Re: Re: [SLUG] This is for David as he chose to throw TNT onto the gas

From: awyatt@fewt.com
Date: Tue Jun 18 2002 - 15:17:15 EDT


Thanks, that's exactly as I expected.

You Wrote:

Date: 18 Jun 2002 15:04:15 -0400
From: "Martin C. Messer" <marty@redhat.com>
To: slug@nks.net
Subject: Re: [SLUG] This is for David as he chose to throw TNT onto the gas

Hello all,

Firstly, a disclaimer. I am in IS/IT, not Sales, Legal, Marketing, et.
al. My background is technical, my mindset is technical. Anything that
comes out of my mouth that isn't technical is one of two things: 1) my
personal opinion, such as my feelings about the Open Source way of life
or 2) something told to me by Sales, Legal, Marketing, et. al.

With that said, I will do my best to explain my understanding of the
situation. To begin with, read this:

http://www.redhat.com/about/corporate/trademark/guidelines.html

I did, and then I went and spoke with Mark Webbink, our General Counsel.
I posed the following question to him: can someone download our
distribution directly (ftp.redhat.com) or indirectly (mirrors), put it
on a some medium (CD, hard disk, whatever) and resell it? Answer: Yes,
with one exception. It can in no way be mistaken for Red Hat Linux in
name, meaning that the end consumer should know that what they what they
are buying is not Red Hat Linux. And I went one step further and asked
if we required any code changes to the distribution, or could it be
passed on untouched. And the answer was No, we require no code changes,
it can be passed on unmodified.

Now, let's talk semantics. Red Hat Linux is not just the code and
packages and logos that can be found in an ISO. Red Hat Linux is a
conceptual product that includes a Linux OS, support, documentation, and
Red Hat Network access. That means that the ISO you download is not Red
Hat Linux, but 1/4 of Red Hat Linux. Therefore, when you resell the
contents of that ISO, it can't be called Red Hat Linux. In one way it is
like selling the chassis to a car and calling it a new Honda. A new
Honda comes with several other parts and the backing of Honda's warranty
and service contract. Same idea, different realm.

[BTW, I made a rather general statement yesterday that needs
clarification. I said that there are no non-GPL elements in the OS part
of Red Hat Linux. I should have said there are no proprietary pieces,
since the GPL is but one of the many Open Source-type licenses.
Apologies. (Thanks Russ)]

I hope that helps with the question concerning whether or not one can
download the ISOs for the OS and resell them. Everything can remain
intact but the name, since the name Red Hat Linux is not just the OS
part of the package.

As for the VAR issue, I can't speak for Red Hat's strategy concerning
who can and can't be a VAR. From what I can tell, to our Sales folks, a
VAR is a very large distributor. The exact rules are a mystery to anyone
not working directly with the program, so I will not attempt to define
them. I think the problem that David experienced was caused by a poor
choice of routing within the company. I am the type of person David
should have been sent to, not Chad or Chris. Hopefully, now that I have
gotten all the right people at Red Hat together and we've seen where
things went wrong, going forward we will handle requests like this much
better. We are relatively new at working with third parties in the
education space, and when David reached out to us to get some info,
"third party" was mapped directly to "VAR" while the "education" bit
should have altered this routing to a more friendly destination, like
"Education Partner".

Again, I really hope this helps more than it caused further confusion or
frustration. I have done my best at interpreting the hard and fast rules
that define our business, but even an old timer like me can be
misinformed. I do promise to follow up on any questions you folks might
have.

On Tue, 2002-06-18 at 13:45, David Meyer wrote:
> Ian,
>
> One day we're going to have to meet...I enjoy reading your posts. Very well
> though out..even if they make me sigh :)
>
> Rather than trying to call Chris, because he is exceptionally busy, email
> Martin Messer who is on this list. I think he has a good handle on what is
> going on. In addition, don't hold your breath for Chad to return your call.
> It took three email attempts and phone calls over two months to get any
> response from him. Chris and Martin are quite helpful though.
>
> Dave
--
Martin C. Messer | marty@redhat.com
Red Hat, Inc. | Information Systems & Technologies
1801 Varsity Drive | 919-754-3700 x44148
Raleigh, NC 27606 | 919-931-9815 (mobile)



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