to TIFF for OCR purposes, programatically) -- here a Wacom pad, and > a conventional PS/2 mouse. > > http://www.herrold.com/2009-06-22-Note-16-31.pdf > > I do not know that anything could 'read' what I intended ... it seemed > quite combersome. > >> The problems with using the client's libraries to do the ink capture is >> 1) The system /must/ store the original ink > - check > >> 2) I want the customer to be able to see the source of the writing >> application, and if I use windows' handwriting library (or Wacom's), I >> don't /really/ have an open-source solution. > - check, and FOSS to boot > >> 3) I want to be as client-platform independent as possible. > - I am told Xournal has analogs in proprietary OS space > >> 4) I want the system to learn the /user's/ handwriting, no matter which >> "client tablet" he is using at a given moment. > -- no idea how to skin this cat ;) > >> 5) I want the client to be "diet-hardware", to keep costs low. > - check -- simple USB port, and simple X environemnt > > hope this helps > > -- Russ herrold > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAko/9LUACgkQARR1QiSWUG77vwCfSho1nhZBiPDwidh54DgMKpqo s5UAniOkz/wR3p51FTJ9Il9nbghsLaiU =JNvC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 22 18:22:17 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MMMHIV010498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:22:17 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5MMMH9q010495 for slug-track29; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:22:17 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MMMGdQ010491 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:22:17 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tc.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tc.nks.net [24.73.112.229]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MMMGdw015883 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:22:16 -0400 Received: from haylee.gendns10.com (haylee.gendns10.com [216.180.234.5]) by nks-ma-100-tc.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MLnCAH006377 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:49:13 -0400 Received: from pool-71-98-170-231.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.98.170.231]:50810 helo=sherman.mars.lan) by haylee.gendns10.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MIrO4-0003IS-Ut for slug@nks.net; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:49:13 -0400 Received: by sherman.mars.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E26AC56A58; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:49:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:49:09 -0400 From: Paul M Foster To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? Message-ID: <20090622214909.GG14822@quillandmouse.com> Mail-Followup-To: slug@nks.net References: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001401c9f36a$ed57b180$c8071480$@rr.com> <4A3FE874.3030504@scottgrizzard.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4A3FE874.3030504@scottgrizzard.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-11) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - haylee.gendns10.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - nks.net X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - quillandmouse.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-HELO: haylee.gendns10.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-8.144, required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL 1.72, BAYES_50 0.00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, WGL_paulf_Pat_quillandmouse_Pdo_com -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 04:24:20PM -0400, Scott Grizzard wrote: > You have to store the original "scribblings" on the server anyway, since > it is medical data and you want /other/ doctors to be able to see the > original script (even if you don't "want" it, it is a certification > requirement anyway). Wow, I just had a brilliant idea! Teach the doctors to *type*! ;-} Paul -- Paul M. Foster ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 22 19:30:50 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MNUosK020117 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:30:50 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5MNUotf020114 for slug-track29; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:30:50 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MNUnQd020110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:30:49 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tb.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tb.nks.net [24.73.112.228]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5MNUnwm022073 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:30:49 -0400 Received: from smtp105.prem.mail.ac4.yahoo.com (smtp105.prem.mail.ac4.yahoo.com [76.13.13.44]) by nks-ma-100-tb.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5MMH4Yr004570 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:17:04 -0400 Received: (qmail 68662 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2009 22:17:04 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-Id:From:To:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:References:X-Mailer; b=HVQROUWJj7Q4A8EEDr28TsXi+625gBVCOGTuow0kEcBmm1IovWphMfGJSBI/E/LN1jKk1meaLSs/ODo1kxTHzTx+wz2k6WRQfQekor+D0UtFIDCXh2WgLUcxj/EWDbTGwFlKaBSlX9w3WIYba7EVuO5nuXSu9F03NTkF0Iv1hZo= ; Received: from cpe-173-169-22-31.tampabay.res.rr.com (setheck@173.169.22.31 with plain) by smtp105.prem.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jun 2009 15:17:03 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: JC3snfOswBDlBc8LaSZBCG0sdQA- X-YMail-OSG: csQ0i9sVM1kHc09bw2Uv2wc6UYGi0XCSqubJ42gyIx4p0x3ktQUMXtJM4eChesJpUTjKNT3u7dtXYlHZdWS3iO1RjKAyjR5zfyMDLNhrpPldE65i0sbb..mPMo5wZz3JY6iADHDJhg3h2c9YwMND_aQr2FJkjnM97Y7lbY6b1VczkD9XHa8Qu6jD1beOOiqKWLA0TjGDWr4xyHWyUuZD2BKgTG5Qm5c9OwNk.u15Yqa9sC74EW26VxzFHNkF5iL8go5PactarC6qftRugsfcLR2EKJ39.JRsfYStt3mU3Jx5FSXoLYiUJS6K8CQCY_zJAQ0y X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-Id: <576C1F10-EF96-458A-AC18-EED0E95024F2@yahoo.com> From: Setheck To: slug@nks.net In-Reply-To: <001401c9f36a$ed57b180$c8071480$@rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Subject: Re: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:17:03 -0400 References: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001401c9f36a$ed57b180$c8071480$@rr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) X-HELO: smtp105.prem.mail.ac4.yahoo.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.002, required 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_50 0.00, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY 0.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net I understand an input device sends a stream of information, but why would you want the stream, instead, wouldn't you just want to use a web drawing canvas type app? If you could do it with vector graphics you would lose the problem with resolution. But that may open another can of worms. On Jun 22, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Ken Elliott wrote: >>> " I'm confused by your response. If you map an input device like the > tablet to the mouse and use ajax to capture only mouse input from the > client. Wouldn't it be easy to store all serverside?" > > Pointing devices either send a stream of x/y deltas, or absolute x/y > position. So the resolution will dictate how much data there is to > process. > It could be quite a lot. If you package that data as XML, it is > quite bulky > (as opposed to binary data). Now the server has to take that data, > decode > it and figure out what was written. All that just to get a few > pieces of > text. Add 1000 client and you have imposed quite a load to the > server. > > Add to that the fact the a mouse doesn't do a good job with > handwriting and > you have a system that will have a difficult time satisfying the user. > > So if we solve the mouse problem by using a Wacom tablet, we now > impose a > limitation to the system. If this is a private system, where we can > dictate > hardware, then we can easily dictate the use of a local app. Use of > a Wacom > tablet and a local app means 1000 users will have the power of 1000 > PCs, > each dedicated to resolving the handwriting-to-text transformation. > This > scales quite well and simplifies the server side. > > Is any of this a problem? That is why I asked what the input > devices would > be and other questions. Without that data, we will all be guessing. > > Ken Elliott > ===================== > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 22 21:10:17 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5N1AG6r001621 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:10:16 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5N1AGud001618 for slug-track29; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:10:16 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5N1AGeX001614 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:10:16 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sc.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sc.nks.net [24.73.112.206]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5N1AEpw032532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:10:16 -0400 Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.121]) by nks-ma-100-sc.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5N0vkSG027406 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:57:47 -0400 Received: from Darth ([68.205.9.122]) by cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090623005745892.ZDVQ20969@cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com> for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 00:57:45 +0000 From: "Ken Elliott" To: References: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001401c9f36a$ed57b180$c8071480$@rr.com> <576C1F10-EF96-458A-AC18-EED0E95024F2@yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <576C1F10-EF96-458A-AC18-EED0E95024F2@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:57:53 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c9f39d$a480a880$ed81f980$@rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcnzkY2004rUumPpSA22ZY0yzwkdJAAC0mNg Content-Language: en-us X-HELO: cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.549, required 6, AWL 0.05, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_Getthesizeyouwant 0.50) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net The number of vectors needed to represent handwriting is huge. It would help to use something like NURBS to reduce the data size, but that requires yet another transformation. If you use a raster "canvas", then you need to map the mouse movements to the canvas. If the resolution of the canvas is low, the data is smaller, but you have a loss of the small details. Using a higher resolution canvas captures the details, but greatly increases the data size. This is why such applications are usually run locally. You have all the horsepower available to transform the handwriting into data. But Scott has a set of goals that make this approach undesirable to him. Like I said - this could be difficult. But I understand the attraction of the challenge. Ken Elliott ===================== -----Original Message----- From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Setheck Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 6:17 PM To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? I understand an input device sends a stream of information, but why would you want the stream, instead, wouldn't you just want to use a web drawing canvas type app? If you could do it with vector graphics you would lose the problem with resolution. But that may open another can of worms. On Jun 22, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Ken Elliott wrote: >>> " I'm confused by your response. If you map an input device like the > tablet to the mouse and use ajax to capture only mouse input from the > client. Wouldn't it be easy to store all serverside?" > > Pointing devices either send a stream of x/y deltas, or absolute x/y > position. So the resolution will dictate how much data there is to > process. > It could be quite a lot. If you package that data as XML, it is > quite bulky > (as opposed to binary data). Now the server has to take that data, > decode > it and figure out what was written. All that just to get a few > pieces of > text. Add 1000 client and you have imposed quite a load to the > server. > > Add to that the fact the a mouse doesn't do a good job with > handwriting and > you have a system that will have a difficult time satisfying the user. > > So if we solve the mouse problem by using a Wacom tablet, we now > impose a > limitation to the system. If this is a private system, where we can > dictate > hardware, then we can easily dictate the use of a local app. Use of > a Wacom > tablet and a local app means 1000 users will have the power of 1000 > PCs, > each dedicated to resolving the handwriting-to-text transformation. > This > scales quite well and simplifies the server side. > > Is any of this a problem? That is why I asked what the input > devices would > be and other questions. Without that data, we will all be guessing. > > Ken Elliott > ===================== > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 22 21:21:52 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5N1LqqN003330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:21:52 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5N1Lq2O003322 for slug-track29; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:21:52 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5N1LpWr003312 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:21:51 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sb.nks.net [24.73.112.205]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5N1LpfW001448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:21:51 -0400 Received: from vms173007pub.verizon.net (vms173007pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.7]) by nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5N0DA7j001367 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:13:11 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173007.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KLO009XJ0LT4JJ0@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:13:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A401E64.1000608@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:14:28 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? References: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001401c9f36a$ed57b180$c8071480$@rr.com> <4A3FE874.3030504@scottgrizzard.com> <20090622214909.GG14822@quillandmouse.com> In-reply-to: <20090622214909.GG14822@quillandmouse.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173007pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.096, required 6, AWL -0.05, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_05 -1.11, BP_youhavewon 0.25, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Paul M Foster wrote: > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 04:24:20PM -0400, Scott Grizzard wrote: > >> You have to store the original "scribblings" on the server anyway, since >> it is medical data and you want /other/ doctors to be able to see the >> original script (even if you don't "want" it, it is a certification >> requirement anyway). > > Wow, I just had a brilliant idea! Teach the doctors to *type*! ;-} > > Paul > Hi Paul, There are some jobs that doctors just won't do. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 22 21:29:36 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5N1Taxx004401 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:29:36 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5N1TapG004398 for slug-track29; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:29:36 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5N1TZaS004394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:29:36 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sc.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sc.nks.net [24.73.112.206]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5N1TZKe002224 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:29:35 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-02.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-02.bluehost.com [69.89.21.12]) by nks-ma-100-sc.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5N1STcv031030 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:28:30 -0400 Received: (qmail 4111 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jun 2009 01:28:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 23 Jun 2009 01:28:29 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=bldaPOy+rcA5VNxsVsH2v343lu7zV0jcY8lrpczqUpszBIRPTu7YPdwt4QKVvnAqCtFLMdiru5uRtMoNBcFWy3yl+BC7WZvVFpUEbDjVFOzO0rn4I441Z2EocCrHL2Cl; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MIuoG-0000iZ-R0 for slug@nks.net; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:28:29 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3B224190883F for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:28:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A402FBB.1000607@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:28:27 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? References: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001401c9f36a$ed57b180$c8071480$@rr.com> <576C1F10-EF96-458A-AC18-EED0E95024F2@yahoo.com> <001101c9f39d$a480a880$ed81f980$@rr.com> In-Reply-To: <001101c9f39d$a480a880$ed81f980$@rr.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E; url=http://www.scottgrizzard.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/0x2496506E.asc X-Stationery: 0.4.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Identified-User: {:host126.hostmonster.com:scott+scottgrizzard.com:} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-02.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-3.524, required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL -1.06, BAYES_00 -2.60, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14) X-Spam-Status: No Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by slug-list-00.nks.net id n5N1TaaR004395 Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 How much data is the Javascript collecting, compared with other "web drawing" applications? You need what? a) x and y of point b) pen pressure c) id of previous point That would be the "bitmap" way of doing it, and that is "only double" the normal number of bytes. You could also do a vector: a) x and y of point b) pen pressure c) vector d) stroke length e) id of previous point (if continuous stroke) but I think, with delicate handwriting, the bitmap way is probably better. You have to collect the pen data, because that is how Handwriting recognition figures out the letters (and why, without the stroke information, it is so hard to do standard OCR on handwriting after the fact). - - Scott Ken Elliott wrote: > The number of vectors needed to represent handwriting is huge. It would > help to use something like NURBS to reduce the data size, but that requires > yet another transformation. If you use a raster "canvas", then you need to > map the mouse movements to the canvas. If the resolution of the canvas is > low, the data is smaller, but you have a loss of the small details. Using a > higher resolution canvas captures the details, but greatly increases the > data size. > > This is why such applications are usually run locally. You have all the > horsepower available to transform the handwriting into data. But Scott has > a set of goals that make this approach undesirable to him. > > Like I said - this could be difficult. But I understand the attraction of > the challenge. > > > Ken Elliott > ===================== > > -----Original Message----- > From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Setheck > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 6:17 PM > To: slug@nks.net > Subject: Re: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? > > I understand an input device sends a stream of information, but why > would you want the stream, instead, wouldn't you just want to use a > web drawing canvas type app? If you could do it with vector graphics > you would lose the problem with resolution. But that may open another > can of worms. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkpAL7oACgkQARR1QiSWUG4dCwCfYaQBsDitJC6SnnmfdmCUJ29J OXMAmwWuF5/RTp1vYdCLt6+OSkn6yYVO =Q/R2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 23 01:39:08 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5N5d700006985 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:39:07 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5N5d781006982 for slug-track29; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:39:07 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5N5d6DF006978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:39:07 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tm.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tm.nks.net [24.73.112.239]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5N5d3U3028638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:39:06 -0400 Received: from new.owlriver.com (new.owlriver.com [96.11.188.223]) by nks-ma-100-tm.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5N5aiZ7024730 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:36:44 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by new.owlriver.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n5N5agKJ026552 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:36:43 -0400 Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:36:42 -0400 (EDT) From: R P Herrold To: slug@nks.net Subject: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? In-Reply-To: <4A3FF4B6.3010701@scottgrizzard.com> Message-ID: References: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A3FCCEA.1050009@scottgrizzard.com> <4A3FF4B6.3010701@scottgrizzard.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LRH 1167 2008-08-23) X-M: Go Blue X-GnuPG-GPG-Key-ID: 0x9B649644 X-OpenPGP-Key-ID: 0x7BFB98B9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.2 (new.owlriver.com [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:36:43 -0400 (EDT) X-HELO: new.owlriver.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-9.899, required 6, autolearn=not spam, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, WGL_herrold_Pat_owlriver_Pdo_com -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net On Mon, 22 Jun 2009, Scott Grizzard wrote: > I like xournal, but will it "read" the writing so users can search it? > R P Herrold wrote: >> I have an application [Xournal, v 0.4.0.1] under Linux [CentOS 5] that >> captures mouse 'signings' and will emit a PDF (which can be re-coded >> into to TIFF for OCR purposes, programatically) -- here a Wacom pad, and >> a conventional PS/2 mouse. >> >> http://www.herrold.com/2009-06-22-Note-16-31.pdf >> >> I do not know that anything could 'read' what I intended ... it seemed >> quite combersome. Xournal does not have inbuilt OCR. I think I noted that a post process would be needed up front As to transcription errors, I think in the medical field (as I watch my doc), there is a limited range of 'bubble grid' DSM codes, etc, and that the software they run at their office does not try to solve the general, context-free OCR problem -- Russ herrold ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 23 01:49:43 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5N5nhFI008476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:49:43 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5N5nhlN008473 for slug-track29; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:49:43 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5N5nhkK008469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:49:43 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tg.nks.net [24.73.112.233]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5N5nhXu029953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:49:43 -0400 Received: from new.owlriver.com (new.owlriver.com [96.11.188.223]) by nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5N5mYoY014406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:48:34 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by new.owlriver.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n5N5mWmJ027697 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:48:33 -0400 Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:48:32 -0400 (EDT) From: R P Herrold To: slug@nks.net Subject: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? In-Reply-To: <4A401E64.1000608@verizon.net> Message-ID: References: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001401c9f36a$ed57b180$c8071480$@rr.com> <4A3FE874.3030504@scottgrizzard.com> <20090622214909.GG14822@quillandmouse.com> <4A401E64.1000608@verizon.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LRH 1167 2008-08-23) X-M: Go Blue X-GnuPG-GPG-Key-ID: 0x9B649644 X-OpenPGP-Key-ID: 0x7BFB98B9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.2 (new.owlriver.com [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:48:33 -0400 (EDT) X-HELO: new.owlriver.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-9.399, required 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_00 -2.60, NO_DNS_FOR_FROM 3.20, WGL_herrold_Pat_owlriver_Pdo_com -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net On Mon, 22 Jun 2009, Pete Theisen wrote: >> Wow, I just had a brilliant idea! Teach the doctors to *type*! ;-} > There are some jobs that doctors just won't do. and the workspaces they work in are not suited for it, and it breaks flow of listening to patients with all senses, and keyboards are germ magnets and very hard to clean sufficiently. .... -- Russ herrold ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 23 01:55:15 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5N5tFgZ009250 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:55:15 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5N5tFCK009247 for slug-track29; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:55:15 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5N5tEgN009243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:55:14 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tj.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tj.nks.net [24.73.112.236]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5N5tE1P030401 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:55:14 -0400 Received: from vms173001pub.verizon.net (vms173001pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.1]) by nks-ma-100-tj.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5N5sGMQ002090 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:54:17 -0400 Received: from news.home ([96.243.182.3]) by vms173001.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KLO004AHGEFXXB2@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 00:54:16 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:54:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Eben King X-X-Sender: eben@pc.home To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? In-reply-to: <4A3FF4B6.3010701@scottgrizzard.com> Message-id: References: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A3FCCEA.1050009@scottgrizzard.com> <4A3FF4B6.3010701@scottgrizzard.com> User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (DEB 882 2007-12-20) X-GetARealMailreader: I like xournal, but will it "read" the writing so users can search it? > > Handwriting recognition has always been one of those features that is > "five years off", but it is such a killer app for these doctors that > having it, even if the doctor had to go back and edit corrections later, > would be a game-changer for them. > > The big problem with all of these emr systems is it takes tasks that > doctors have been offloading to lesser-paid staff and makes the doctor > deal with them, making doctors less productive. If you could store > patient notes as ink, and then let a doctor's assistant go back through > them and correct an automated "initial rendering", you have gone a long > way towards making EMR systems "productivity enhancing" for doctors. AIYI handwriting recognition is much easier when the computer can get x-y-t information, rather than just x-y. Maybe the OP could restructure the workflow so the writing happens on a graphic (Wacom-style) tablet or something like that? That may give you pen pressure too, which might be useful. -- -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP http://royalty.mine.nu:81 "You're one of those condescending Unix computer users!" "Here's a nickel, kid. Get yourself a better computer" - Dilbert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Wed Jun 24 19:04:56 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5ON4uoe032335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:04:56 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5ON4uaP032332 for slug-track29; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:04:56 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5ON4u3o032328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:04:56 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-a.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-a.nks.net [24.73.112.79]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5ON4tEh019275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:04:56 -0400 Received: from vms173015pub.verizon.net (vms173015pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.15]) by nks-ma-100-a.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5OLMjpa008601 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:22:46 -0400 Received: from arthur.localnet ([71.122.113.201]) by vms173015.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KLR0068DI1T8HS5@vms173015.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 16:22:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Brandt To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:22:40 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.10.3 (Linux/2.6.27.23-0.1-default; KDE/4.1.3; x86_64; ; ) References: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001101c9f39d$a480a880$ed81f980$@rr.com> <4A402FBB.1000607@scottgrizzard.com> In-reply-to: <4A402FBB.1000607@scottgrizzard.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Message-id: <200906241722.40974.vzd1s11k@verizon.net> X-HELO: vms173015pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-7.844, required 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_50 0.00, FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS 2.15, WGL_vzd1s11k_Pat_verizon_Pdo_net -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Wouldn't it be much easier to do speech recognition software like Dragon Naturally speaking. Then the doctors can just dictate a file to the handheld and sent to the server. Just a thought. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 25 08:28:36 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5PCSZdx016082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:28:35 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5PCSZLo016079 for slug-track29; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:28:35 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5PCSZdL016075 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:28:35 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tj.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tj.nks.net [24.73.112.236]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5PCSYmD026504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:28:35 -0400 Received: from vms173015pub.verizon.net (vms173015pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.15]) by nks-ma-100-tj.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5PCEHFj012074 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:14:17 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173015.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KLS00D7CNB0GEP8@vms173015.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:13:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A436A5C.4040700@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:15:24 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? References: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001401c9f36a$ed57b180$c8071480$@rr.com> <4A3FE874.3030504@scottgrizzard.com> <20090622214909.GG14822@quillandmouse.com> <4A401E64.1000608@verizon.net> In-reply-to: Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173015pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-1.299, required 6, AWL -2.82, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_20 -0.74, BP_youhavewon 0.25, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net R P Herrold wrote: > On Mon, 22 Jun 2009, Pete Theisen wrote: > >>> Wow, I just had a brilliant idea! Teach the doctors to *type*! ;-} > >> There are some jobs that doctors just won't do. > > and the workspaces they work in are not suited for it, and it breaks > flow of listening to patients with all senses, and keyboards are germ > magnets and very hard to clean sufficiently. .... Hi Russ, If it is any help to you, I had a check list and the meanings of the possible answers plotted out in OpenOffice. I would interview the patient with a printout and then transcribe it afterwards into a report of findings, but I didn't mind typing - still don't. The same thing could be done with an electronic checkbox sort of thing, say with mouse or stylus. I always focused my practice on strengthening the immune system rather than trying to have a germ-free environment. Actually, the different germs counteract each other anyway. The anti-bacterial soap fad led to an increase in nasty fungus infections, the bacteria keep fungi in check. Kill bacteria and get fungus. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 25 14:17:38 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5PIHc01000504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:17:38 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5PIHcdj000501 for slug-track29; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:17:38 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5PIHbkR000486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:17:37 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tc.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tc.nks.net [24.73.112.229]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5PIHZL4020913 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:17:37 -0400 Received: from mail-yx0-f180.google.com (mail-yx0-f180.google.com [209.85.210.180]) by nks-ma-100-tc.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5PHddCZ028465 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:39:40 -0400 Received: by yxe10 with SMTP id 10so2737258yxe.7 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:39:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-enigmail-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=rtuiNUUS7MnU8BXz6XMNKr5QFNM+wH3lnIL0O6r5amY=; b=uejxZqLA+hAYORvKkd7t85UJaFaMi4Yp4l6prE59YMVZiaCbIyUzTzBL3Ad1bpPaYT NcJJk/32eb9LG9H+n9u2uBamRWo6qifDt9hXCLZSj9IZCbavp88gdk2VDd++rzq1ZFyP v2mJyTC8FKJm2yhqhoNoyHl1GwxkR81Bl9cH4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=w4DufGFT6rh4L+YN8bkrR9bWkg5GaJVJEDID6A0XDIAJygNnpzAIrI6cj9Ykxnb1ez i0Oo8DycpFyt64QcEnpd4AIHz2YB3KE43F+IAIon4ArxjphpAeY34ljDW5dRC3aLrJ6z QJwMdeJzLllzo9VVy0Ut5dn12K8nD4gBqcVh0= Received: by 10.90.115.13 with SMTP id n13mr2301362agc.16.1245951579165; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:39:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.2.200? (215-137.35-65.tampabay.res.rr.com [65.35.137.215]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 39sm4971720agb.53.2009.06.25.10.39.35 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:39:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4A43B669.1040201@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:39:53 -0400 From: Paul Bransford User-Agent: Mozilla-Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? References: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001401c9f36a$ed57b180$c8071480$@rr.com> <4A3FE874.3030504@scottgrizzard.com> <20090622214909.GG14822@quillandmouse.com> <4A401E64.1000608@verizon.net> <4A436A5C.4040700@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <4A436A5C.4040700@verizon.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HELO: mail-yx0-f180.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-3.499, required 6, AWL -3.75, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_youhavewon 0.25) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Pete Theisen wrote: > R P Herrold wrote: >> On Mon, 22 Jun 2009, Pete Theisen wrote: >> >>>> Wow, I just had a brilliant idea! Teach the doctors to *type*! ;-} >> >>> There are some jobs that doctors just won't do. >> >> and the workspaces they work in are not suited for it, and it breaks >> flow of listening to patients with all senses, and keyboards are germ >> magnets and very hard to clean sufficiently. .... > > Hi Russ, > > If it is any help to you, I had a check list and the meanings of the > possible answers plotted out in OpenOffice. I would interview the > patient with a printout and then transcribe it afterwards into a report > of findings, but I didn't mind typing - still don't. The same thing > could be done with an electronic checkbox sort of thing, say with mouse > or stylus. > > I always focused my practice on strengthening the immune system rather > than trying to have a germ-free environment. Actually, the different > germs counteract each other anyway. The anti-bacterial soap fad led to > an increase in nasty fungus infections, the bacteria keep fungi in > check. Kill bacteria and get fungus. While this is true, we are talking about a medical environment. All those little harmless things can lead to the death of a patient. After all, its not like it's normal life in there. You have people with compromised immune systems. Open wounds. The list goes on. You don't want to leave any of that to chance. Sure, you'll wash your hands before you do your work. But it's easy to keep a pen sterile than a keyboard, and having to rewash every time you need to type something in... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 25 15:42:33 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5PJgXTX012530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:42:33 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5PJgXXr012527 for slug-track29; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:42:33 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5PJgXAQ012523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:42:33 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-a.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-a.nks.net [24.73.112.79]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5PJgVBL027990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:42:33 -0400 Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com (hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com [71.74.56.123]) by nks-ma-100-a.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5PIYGF4003866 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:34:17 -0400 Received: from glaive ([97.106.103.29]) by hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090625183413790.WHCT18281@hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com> for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:34:16 +0000 Received: from leebc by glaive with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1MJtlz-0004Uk-KZ for slug@nks.net; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:34:11 -0400 Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:34:11 -0400 From: blee2@tampabay.rr.com To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? Message-ID: <20090625183411.GJ25474@glaive.dhs.org> References: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001401c9f36a$ed57b180$c8071480$@rr.com> <4A3FE874.3030504@scottgrizzard.com> <20090622214909.GG14822@quillandmouse.com> <4A401E64.1000608@verizon.net> <4A436A5C.4040700@verizon.net> <4A43B669.1040201@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4A43B669.1040201@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-HELO: hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com X-Mismatched-From: True X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.968, required 6, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, HELO_IS_SMALL6 0.56, NKS_MISMATCHED_FROM 0.25, NO_REAL_NAME 0.96) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Thus Paul Bransford hast written on Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 01:39:53PM -0400, and, according to prophecy, it shall come to pass that: > Sure, you'll wash your hands before you do your work. But it's easy to > keep a pen sterile than a keyboard, and having to rewash every time you > need to type something in... Just to explore possibilities here, what about flexible, washable keyboards and/or keyboard covers? MAybe soethgin that can be sprayed with 50% alcohol solution. Short of direct neural interfaces, I don't think anyone will ever come up with an I/O method for raw data entry that is more efficient (in terms of accuracy, correct interpretation, and speed) than a keyboard. The interfaces in "Star Trek The Next Generation" seem to be more efficient, but they're dealing with collected blocks of information, not composition like typing this email. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 25 15:57:32 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5PJvV1S014615 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:57:31 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5PJvVb1014612 for slug-track29; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:57:31 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5PJvVv0014608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:57:31 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tj.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tj.nks.net [24.73.112.236]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5PJvV5w029718 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:57:31 -0400 Received: from vms173015pub.verizon.net (vms173015pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.15]) by nks-ma-100-tj.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5PJW4Qc031779 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:32:04 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173015.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KLT00HM47L46174@vms173015.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:31:54 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A43D109.7060307@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:33:29 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? References: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001401c9f36a$ed57b180$c8071480$@rr.com> <4A3FE874.3030504@scottgrizzard.com> <20090622214909.GG14822@quillandmouse.com> <4A401E64.1000608@verizon.net> <4A436A5C.4040700@verizon.net> <4A43B669.1040201@gmail.com> In-reply-to: <4A43B669.1040201@gmail.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173015pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-0.459, required 6, AWL -2.72, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_youhavewon 0.25, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Paul Bransford wrote: > Pete Theisen wrote: >> R P Herrold wrote: >>> On Mon, 22 Jun 2009, Pete Theisen wrote: >>> >>>>> Wow, I just had a brilliant idea! Teach the doctors to *type*! ;-} >>>> There are some jobs that doctors just won't do. >>> and the workspaces they work in are not suited for it, and it breaks >>> flow of listening to patients with all senses, and keyboards are germ >>> magnets and very hard to clean sufficiently. .... >> If it is any help to you, I had a check list and the meanings of the >> possible answers plotted out in OpenOffice. I would interview the >> patient with a printout and then transcribe it afterwards into a report >> of findings, but I didn't mind typing - still don't. The same thing >> could be done with an electronic checkbox sort of thing, say with mouse >> or stylus. >> >> I always focused my practice on strengthening the immune system rather >> than trying to have a germ-free environment. Actually, the different >> germs counteract each other anyway. The anti-bacterial soap fad led to >> an increase in nasty fungus infections, the bacteria keep fungi in >> check. Kill bacteria and get fungus. > > While this is true, we are talking about a medical environment. > > All those little harmless things can lead to the death of a patient. > After all, its not like it's normal life in there. > > You have people with compromised immune systems. Open wounds. The list > goes on. > > You don't want to leave any of that to chance. > > Sure, you'll wash your hands before you do your work. But it's easy to > keep a pen sterile than a keyboard, and having to rewash every time you > need to type something in... Hi Paul, Nice theory. In reality the docs don't wash their hands very often when seeing patients, I'm not talking about prepping for surgery and procedures, just office visits where most of the interviewing and history taking is done. What you really have here is one of the objections docs offer to keep the EMR projects at bay until they retire. The check list software could work on a smartphone, but anything will be a "germ magnet" as you put it. The germophobes were always carping at us about our writing pens but heck, the whole room in a hospital or clinic is crawling with germs, and always will be. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 25 17:46:14 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5PLkEts029981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:46:14 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5PLkEuD029978 for slug-track29; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:46:14 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5PLkDXK029974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:46:14 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tb.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tb.nks.net [24.73.112.228]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5PLkDvK009674 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:46:13 -0400 Received: from new.owlriver.com (new.owlriver.com [96.11.188.223]) by nks-ma-100-tb.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5PKb6Vl002665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:37:07 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by new.owlriver.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n5PKb4ro025874 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:37:06 -0400 Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:37:04 -0400 (EDT) From: R P Herrold To: Slug List Subject: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? In-Reply-To: <4A436A5C.4040700@verizon.net> Message-ID: References: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001401c9f36a$ed57b180$c8071480$@rr.com> <4A3FE874.3030504@scottgrizzard.com> <20090622214909.GG14822@quillandmouse.com> <4A401E64.1000608@verizon.net> <4A436A5C.4040700@verizon.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LRH 1167 2008-08-23) X-M: Go Blue X-GnuPG-GPG-Key-ID: 0x9B649644 X-OpenPGP-Key-ID: 0x7BFB98B9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.2 (new.owlriver.com [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:37:06 -0400 (EDT) X-HELO: new.owlriver.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-11.555, required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL 0.80, BAYES_00 -2.60, BP_youhavewon 0.25, WGL_herrold_Pat_owlriver_Pdo_com -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net On Thu, 25 Jun 2009, Pete Theisen wrote: >> herrold: >> of listening to patients with all senses, and keyboards are >> germ magnets and very hard to clean sufficiently. .... > If it is any help to you, I had a check list and the > meanings of the possible answers plotted out in OpenOffice. Some in the medical profession argue for 'active listening' to the patient, to 'hear' more. See the books Complications: A Surgeon's Notes on an Imperfect Science; and Better: A Surgeon's Notes on Performance, by Atul Gawand; and How Doctors Think by Jerome Groopman. All recommended. > I always focused my practice on strengthening the immune > system rather than trying to have a germ-free environment. > Actually, the different germs counteract each other anyway. > The anti-bacterial soap fad led to an increase in nasty > fungus infections, the bacteria keep fungi in check. Kill > bacteria and get fungus. Anecdotes are all well and good for the parlor, but are not science. I infer you follow a medical approach I would choose to use nor submit one I loved to. The local hospitals have meningitis, 'golden' staph, along with the necrotic MISA bacteria clusters, at the moment. During a confinement oa a loved one for a week last year, staff and doctors went to and from patients, restroom, and keyboard without regloving, and without any effort at sanitation, despite repeated complaint by attending family. We won't be using that hospital any more. Still the patient's choice, for the moment. -- Russ herrold ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 25 18:13:27 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5PMDQgi001354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:13:27 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5PMDQFq001351 for slug-track29; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:13:26 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5PMDQhr001347 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:13:26 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sb.nks.net [24.73.112.205]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5PMDP8F013319 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:13:26 -0400 Received: from vms173003pub.verizon.net (vms173003pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.3]) by nks-ma-100-sb.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5PKYPjB002734 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:34:26 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173003.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KLT00HAAAH7UDW9@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:34:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A43DFAC.3070103@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:35:56 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? References: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001401c9f36a$ed57b180$c8071480$@rr.com> <4A3FE874.3030504@scottgrizzard.com> <20090622214909.GG14822@quillandmouse.com> <4A401E64.1000608@verizon.net> <4A436A5C.4040700@verizon.net> <4A43B669.1040201@gmail.com> <20090625183411.GJ25474@glaive.dhs.org> In-reply-to: <20090625183411.GJ25474@glaive.dhs.org> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173003pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.44, required 6, AWL -0.38, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_40 -0.18, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net blee2@tampabay.rr.com wrote: > Thus Paul Bransford hast written on Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 01:39:53PM -0400, and, according to prophecy, it shall come to pass that: >> Sure, you'll wash your hands before you do your work. But it's easy to >> keep a pen sterile than a keyboard, and having to rewash every time you >> need to type something in... > > Just to explore possibilities here, what about flexible, washable > keyboards and/or keyboard covers? MAybe soethgin that can be sprayed > with 50% alcohol solution. Hi Blee, Well, "soethgin" is a new one on me, but if it is 50% alcohol maybe the germs will be too tipsy to cause much trouble. Really don't use alcohol that much for disinfecting, there are better things. Now if you had a keyboard cover fresh for each patient, maybe that would be clean. It will never be sterile. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 25 21:55:35 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5Q1tZbQ032629 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:55:35 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5Q1tZjl032626 for slug-track29; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:55:35 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5Q1tY0W032622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:55:34 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tc.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tc.nks.net [24.73.112.229]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5Q1tXfv003337 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:55:34 -0400 Received: from mail-bw0-f214.google.com (mail-bw0-f214.google.com [209.85.218.214]) by nks-ma-100-tc.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5Q1EEKV010654 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:14:14 -0400 Received: by bwz10 with SMTP id 10so495379bwz.13 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:14:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=qNza6XAy3pNJC0rrJbKG7zYHjdS0ASq6XaWsXDesQOM=; b=MdmeFLbO/YRhQbfeOhLWkRRu45WZqaD0cO/2r3d/vNReZojG1pHgGexcRz9gsNbfJx JkdpS7i7v4BaT1NW6RMkOjeKC3cTm7Pyzl9ctDXmTLwLF99XyFr0y735HSIhWkbDpzWf O4LtvCaY0FskfZein+4yw4LRmrY196UTES+K8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=DtnYzqc7pQ3xVDDFbXcEMoOjmYjXad4A7DR9FAThd3pfoG0R7aI955mzNEe7jLrmNs Smb7r6/eTNLxwKPMkSFYGMKAFC/iaCMdZDbpIY/a/xwFOdcyLOEY5fM/SwNrnV5pOfxn 3ziOJByFzaUFs0xsfalhgk9Cbls8lBJE3VGmk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.117.20 with SMTP id o20mr922286bkq.1.1245978853177; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:14:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:14:13 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: [SLUG] replacement for MS Project From: William Coulter To: slug@nks.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5a521f0fa6a046d360e0d X-HELO: mail-bw0-f214.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-1.746, required 6, AWL -4.81, BAYES_50 0.00, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71, HTML_10_20 1.35, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net --001636c5a521f0fa6a046d360e0d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A friend asked me the other day if there was something that was open source that would replace MS Projects. I have no idea what MS Projects is or what it does. William -- Every bill here on out should have the approximate number of jobs it is going to create and then every year or two have an audit of the actual number of jobs created. Build here, build now...Buy American made. --001636c5a521f0fa6a046d360e0d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A friend asked me the other day if there was something that was open source= that would replace MS Projects.=A0 I have no idea what MS Projects is or w= hat it does.

William

--
Every bill here on = out should have the approximate number of jobs it is going to create and th= en every year or two have an audit of the actual number of jobs created.
Build here, build now...Buy American made.

--001636c5a521f0fa6a046d360e0d-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Thu Jun 25 22:15:40 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5Q2FePr003045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:15:40 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5Q2FeFR003042 for slug-track29; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:15:40 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5Q2FdTT003038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:15:39 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-so.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-so.nks.net [24.73.112.218]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5Q2Fdti005038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:15:39 -0400 Received: from mail-qy0-f182.google.com (mail-qy0-f182.google.com [209.85.221.182]) by nks-ma-100-so.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5Q2Dgcv027734 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:13:43 -0400 Received: by qyk12 with SMTP id 12so801586qyk.7 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:13:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=FJHlesBS3EMzw16mw459ir9zzMCQ7XdAaDzbtZT9q+8=; b=clx4nyV6Eh6Y+RwCr+Bn529L6C4X63XuOCYX+W52FrcePJ82cH6E7Oj5q9nuUkROj6 GENqiLOHJzaKxiF/VyIp4cohBTTHv62lSGCNaVGZSTj1RAq0qOS+nLWlgEAJgMaD7bQw 21SmNt9WMjJ57vr7il0TiJf3UGKobm3CzFYSc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=WokY2VrkZlBbL53nDJnZo6yXiz2mAvx+t923HzV9K1fcPId8ZbXfTZ4n31oDXn/x+E avyS44cuukKGxujGm6xZPYd00D8x/VVYYOC5PLi2nDlaOAHsWlWrMN2xd1U9SMa8BTkr XNLTGSHk5sfF0jcyMdfRBxgOLWg1rUH+AHJAY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.72.194 with SMTP id n2mr2828488vcj.52.1245982422467; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:13:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:13:42 -0500 Message-ID: <703ba7320906251913u1d08481ek7f983d3f44e0dd2d@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [SLUG] replacement for MS Project From: Robert Waldo To: slug@nks.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364edd44b00643046d36e3fc X-HELO: mail-qy0-f182.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=1.126, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAD_STRING_gmail_PUNCdot_com 0.65, BAYES_50 0.00, HTML_30_40 0.37, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00) X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamScore: s X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net --0016364edd44b00643046d36e3fc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MS Project is a project management software to track progress and milestone= s for various 'projects". The Linux equivalent is OpenProj or TaskJuggler. I'm sure there are more. Robert Waldo On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 8:14 PM, William Coulter wro= te: > A friend asked me the other day if there was something that was open sour= ce > that would replace MS Projects. I have no idea what MS Projects is or wh= at > it does. > > William > > -- > Every bill here on out should have the approximate number of jobs it is > going to create and then every year or two have an audit of the actual > number of jobs created. > > Build here, build now...Buy American made. > > --=20 If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Milton Friedman=EF=BB=BF --0016364edd44b00643046d36e3fc Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MS Project is a project management software to track progress and milestone= s for various 'projects".=C2=A0 The Linux equivalent is OpenProj o= r TaskJuggler.=C2=A0 I'm sure there are more.

Robert Waldo
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 8:14 PM, William Coulter <wrcoulter33@gmail.com> w= rote:
A friend asked me the other day if there was something that was open source= that would replace MS Projects.=C2=A0 I have no idea what MS Projects is o= r what it does.

William
--
Every bill here on out should have the approximate number of jobs it is goi= ng to create and then every year or two have an audit of the actual number = of jobs created.

Build here, build now...Buy American made.




--
If you put the f= ederal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years there'd= be a shortage of sand.
- Milton Friedman=EF=BB=BF
--0016364edd44b00643046d36e3fc-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Fri Jun 26 01:53:03 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5Q5r3nK001124 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 01:53:03 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5Q5r3Bv001121 for slug-track29; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 01:53:03 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5Q5r26j001112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 01:53:02 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tj.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tj.nks.net [24.73.112.236]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5Q5r0sj025641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 01:53:02 -0400 Received: from vms173011pub.verizon.net (vms173011pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.11]) by nks-ma-100-tj.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5Q5nQ4E026724 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 01:49:27 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([71.101.115.85]) by vms173011.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KLU005OH04JR36D@vms173011.mailsrvcs.net> for slug@nks.net; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 00:48:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <4A446186.1040601@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 01:49:58 -0400 From: Pete Theisen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? References: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001401c9f36a$ed57b180$c8071480$@rr.com> <4A3FE874.3030504@scottgrizzard.com> <20090622214909.GG14822@quillandmouse.com> <4A401E64.1000608@verizon.net> <4A436A5C.4040700@verizon.net> In-reply-to: Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-HELO: vms173011pub.verizon.net X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-0.289, required 6, AWL -2.11, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_40 -0.18, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net R P Herrold wrote: > On Thu, 25 Jun 2009, Pete Theisen wrote: > During a confinement oa a loved one for a week last year, staff and > doctors went to and from patients, restroom, and keyboard without > regloving, and without any effort at sanitation, despite repeated > complaint by attending family. We won't be using that hospital any more. Hi Russ, Hospitals have much worse sanitation issues than private clinics have. I think they need different software/hardware solutions as well. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Fri Jun 26 04:01:32 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5Q81WWb019251 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 04:01:32 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5Q81WTu019248 for slug-track29; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 04:01:32 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5Q81Wxr019244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 04:01:32 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-i.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-i.nks.net [24.73.112.87]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5Q81VeY009418 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 04:01:32 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-01.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-01.bluehost.com [69.89.21.11]) by nks-ma-100-i.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5Q7dJtN014643 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 03:39:19 -0400 Received: (qmail 9769 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jun 2009 07:39:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2009 07:39:18 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=nXEQdIMohtqfyt7TZa8znDdIxQCsDiBKCrNy6jBeMkmyjqCymc3OlxZpVRw6V7574JaCd5TT52JKBGKexpPmUe3sRNb/brI2bF3vSfTnRYKxiWCxXlevflvyRfRINhdC; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MK61m-00041s-Ox for slug@nks.net; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 01:39:18 -0600 Received: from scott-grizzards-macbook-pro-15.local (unknown [192.168.1.100]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 61985190883F for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 03:39:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A447B25.4030505@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 03:39:17 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (Macintosh/20090605) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Open Source handwriting recognition application? References: <579945.60629.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001401c9f36a$ed57b180$c8071480$@rr.com> <4A3FE874.3030504@scottgrizzard.com> <20090622214909.GG14822@quillandmouse.com> <4A401E64.1000608@verizon.net> <4A436A5C.4040700@verizon.net> <4A446186.1040601@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <4A446186.1040601@verizon.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E X-Stationery: 0.4.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {2187:host126.hostmonster.com:scottgri:scottgrizzard.com} {sentby:smtp auth 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-01.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-3.968, required 6, AWL -2.31, BAYES_00 -2.60, BP_youhavewon 0.25, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, HELO_MISMATCH_COM 0.55) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Don't they make those "wet keyboards" that you can spill stuff on and wash? Pete Theisen wrote: > R P Herrold wrote: >> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009, Pete Theisen wrote: > >> During a confinement oa a loved one for a week last year, staff and >> doctors went to and from patients, restroom, and keyboard without >> regloving, and without any effort at sanitation, despite repeated >> complaint by attending family. We won't be using that hospital any more. > > Hi Russ, > > Hospitals have much worse sanitation issues than private clinics have. I > think they need different software/hardware solutions as well. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.11 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkpEeyQACgkQARR1QiSWUG5wIwCfcKAizD2hrK9cI+LHME3LrPxv /y0An2vY68VbuN0CY015uUbSYiU2A+15 =GBhh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Fri Jun 26 17:27:26 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5QLRQJF002955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:27:26 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5QLRQOe002952 for slug-track29; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:27:26 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5QLRQT9002948 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:27:26 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tb.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tb.nks.net [24.73.112.228]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5QLRPGG021576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:27:26 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail-320.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-320.bluehost.com [67.222.54.252]) by nks-ma-100-tb.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with SMTP id n5QJ86vm017480 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 15:08:07 -0400 Received: (qmail 13203 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jun 2009 19:08:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host126.hostmonster.com) (74.220.207.126) by outboundproxy6.bluehost.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2009 19:08:06 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=scottgrizzard.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:OpenPGP:X-Stationery:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=DdQEiIYBi0rHzdpcCuInxWQlIToKTqWVzZ/5mnrF1luWwsT8DuryrxW0Tl4BPH4KTU4AklnE4XFgSZ8Rka4MSvyylXhTmPcGjEU8zZpiiJo0bbBbiJ0yzV4VhxY49jXA; Received: from 212-168.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com ([70.127.168.212] helo=scottserver.scottgrizzard.com) by host126.hostmonster.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MKGmL-0005V1-Ss for slug@nks.net; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:08:05 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.196] (unknown [192.168.1.196]) by scottserver.scottgrizzard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2BCC0190883F for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 15:08:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A451C94.8020402@scottgrizzard.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 15:08:04 -0400 From: Scott Grizzard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] replacement for MS Project References: <703ba7320906251913u1d08481ek7f983d3f44e0dd2d@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <703ba7320906251913u1d08481ek7f983d3f44e0dd2d@mail.gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=2496506E; url=http://www.scottgrizzard.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/0x2496506E.asc X-Stationery: 0.4.9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Identified-User: {2187:host126.hostmonster.com:scottgri:scottgrizzard.com} {sentby:smtp auth 70.127.168.212 authed with scott+scottgrizzard.com} X-HELO: outbound-mail-320.bluehost.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.005, required 6, AWL 0.23, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAD_STRING_gmail_PUNCdot_com 0.65, BAYES_05 -1.11, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14) X-Spam-Status: No Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by slug-list-00.nks.net id n5QLRQT8002949 Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 KPlato in KOffice also does this, but it only works in Linux for right now. - - Scott Robert Waldo wrote: > MS Project is a project management software to track progress and > milestones for various 'projects". The Linux equivalent is OpenProj or > TaskJuggler. I'm sure there are more. > > Robert Waldo > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 8:14 PM, William Coulter > wrote: > > A friend asked me the other day if there was something that was open > source that would replace MS Projects. I have no idea what MS > Projects is or what it does. > > William > > -- > Every bill here on out should have the approximate number of jobs it > is going to create and then every year or two have an audit of the > actual number of jobs created. > > Build here, build now...Buy American made. > > > > > -- > If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in > five years there'd be a shortage of sand. > - Milton Friedman -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkpFHJMACgkQARR1QiSWUG4GJACfQcDjcuj9mooHfHRfhcSNpke2 00wAn0jbXQrgd4PoBO9cMEnvjOBulDB9 =/qbo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Fri Jun 26 18:28:53 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5QMSr0h011637 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:28:53 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5QMSr7M011634 for slug-track29; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:28:53 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5QMSr17011630 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:28:53 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-tg.nks.net [24.73.112.233]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5QMSkU7028888 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:28:53 -0400 Received: from mail-bw0-f214.google.com (mail-bw0-f214.google.com [209.85.218.214]) by nks-ma-100-tg.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5QLwtlS006646 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:58:56 -0400 Received: by bwz10 with SMTP id 10so1084509bwz.13 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:58:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=QGc3+OmvY6DnOE0HcYcziOzsmiRG+Hpt2iBhFrg9rtY=; b=R/O3ttkOa1EA3CUarBCDUroZiZEiax9vJFyxybYw6HWyMrG+s+qmZcPn1GPqqa+fi+ sFAG6BAWpBblt3e3gdlsyo71V5uNpp2TVVN69fqz0KE58mLQWKDuposteggsyJUKLbp6 IgkwckEqMcDt5+hvLEqaS7nChjfu9uzk4XOs0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=Qe0hNoVRsJNckdl7Cag/2deh3EztknMywF0QbanSf5CTmcpc6ioJT84mZ4EXnHIC9Q RgS1d+R2AVcbCMc3TPy79guljxkjnileeIxKhgoexWEs4wYqb3JuBCmxip1RtTPzgtdq ItUBYbxVjQETNEWmHZk0TEisd4MOfzlbwm7+w= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.118.12 with SMTP id t12mr4107085bkq.158.1246053534632; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:58:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <703ba7320906251913u1d08481ek7f983d3f44e0dd2d@mail.gmail.com> References: <703ba7320906251913u1d08481ek7f983d3f44e0dd2d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:58:54 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [SLUG] replacement for MS Project From: William Coulter To: slug@nks.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c598604dfae3046d4772b1 X-HELO: mail-bw0-f214.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-3.852, required 6, AWL -5.10, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAD_STRING_gmail_PUNCdot_com 0.65, BAYES_50 0.00, HTML_40_50 0.50, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net --001636c598604dfae3046d4772b1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, I will take a look at them. William On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 10:13 PM, Robert Waldo wrote: > MS Project is a project management software to track progress and > milestones for various 'projects". The Linux equivalent is OpenProj or > TaskJuggler. I'm sure there are more. > > Robert Waldo > > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 8:14 PM, William Coulter w= rote: > >> A friend asked me the other day if there was something that was open >> source that would replace MS Projects. I have no idea what MS Projects = is >> or what it does. >> >> William >> >> -- >> Every bill here on out should have the approximate number of jobs it is >> going to create and then every year or two have an audit of the actual >> number of jobs created. >> >> Build here, build now...Buy American made. >> >> > > > -- > If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five > years there'd be a shortage of sand. > - Milton Friedman=EF=BB=BF > --=20 Every bill here on out should have the approximate number of jobs it is going to create and then every year or two have an audit of the actual number of jobs created. Build here, build now...Buy American made. --001636c598604dfae3046d4772b1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, I will take a look at them.
William

On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 10:13 PM, Robert Waldo <= rjw6844@gmail.com> wrote= :
MS Project is a p= roject management software to track progress and milestones for various = 9;projects".=C2=A0 The Linux equivalent is OpenProj or TaskJuggler.=C2= =A0 I'm sure there are more.

Robert Waldo


On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 8:14 PM, William Coulter <wrcoulter33@gmail.co= m> wrote:
A friend asked me the other day if there was something that was open source= that would replace MS Projects.=C2=A0 I have no idea what MS Projects is o= r what it does.

William
--
Every bill here on out should have the approximate number of jobs it is goi= ng to create and then every year or two have an audit of the actual number = of jobs created.

Build here, build now...Buy American made.




--
If you put the federal government in charge of the Saha= ra Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand.
- Milton Fri= edman=EF=BB=BF



--
Every bill here = on out should have the approximate number of jobs it is going to create and= then every year or two have an audit of the actual number of jobs created.=

Build here, build now...Buy American made.

--001636c598604dfae3046d4772b1-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Fri Jun 26 19:02:52 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5QN2qfU016479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:02:52 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5QN2qOX016476 for slug-track29; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:02:52 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5QN2qjX016461 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:02:52 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-za.lvs.nks.net (nks-ma-100-za.nks.net [24.73.115.97]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5QN2oOc000440 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:02:51 -0400 Received: from mail-yx0-f190.google.com (mail-yx0-f190.google.com [209.85.210.190]) by nks-ma-100-za.lvs.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5QLWhLa024015 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:32:43 -0400 Received: by yxe28 with SMTP id 28so4213750yxe.1 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:32:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-enigmail-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=AwYWSQkFXhoz+w2alvbD2Sba685LDAW4w6N95DHN2Bs=; b=uBsVOCENyzP9H/c0CUQ7wpteA3NCPyt424+UkLFgZiReaMM0OX/BPGq5cuRbc+jF3E YAtUGDzRXmWLaN2Kwl9zF6rpYfViRGe/16ZyaZZsMCr0Lzlc7rB2dUAxZYN6aLoECkmZ JB9g2ioCepderKrh+8qwaRGnJBvT3LcJmtHpk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=Kkwba/y5BQNwLoW1PZyDOtrjZ7YjfvIJnwnn7SMhJDdtnTCWQeFbaXHJZpPOeow6ng xi9Bmw9VrYbeZqKcr901uH32CP2kC42CHNhJyixepGNFBtIYzhJqY3znIqwaGlXHkV2e uZqFhevO/cwhYIlXsO1o5SlxeJOWoZF9XOXrs= Received: by 10.90.86.9 with SMTP id j9mr3488740agb.46.1246051958420; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:32:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.2.200? (215-137.35-65.tampabay.res.rr.com [65.35.137.215]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 2sm541724aga.18.2009.06.26.14.32.37 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:32:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4A453E89.1090108@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:32:57 -0400 From: Paul Bransford User-Agent: Mozilla-Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] replacement for MS Project References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HELO: mail-yx0-f190.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-0.74, required 6, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_20 -0.74) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net William Coulter wrote: > A friend asked me the other day if there was something that was open > source that would replace MS Projects. I have no idea what MS Projects > is or what it does. > > William > > -- > Every bill here on out should have the approximate number of jobs it is > going to create and then every year or two have an audit of the actual > number of jobs created. > > Build here, build now...Buy American made. > This should get you started: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_project_management_software ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Sun Jun 28 15:44:33 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5SJiXCn005157 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:44:33 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5SJiXrK005143 for slug-track29; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:44:33 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5SJiWJU005132 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:44:32 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-za.lvs.nks.net (nks-ma-100-za.nks.net [24.73.115.97]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5SJiUxc012348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:44:31 -0400 Received: from haylee.gendns10.com (haylee.gendns10.com [216.180.234.5]) by nks-ma-100-za.lvs.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5SJc0Da006731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:38:02 -0400 Received: from pool-71-98-170-231.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.98.170.231]:50156 helo=sherman.mars.lan) by haylee.gendns10.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ML0CN-0006Cl-RD; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:37:59 -0400 Received: by sherman.mars.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7117F56A58; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:37:57 -0400 (EDT) To: slug@nks.net, slug-announce@nks.net, cola@stump.algebra.com Subject: [SLUG] Suncoast LUG Meetings Message-Id: <20090628193757.7117F56A58@sherman.mars.lan> Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:37:57 -0400 (EDT) From: paulf@quillandmouse.com (Paul M Foster) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - haylee.gendns10.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - nks.net X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - quillandmouse.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-HELO: haylee.gendns10.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-8.473, required 6, autolearn=not spam, AWL 1.39, BAYES_50 0.00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, WGL_paulf_Pat_quillandmouse_Pdo_com -10.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net ************************************* * Suncoast Linux Users Group (SLUG) * * Meeting Schedule * ************************************* TAMPA **************************************************** 14 July 19:00-21:00 Tampa (Usually Tuesday, usually first half of month) Hillsborough Community College Dale Mabry Campus Technology Bldg, Rm 426 4001 Tampa Bay Blvd Tampa, FL See http://www.hccfl.edu/pollock/Docs/DM-Map.htm for directions. *********************************************************** ACTIVITIES: Meetings may include: 1) Presentation: As indicated. 2) Question & Answer Session. 3) Raffle and free stuff! Bring your boxes, questions, problems, and plenty of good cheer! (And don't forget to start your installs early!) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 29 12:42:55 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5TGgt9P019797 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:42:55 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5TGgtLw019794 for slug-track29; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:42:55 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5TGgsfc019790 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:42:54 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sp.nks.net [24.73.112.219]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5TGgsbs030372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:42:54 -0400 Received: from mail.r-stream.com (mail.r-stream.com [69.64.160.121] (may be forged)) by nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5TFmNx5021821 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:48:24 -0400 Received: by mail.r-stream.com (Postfix, from userid 109) id 7A98B7FEF; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:49:33 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7-deb3 (2006-10-05) on rsweb2.r-stream.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7-deb3, No Received: from [192.168.1.127] (rrcs-67-78-3-246.se.biz.rr.com [67.78.3.246]) by mail.r-stream.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 652D77FD2 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:49:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4A48E271.7020409@christianbrink.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:49:05 -0400 From: Christian Brink User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] replacement for MS Project References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HELO: mail.r-stream.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.551, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_50 0.00, BP_THISISNOTABILL 0.45) Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net William Coulter wrote: > A friend asked me the other day if there was something that was open > source that would replace MS Projects. I have no idea what MS > Projects is or what it does. > I've done a lot of research on this and used various products, and right now I run M$ Project in VirtualBox. The main issues are resource leveling, earned value analysis and other nice tools. The products I tested/used were. Gnome Tracker( formally MR Project ), TaskJuggler, KPlato, and OpenProj. The closest in functionality is TaskJuggler. It does resource leveling. It is text based entry which I suppose would turn people off. I used it for 6 months before going back to M$ Project. I stopped using it mainly because it is missing the ability to do a couple standard tracking reports. Don't get me wrong it's good, it does a lot, and it's flexible. But it does not have a few key features that, if you are used to M$ Proj, I would think you would find it lacking. As for OpenProj(community) and Gnome Tracker they don't have resource leveling and that is basically a no-go for any project manager. The most recent beta of KPlato has resource leveling but overall it is a little buggy. It does not have some features that M$ Proj has, and it does have some usability issues but it does have a workable GUI. > William > > -- > Every bill here on out should have the approximate number of jobs it > is going to create and then every year or two have an audit of the > actual number of jobs created. > > Build here, build now...Buy American made. > -- Christian Brink cbrink@christianbrink.com http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=133383 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Mon Jun 29 23:03:57 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5U33uD6009708 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:03:57 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5U33u6P009705 for slug-track29; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:03:56 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5U33uPj009701 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:03:56 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sp.nks.net [24.73.112.219]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5U33sPH008696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:03:56 -0400 Received: from mail-fx0-f225.google.com (mail-fx0-f225.google.com [209.85.220.225]) by nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5U2FNX0001385 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:15:23 -0400 Received: by fxm25 with SMTP id 25so1604737fxm.13 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:15:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=+Js/YkQ831I+HH5SPNOzatzLzO1M10Ud1bfQ8N73bWE=; b=ezxGctvbwMMQGTmKGFkgqk8LE8LzGxfd+aCnrbjxmq3g9EA6mDcoAtJaZbiiP0ASDE nQQwORPJYUSQZNYwkRrwUxOB439sbFvrGnIZSxq7cJrkTtZAsMvwpUYicrIflP7ARsPg rQObWL3pURjTDMiPKZd+9uaqGevpw0Vne2Ki0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=cgNW40FRNszQfg7lqrJjxshl3qjyPGdRYblf+ha15X068jwQs9Znip2Pp2tQktQ+Bv zC/xo/i27mQ1e+Y2dAzi4bw5IUdiOZUtWctZhCyLXeHqcBOpM6213rdKBnBrV2wr/I/m YChWIF0dbFRNvBw6mcAv4NG7AUedgj9AmggQ4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.55.140 with SMTP id u12mr7740917bkg.127.1246328122312; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:15:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4A48E271.7020409@christianbrink.com> References: <4A48E271.7020409@christianbrink.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:15:22 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [SLUG] replacement for MS Project From: William Coulter To: slug@nks.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c924d90108b8046d87615f X-HELO: mail-fx0-f225.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-2.048, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_00 -2.60, BP_THISISNOTABILL 0.45, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net --001636c924d90108b8046d87615f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christian, Thanks for the personal info. I may do the same thing. Have you tried using Project in Wine? William On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Christian Brink wrote: > William Coulter wrote: > > A friend asked me the other day if there was something that was open > > source that would replace MS Projects. I have no idea what MS > > Projects is or what it does. > > > > I've done a lot of research on this and used various products, and right > now I run M$ Project in VirtualBox. > > The main issues are resource leveling, earned value analysis and other > nice tools. > > The products I tested/used were. Gnome Tracker( formally MR Project ), > TaskJuggler, KPlato, and OpenProj. > > The closest in functionality is TaskJuggler. It does resource leveling. > It is text based entry which I suppose would turn people off. I used it > for 6 months before going back to M$ Project. I stopped using it mainly > because it is missing the ability to do a couple standard tracking > reports. Don't get me wrong it's good, it does a lot, and it's flexible. > But it does not have a few key features that, if you are used to M$ > Proj, I would think you would find it lacking. > > As for OpenProj(community) and Gnome Tracker they don't have resource > leveling and that is basically a no-go for any project manager. > > The most recent beta of KPlato has resource leveling but overall it is a > little buggy. It does not have some features that M$ Proj has, and it > does have some usability issues but it does have a workable GUI. > > > > > William > > > > -- > > Every bill here on out should have the approximate number of jobs it > > is going to create and then every year or two have an audit of the > > actual number of jobs created. > > > > Build here, build now...Buy American made. > > > > > -- > Christian Brink > cbrink@christianbrink.com > http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=133383 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > -- Every bill here on out should have the approximate number of jobs it is going to create and then every year or two have an audit of the actual number of jobs created. Build here, build now...Buy American made. --001636c924d90108b8046d87615f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Christian,
Thanks for the personal info.=A0 I may do the same thing.=A0 = Have you tried using Project in Wine?

William

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Christian Brink <cbrink@christianbrink= .com> wrote:
William Coulter wrote:
> A friend asked me the other day if there was something that was open > source that would replace MS Projects. =A0I have no idea what MS
> Projects is or what it does.
>

I've done a lot of research on this and used various products, an= d right
now I run M$ Project in VirtualBox.

The main issues are resource leveling, earned value analysis and other
nice tools.

The products I tested/used were. Gnome Tracker( formally MR Project ),
TaskJuggler, KPlato, and OpenProj.

The closest in functionality is TaskJuggler. It does resource leveling.
It is text based entry which I suppose would turn people off. I used it
for 6 months before going back to M$ Project. I stopped using it mainly
because it is missing the ability to do a couple standard tracking
reports. Don't get me wrong it's good, it does a lot, and it's = flexible.
But it does not have a few key features that, if you are used to M$
Proj, I would think you would find it lacking.

As for OpenProj(community) and Gnome Tracker they don't have resource leveling and that is basically a no-go for any project manager.

The most recent beta of KPlato has resource leveling but overall it is a little buggy. It does not have some features that M$ Proj has, and it
does have some usability issues but it does have a workable GUI.



> William
>
> --
> Every bill here on out should have the approximate number of jobs it > is going to create and then every year or two have an audit of the
> actual number of jobs created.
>
> Build here, build now...Buy American made.
>


--
Christian Brink
cbrink@christianbrink.com<= br> http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=3D133383

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked
Knowledge Systems (NKS). =A0Views and opinions expressed in messages
posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the
official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees.



--
Every bill = here on out should have the approximate number of jobs it is going to creat= e and then every year or two have an audit of the actual number of jobs cre= ated.

Build here, build now...Buy American made.

--001636c924d90108b8046d87615f-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 30 12:50:13 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5UGoD4q028709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:50:13 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5UGoDAF028706 for slug-track29; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:50:13 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5UGoDqx028702 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:50:13 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-za.lvs.nks.net (nks-ma-100-za.nks.net [24.73.115.97]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5UGoBfL010363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:50:13 -0400 Received: from mail.r-stream.com (mail.r-stream.com [69.64.160.121] (may be forged)) by nks-ma-100-za.lvs.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5UDVgPv008483 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:31:42 -0400 Received: by mail.r-stream.com (Postfix, from userid 109) id 5116C7FFE; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 08:27:50 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7-deb3 (2006-10-05) on rsweb2.r-stream.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7-deb3, No Received: from [192.168.1.127] (rrcs-67-78-3-246.se.biz.rr.com [67.78.3.246]) by mail.r-stream.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA0B37FF2 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 08:27:45 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4A4A13F3.7010508@christianbrink.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:32:35 -0400 From: Christian Brink User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] replacement for MS Project References: <4A48E271.7020409@christianbrink.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HELO: mail.r-stream.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.365, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_40 -0.18, BP_THISISNOTABILL 0.45) Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net William Coulter wrote: > Christian, > Thanks for the personal info. I may do the same thing. Have you > tried using Project in Wine? Yes, I tried :) It didn't work too well. But using VirtualBox (on a machine with dual core and a decent amount of RAM) has made it fairly seamless. > > William > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Christian Brink > > wrote: > > William Coulter wrote: > > A friend asked me the other day if there was something that was open > > source that would replace MS Projects. I have no idea what MS > > Projects is or what it does. > > > > I've done a lot of research on this and used various products, and > right > now I run M$ Project in VirtualBox. > > The main issues are resource leveling, earned value analysis and other > nice tools. > > The products I tested/used were. Gnome Tracker( formally MR Project ), > TaskJuggler, KPlato, and OpenProj. > > The closest in functionality is TaskJuggler. It does resource > leveling. > It is text based entry which I suppose would turn people off. I > used it > for 6 months before going back to M$ Project. I stopped using it > mainly > because it is missing the ability to do a couple standard tracking > reports. Don't get me wrong it's good, it does a lot, and it's > flexible. > But it does not have a few key features that, if you are used to M$ > Proj, I would think you would find it lacking. > > As for OpenProj(community) and Gnome Tracker they don't have resource > leveling and that is basically a no-go for any project manager. > > The most recent beta of KPlato has resource leveling but overall > it is a > little buggy. It does not have some features that M$ Proj has, and it > does have some usability issues but it does have a workable GUI. > > > > > William > > > > -- > > Every bill here on out should have the approximate number of jobs it > > is going to create and then every year or two have an audit of the > > actual number of jobs created. > > > > Build here, build now...Buy American made. > > > > > -- > Christian Brink > cbrink@christianbrink.com > http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=133383 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > > > > > -- > Every bill here on out should have the approximate number of jobs it > is going to create and then every year or two have an audit of the > actual number of jobs created. > > Build here, build now...Buy American made. > -- Christian Brink cbrink@christianbrink.com http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=133383 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 30 14:06:08 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5UI67t4006965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:06:08 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5UI678X006962 for slug-track29; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:06:07 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5UI670q006958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:06:07 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sp.nks.net [24.73.112.219]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5UI66A2019068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:06:06 -0400 Received: from mail-gx0-f226.google.com (mail-gx0-f226.google.com [209.85.217.226]) by nks-ma-100-sp.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5UHA3VI020099 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:10:03 -0400 Received: by gxk26 with SMTP id 26so422855gxk.13 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:10:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-enigmail-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4zmx2924QbLVw02wo+Qeo78/6vdGVS2c94ssiGB/bWc=; b=HMRBnHtFwmWZLKV8qvtWwy7QTtnvTdshohFjnffBE96Xa3+71R0XT+1fiQPIlJ5KEq 99Bd9pnzIMfgJyBuOCwQR2RYdfLqaJn5V4FJD49VC4k0oQDAJ5H6nVtWNWS9Ea1/IN9j 3/EVcVcGfcXwJDXS9H7TDt5Csw7okizJPvLo8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=x3rw9qK+wACLg5nyj+tyJ2+3bodQ1U++cFlDFSpURw2a8OQVoeaT6cPPl7P4+q9i09 5yBvPgQSBX+xadc+n9baNCiWEjPVHEOf4BHvEDbzGYsyOCM9Mdzaenyd5Iyvzy5rh08+ +QM/Orp/N0f+XsgF7Ayff+RTZfp8Sx0vnHY6A= Received: by 10.101.69.6 with SMTP id w6mr11667196ank.6.1246379920145; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:38:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.141? ([190.154.90.10]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 3sm477748aga.45.2009.06.30.09.38.37 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:38:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4A4A3FE7.8090803@debian.org> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:40:07 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Miguel_Parrella_Romero?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081105) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] Security for Open Source Application References: <49F5758B.6020109@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <49F5758B.6020109@verizon.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-HELO: mail-gx0-f226.google.com X-Mismatched-From: True X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-1.699, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_00 -2.60, BP_youhavewon 0.25, MIME_8BIT_HEADER 0.30, NKS_MISMATCHED_FROM 0.25) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net Pete Theisen escribió: > Is security especially problematic in open source? I have personally > only had one event to my website, but if the source code for a web > application is out there, it seems that an attacker has an advantage. Having the source code out there is not a security flaw per se. However, if the developers (which might be an individual, a group of individuals, a community or even a big company) lacks proper measures to respond to any specific incidents that might arise from having their code open to other's eyes, then there's a problem. OTOH, if people believe and work on a peer-based review for open source code out there, past events seem to support that FOSS code actually becomes more secure in time. > I am planning a Python application on the Dabo > framework, both are open source. The data on a web server will be of the > type that is HIPAA protected so the security has to be pretty good. The > people interested in stealing the data will be insurance companies so > they will presumably have really good crackers working for them. ... > On advice, I was thinking of requiring WPA for wireless users (or use > hard wire) and using a SSL tunnel to the server. Also, I intend to keep > the personal contact information separate from the case data. Sometimes, most requirements for compliance can be achieved through an integral, structural focus mainly involving securing transports and separating and properly securing data. This is what you're pointing at with this idea. I don't believe free and open source software to be weaker from a security standpoint than closed source software, not even in a compliance scenario. If you really require wireless access to the system, then WPA2 and RADIUS are sound options. Switching to wired-only doesn't increase security unless you have physical security as per access prevention to your wired network. Nowadays, even legitimate computers connected to a wired network might be compromised and setup as a wireless access. Regarding SSL, it's generally a good idea, as long as you check, trust and block access upon identity mismatches. If both ends support communicating using TLS/SSL, then you can use it already (go ahead and buy certs or build your own CA) otherwise you can setup a VPN using SSL or securing communications through SSL tunnels. Of course, users should be required to access the system using only SSL/TLS in their browsers. It's out there in most browsers - even in mobile phones. Your application should implement some level of security, which trascends the fact it's open or closed source. You can compile hashes for any messages between data sources and application logic to enforce integrity checks, you can use a centralized LDAP server where all user accounts can be held, configure access levels and disable/enable when necessary. You can encrypt data in the databases, which will have an impact on performance but won't let sysadmins access user's data. HTH, Jose ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 30 14:21:10 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5UILAvr009155 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:21:10 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5UILAN2009152 for slug-track29; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:21:10 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5UIL9EK009148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:21:09 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sd.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sd.nks.net [24.73.112.207]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5UIL8Mb020752 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:21:08 -0400 Received: from mail-yx0-f180.google.com (mail-yx0-f180.google.com [209.85.210.180]) by nks-ma-100-sd.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5UHB5dZ019024 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:11:05 -0400 Received: by yxe10 with SMTP id 10so386374yxe.7 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:11:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-enigmail-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=5xgwx5lib8OE9pe7r/ZMBTspay/P5U1qv9XoY8MFwhw=; b=K+rPiEtI8IqO9xYQbYGwTJ6T+AWQcTSDsUNLNeANY6uROTgk+r2nhaCJZ8mq81mkNc i4XLY+thdGYKFPA4UqTH/UAUsxnPLqVKbU2qOmU5IaPTvoYiD1u35LmgvRYo26XY0Vnd EJcYuNaiqRGQAHGapjn6D8CuV+wqLmXTkfFdM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=LNee4M0pWC0NtwNHHlgLSKQmuWGZlT619hvul+zBuTwq/sE07hfUd8f2UAqo04Jg22 dLoDC2qbZYlu0hToK8P4X84J9GNVnbumpaR7Frl3PQ6LvQOqZvDLCsm+KCvVPDzbiZGo EOpiX6PKR9xPh/SapdDOuckCgmrdmycC99PPA= Received: by 10.90.93.17 with SMTP id q17mr1846048agb.64.1246379924018; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:38:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.141? ([190.154.90.10]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 9sm476044agb.75.2009.06.30.09.38.42 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:38:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4A4A3FEC.90902@debian.org> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:40:12 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Miguel_Parrella_Romero?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081105) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] replacement for MS Project References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-HELO: mail-yx0-f180.google.com X-Mismatched-From: True X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-0.56, required 6, BAYES_05 -1.11, MIME_8BIT_HEADER 0.30, NKS_MISMATCHED_FROM 0.25) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net William Coulter escribió: > A friend asked me the other day if there was something that was open source > that would replace MS Projects. I have no idea what MS Projects is or what > it does. In MS Windows and GNU/Linux you can run OpenProj and GanttProject. Both state that they'll open and save MS Project XML files. I haven't tried interoperatibility, though. In GNU/Linux you can also run Planner and some other project management software. They lack MS Project file support AFAICT. If you'd like to go Web, there's dotProject and Project-Open. I've been told Project-Open is really feature complete as per project mgmt. HTH, Jose ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 30 14:34:50 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5UIYnT9011037 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:34:49 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5UIYnkk011034 for slug-track29; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:34:49 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5UIYn2A011030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:34:49 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-ti.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-ti.nks.net [24.73.112.235]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5UIYmTa022529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:34:49 -0400 Received: from mail-gx0-f226.google.com (mail-gx0-f226.google.com [209.85.217.226]) by nks-ma-100-ti.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5UIPljK024865 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:25:47 -0400 Received: by gxk26 with SMTP id 26so507436gxk.13 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:25:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=xNTiuA460AAtU/hGk8VocbiXcdHIrZ6bskjCBdEh1WA=; b=nwN96N54r133wbJi8EGLcjEW7DC7WxTVzOYP3r80zOtIHjsm4p9O/EUqQ2/7sABMT3 yXc4QwPCoOs/EuiXCnYBVJthS7NdKaOve2s4KgfE36Jz/+j9ths2tiG1KCZ95Dr7rsSV xXxw+K+V8xSr2mNIXfH1i6GZEF1Sr+ULS9iHw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=NVIyi89ZsikVkSzZ5UoB3Fdcv8FgLenm4AR7SlHkqSyZ33NqWqj1hgDM74khAqgTI2 c51ogWLnSLYFNVKPYAkaLdEXzUly9ZBkFzUAtirZFBLDuzVHvvvoiR/ylx5EKF+drJsY mm4538IAjlkv8O2bU+Sg/3J62TuVdgSyPf9DY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.34.3 with SMTP id h3mr4085380anh.137.1246386346085; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:25:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4A4A3FEC.90902@debian.org> References: <4A4A3FEC.90902@debian.org> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:25:46 -0400 Message-ID: <9f052bac0906301125g2223fe5an3276123d49bcc396@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [SLUG] replacement for MS Project From: james labocki To: slug@nks.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6471258694cb5046d94ef09 X-HELO: mail-gx0-f226.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.783, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAD_STRING_debian_PUNCdot_org -1.05, BAD_STRING_r_PUNCdot_html 1.00, BAYES_05 -1.11, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71, HTML_50_60 0.13, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net --0016e6471258694cb5046d94ef09 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable KPlato ( http://www.koffice.org/kplato/ ) OpenProj( http://openproj.org/openproj ) GanttProject( http://ganttproject.sourceforge.net/ ) Planner( http://live.gnome.org/Planner ) TaskJuggler( http://www.taskjuggler.org/ ) 2009/6/30 Jos=E9 Miguel Parrella Romero > William Coulter escribi=F3: > > A friend asked me the other day if there was something that was open > source > > that would replace MS Projects. I have no idea what MS Projects is or > what > > it does. > > In MS Windows and GNU/Linux you can run OpenProj and GanttProject. Both > state that they'll open and save MS Project XML files. I haven't tried > interoperatibility, though. > > In GNU/Linux you can also run Planner and some other project management > software. They lack MS Project file support AFAICT. > > If you'd like to go Web, there's dotProject and Project-Open. I've been > told Project-Open is really feature complete as per project mgmt. > > HTH, > Jose > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > --0016e6471258694cb5046d94ef09 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20
KPlato ( http://www.koffice.org/kplato/ )
OpenProj ( http://openproj.org/openproj )
GanttProject ( http://ganttproject.sourceforge.net/ )
Planner ( http://live.gnome.org/Planner )
TaskJuggler ( http://www.taskjuggler.org/ )
<= br>

--0016e6471258694cb5046d94ef09-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 30 16:02:26 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5UK2Q6C023424 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:02:26 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5UK2Qj8023421 for slug-track29; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:02:26 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5UK2Ph2023417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:02:25 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sd.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sd.nks.net [24.73.112.207]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5UK2PNT001702 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:02:25 -0400 Received: from mail-yx0-f180.google.com (mail-yx0-f180.google.com [209.85.210.180]) by nks-ma-100-sd.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5UJ8qTv006680 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:08:52 -0400 Received: by yxe10 with SMTP id 10so504172yxe.7 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:08:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:date:from:to:subject :message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=VEv3M2PgME2m78yM380N1Xs0OtL6l/1w6grmP/waj1w=; b=ucmUKixBY/BQ126OXqZebHLYRcbYZ9PsliyyV978m0GKZuyvz6djL/8S5Rqh8p+2YU 1TYMvx+7zLiC5sDlqDG9jKHGuaTg8v5T2c4UDm5ZHuFZDvB1kME6isPGl4Espv707Ut4 C5Z2JKHboPmj7Hi2btik6vnEFgBwLP00smhzg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=VazGsQZyojupe2miBaY8JsCtGup55809IOzRnzvFj8CXKwyod7uIBEpqwzMPXMtadB 0JlTzCmIsSvjoX7ELfxJBYtN0b0GUavw1TZtrd4gPIEl0qodhgGZtS4+VxmBsjh66DMh qJJuPPUj6YS6ThWhogVsSp0xqFLELxy/eJV54= Received: by 10.90.80.4 with SMTP id d4mr7505361agb.67.1246388931102; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:08:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shawn-laptop (static-96-254-233-74.tampfl.fios.verizon.net [96.254.233.74]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 7sm746983agd.43.2009.06.30.12.08.50 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:08:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:08:47 -0400 From: "Shawn J. Goff" To: slug@nks.net Subject: Re: [SLUG] replacement for MS Project Message-ID: <20090630150847.0b40024f@shawn-laptop> In-Reply-To: <9f052bac0906301125g2223fe5an3276123d49bcc396@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A4A3FEC.90902@debian.org> <9f052bac0906301125g2223fe5an3276123d49bcc396@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.5.0 (GTK+ 2.14.4; i486-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-HELO: mail-yx0-f180.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-1.899, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAD_STRING_debian_PUNCdot_org -1.05, BAD_STRING_gmail_PUNCdot_com 0.65, BAD_STRING_r_PUNCdot_html 1.00, BAYES_00 -2.60) X-Spam-Status: No Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by slug-list-00.nks.net id n5UK2Qh1023418 Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net There are also a few Google Apps project managers. On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:25:46 -0400 james labocki wrote: > KPlato ( > http://www.koffice.org/kplato/ ) > OpenProj( > http://openproj.org/openproj ) > GanttProject( > http://ganttproject.sourceforge.net/ ) > Planner( > http://live.gnome.org/Planner ) > TaskJuggler( > http://www.taskjuggler.org/ ) > > 2009/6/30 José Miguel Parrella Romero > > > William Coulter escribió: > > > A friend asked me the other day if there was something that was > > > open > > source > > > that would replace MS Projects. I have no idea what MS Projects > > > is or > > what > > > it does. > > > > In MS Windows and GNU/Linux you can run OpenProj and GanttProject. > > Both state that they'll open and save MS Project XML files. I > > haven't tried interoperatibility, though. > > > > In GNU/Linux you can also run Planner and some other project > > management software. They lack MS Project file support AFAICT. > > > > If you'd like to go Web, there's dotProject and Project-Open. I've > > been told Project-Open is really feature complete as per project > > mgmt. > > > > HTH, > > Jose > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by > > Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in > > messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily > > reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its > > employees. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 30 17:31:07 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5ULV7im003479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:31:07 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5ULV7ML003476 for slug-track29; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:31:07 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5ULV6jb003472 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:31:06 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-sa.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-sa.nks.net [24.73.112.204]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5ULV36N011799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:31:06 -0400 Received: from mail-fx0-f225.google.com (mail-fx0-f225.google.com [209.85.220.225]) by nks-ma-100-sa.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5UKJ08k014938 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:19:01 -0400 Received: by fxm25 with SMTP id 25so454797fxm.13 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:19:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=3LuJ2PSx10+V9NsnF5xL+KAthij5YgWeepas0AfL9is=; b=DRjqFh6iRs709a6UU2wmUnwx4KUxteYdyv5UfbKeCvqBa/oFXuHKNFvdz2rpUSw4n4 /x8S84Bj7z354QZ8IKIL6OKFXsjAwWvyF9bNig7LN4bIhk/2rVXkpTw+C3MfhpZbnRpK /1bLy7KfKZpW7gCKtB1JXDmuEGt6yv9G0iS6Y= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=VtFw3a7mgX+ttzrMceavJ9vEc2rjidxOUKiA0JaiWr+ciyma4Edj3BrUc8lx0fCnF8 Qqu/HgqnlyqKX9TtLv1/5W+8v0TD8Z8KixNnh0w0iaA/Tk2o5weIP/U5/pHOr1Bhtntk L2H7Bd6UpTenrW3U5dI9D3BymyVutLDTuw6yQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.120.19 with SMTP id b19mr4312956bkr.36.1246393139398; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:18:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4A4A3FEC.90902@debian.org> References: <4A4A3FEC.90902@debian.org> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:18:59 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [SLUG] replacement for MS Project From: William Coulter To: slug@nks.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5a27e5308d3046d968497 X-HELO: mail-fx0-f225.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=-1.49, required 6, BAD_STRING_debian_PUNCdot_org -1.05, BAYES_00 -2.60, BP_THISISNOTABILL 0.45, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST 1.71, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net --001636c5a27e5308d3046d968497 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I haven't thought about going web. I will take a look at them. Thanks. 2009/6/30 Jos=E9 Miguel Parrella Romero > William Coulter escribi=F3: > > A friend asked me the other day if there was something that was open > source > > that would replace MS Projects. I have no idea what MS Projects is or > what > > it does. > > In MS Windows and GNU/Linux you can run OpenProj and GanttProject. Both > state that they'll open and save MS Project XML files. I haven't tried > interoperatibility, though. > > In GNU/Linux you can also run Planner and some other project management > software. They lack MS Project file support AFAICT. > > If you'd like to go Web, there's dotProject and Project-Open. I've been > told Project-Open is really feature complete as per project mgmt. > > HTH, > Jose > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > --=20 Every bill here on out should have the approximate number of jobs it is going to create and then every year or two have an audit of the actual number of jobs created. Build here, build now...Buy American made. --001636c5a27e5308d3046d968497 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I haven't thought about going web.=A0 I will take a look at them.=A0 Th= anks.

2009/6/30 Jos=E9 Miguel Parrella Ro= mero <bureado@de= bian.org>
William Coulter e= scribi=F3:
> A friend asked me the other day if there was somethi= ng that was open source
> that would replace MS Projects. =A0I have no idea what MS Projects is = or what
> it does.

In MS Windows and GNU/Linux you can run OpenProj and GanttProject. Bo= th
state that they'll open and save MS Project XML files. I haven't tr= ied
interoperatibility, though.

In GNU/Linux you can also run Planner and some other project management
software. They lack MS Project file support AFAICT.

If you'd like to go Web, there's dotProject and Project-Open. I'= ;ve been
told Project-Open is really feature complete as per project mgmt.

HTH,
Jose
-----------------------------------------= ------------------------------
This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked
Knowledge Systems (NKS). =A0Views and opinions expressed in messages
posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the
official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees.



--
Every bill = here on out should have the approximate number of jobs it is going to creat= e and then every year or two have an audit of the actual number of jobs cre= ated.

Build here, build now...Buy American made.

--001636c5a27e5308d3046d968497-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. From owner-slug-track29 Tue Jun 30 17:56:28 2009 Received: from slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5ULuSUF006975 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:56:28 -0400 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slug-list-00.ssn.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id n5ULuSE8006972 for slug-track29; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:56:28 -0400 Received: from nks-mail-02.nks.net (nks-mail-02.nks.net [24.73.114.101]) by slug-list-00.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5ULuRx7006968 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:56:27 -0400 Received: from nks-ma-100-ta.xen.nks.net (nks-ma-100-ta.nks.net [24.73.112.227]) by nks-mail-02.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5ULuQBe014963 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:56:26 -0400 Received: from mail-fx0-f225.google.com (mail-fx0-f225.google.com [209.85.220.225]) by nks-ma-100-ta.xen.nks.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Debian-9icb) with ESMTP id n5UKGcou021165 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:16:39 -0400 Received: by fxm25 with SMTP id 25so453197fxm.13 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:16:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=jGBkjlUjm4GzeRAjRb2oxLGBiStizWdt5Sul3e92eJ4=; b=RCVsy9rIZN6GAnXa6GtCnoY0x2wgQVL6oI+yFs/DbTuoNjixJN2/Vyyarq0DTS7+f3 LJOpLPOxOL1N5LFLARnZVD91D6gDAqrFnmkfht93DuytnFaxVvsCrVpj/Iq2N+gzfwUt YY/4FG8E3tdXhEjOA4iCBkiNW6yarUPS3hhEA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=IZHGsFw2uK1eLqP8jWeQJqlg44GNu7otH508xHIT3XEvqUSzVgaH2jTmXaEau2q6b7 7cc+uWq8AA13aQ2uV36xahUGH1uK3qPFdP/+vZtjmQJCz54bCPUpHG9vUR+g2iX2wHrA xtNJ3t5h3ZhrcGgkW/ytgExnGsPgHoJW2iCc8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.117.20 with SMTP id o20mr6572259bkq.1.1246392997397; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:16:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4A4A13F3.7010508@christianbrink.com> References: <4A48E271.7020409@christianbrink.com> <4A4A13F3.7010508@christianbrink.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:16:37 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [SLUG] replacement for MS Project From: William Coulter To: slug@nks.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5a521dc4439046d967bc9 X-HELO: mail-fx0-f225.google.com X-NKS-MailAssistant-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NKS-MailAssistant: Found to be clean X-NKS-MailAssistant-SpamCheck: not spam, NKS MailAssistant (score=0.185, required 6, BAD_STRING__PUNCdot_com 0.10, BAYES_20 -0.74, BP_THISISNOTABILL 0.45, HTML_30_40 0.37, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00) X-Spam-Status: No Sender: slug@nks.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: slug@nks.net --001636c5a521dc4439046d967bc9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, I thought that I would ask. William On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Christian Brink wrote: > William Coulter wrote: > > Christian, > > Thanks for the personal info. I may do the same thing. Have you > > tried using Project in Wine? > Yes, I tried :) It didn't work too well. But using VirtualBox (on a > machine with dual core and a decent amount of RAM) has made it fairly > seamless. > > > > > > > William > > > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Christian Brink > > > wrote: > > > > William Coulter wrote: > > > A friend asked me the other day if there was something that was > open > > > source that would replace MS Projects. I have no idea what MS > > > Projects is or what it does. > > > > > > > I've done a lot of research on this and used various products, and > > right > > now I run M$ Project in VirtualBox. > > > > The main issues are resource leveling, earned value analysis and > other > > nice tools. > > > > The products I tested/used were. Gnome Tracker( formally MR Project > ), > > TaskJuggler, KPlato, and OpenProj. > > > > The closest in functionality is TaskJuggler. It does resource > > leveling. > > It is text based entry which I suppose would turn people off. I > > used it > > for 6 months before going back to M$ Project. I stopped using it > > mainly > > because it is missing the ability to do a couple standard tracking > > reports. Don't get me wrong it's good, it does a lot, and it's > > flexible. > > But it does not have a few key features that, if you are used to M$ > > Proj, I would think you would find it lacking. > > > > As for OpenProj(community) and Gnome Tracker they don't have resource > > leveling and that is basically a no-go for any project manager. > > > > The most recent beta of KPlato has resource leveling but overall > > it is a > > little buggy. It does not have some features that M$ Proj has, and it > > does have some usability issues but it does have a workable GUI. > > > > > > > > > William > > > > > > -- > > > Every bill here on out should have the approximate number of jobs > it > > > is going to create and then every year or two have an audit of the > > > actual number of jobs created. > > > > > > Build here, build now...Buy American made. > > > > > > > > > -- > > Christian Brink > > cbrink@christianbrink.com > > http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=133383 > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Every bill here on out should have the approximate number of jobs it > > is going to create and then every year or two have an audit of the > > actual number of jobs created. > > > > Build here, build now...Buy American made. > > > > > -- > Christian Brink > cbrink@christianbrink.com > http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=133383 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked > Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages > posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. > -- Every bill here on out should have the approximate number of jobs it is going to create and then every year or two have an audit of the actual number of jobs created. Build here, build now...Buy American made. --001636c5a521dc4439046d967bc9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, I thought that I would ask.
William

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Christian Brink &l= t;cbrink@christianbrink.com> wrote:
William Coulter wrote:
> Christian,
> Thanks for the personal info. =A0I may do the same thing. =A0Have you<= br> > tried using Project in Wine?
Yes, I tried :) It didn't work too well. But using VirtualBox (on= a
machine with dual core and a decent amount of RAM) has made it fairly
seamless.



>
> William
>
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Christian Brink
> <cbrink@christianbrink.com <mailto:cbrink@christianbrink.com>> wrote:<= br> >
> =A0 =A0 William Coulter wrote:
> =A0 =A0 > A friend asked me the other day if there was something th= at was open
> =A0 =A0 > source that would replace MS Projects. =A0I have no idea = what MS
> =A0 =A0 > Projects is or what it does.
> =A0 =A0 >
>
> =A0 =A0 I've done a lot of research on this and used various produ= cts, and
> =A0 =A0 right
> =A0 =A0 now I run M$ Project in VirtualBox.
>
> =A0 =A0 The main issues are resource leveling, earned value analysis a= nd other
> =A0 =A0 nice tools.
>
> =A0 =A0 The products I tested/used were. Gnome Tracker( formally MR Pr= oject ),
> =A0 =A0 TaskJuggler, KPlato, and OpenProj.
>
> =A0 =A0 The closest in functionality is TaskJuggler. It does resource<= br> > =A0 =A0 leveling.
> =A0 =A0 It is text based entry which I suppose would turn people off. = I
> =A0 =A0 used it
> =A0 =A0 for 6 months before going back to M$ Project. I stopped using = it
> =A0 =A0 mainly
> =A0 =A0 because it is missing the ability to do a couple standard trac= king
> =A0 =A0 reports. Don't get me wrong it's good, it does a lot, = and it's
> =A0 =A0 flexible.
> =A0 =A0 But it does not have a few key features that, if you are used = to M$
> =A0 =A0 Proj, I would think you would find it lacking.
>
> =A0 =A0 As for OpenProj(community) and Gnome Tracker they don't ha= ve resource
> =A0 =A0 leveling and that is basically a no-go for any project manager= .
>
> =A0 =A0 The most recent beta of KPlato has resource leveling but overa= ll
> =A0 =A0 it is a
> =A0 =A0 little buggy. It does not have some features that M$ Proj has,= and it
> =A0 =A0 does have some usability issues but it does have a workable GU= I.
>
>
>
> =A0 =A0 > William
> =A0 =A0 >
> =A0 =A0 > --
> =A0 =A0 > Every bill here on out should have the approximate number= of jobs it
> =A0 =A0 > is going to create and then every year or two have an aud= it of the
> =A0 =A0 > actual number of jobs created.
> =A0 =A0 >
> =A0 =A0 > Build here, build now...Buy American made.
> =A0 =A0 >
>
>
> =A0 =A0 --
> =A0 =A0 Christian Brink
> =A0 =A0 cbrin= k@christianbrink.com <mailto:cbrink@christianbrink.com>
> =A0 =A0 http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node= _id=3D133383
>
> =A0 =A0 --------------------------------------------------------------= ---------
> =A0 =A0 This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Ne= tworked
> =A0 =A0 Knowledge Systems (NKS). =A0Views and opinions expressed in me= ssages
> =A0 =A0 posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect = the
> =A0 =A0 official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees. >
>
>
>
> --
> Every bill here on out should have the approximate number of jobs it > is going to create and then every year or two have an audit of the
> actual number of jobs created.
>
> Build here, build now...Buy American made.
>


--
Christian Brink
cbrink@christianbrink.com<= br> http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=3D133383

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked
Knowledge Systems (NKS). =A0Views and opinions expressed in messages
posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the
official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees.



--
Every bill = here on out should have the approximate number of jobs it is going to creat= e and then every year or two have an audit of the actual number of jobs cre= ated.

Build here, build now...Buy American made.

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