On Sat, 2004-12-04 at 21:22, Chad Perrin wrote:
> Nice job cutting out context, nincompoop.
I understood your context completely. The problem is that it is
_conflicting_. Again, you stated (_complete_):
Statement #1 (_complete_):
"There are better things to be offended/snippy/whatever at than the
fact that some of us just aren't interested in trying Fedora out
for ourselves any time soon."
First off, I wasn't "offended." Quit thinking I'm "offended." For
someone who constantly states *I* answer for others in ways they did not
intend, you seem to do it just as much as I.
Secondly, you seem to state that you aren't interested in trying out
Fedora, and I shouldn't take offense/snippy/whatever at that. The
problem is we get entire threads on people who are talking from 2nd or
3rd hand experience. And then when someone like myself with 1st hand
experience tries to introduce some fact, the 2nd and 3rd hand
speculation continues. That's _exactly_ what was going on!
And I tire of letting it reach a dozen plus posts. I don't care if its
Red Hat, Microsoft, SuSE, Apple, etc... Speculation, 2nd or 3rd hand
views, assumptions, etc... can build an entire "truth" of their own.
One that seems to be impossible to break because it is a "major
assumption" perceived as fact.
Statement #2 (again, _complete_):
"You're getting sanctimonious again.
How the fu . . . heck do you expect people to learn about things they
don't know about if they're not willing to examine it, discuss it,
now and then? Shut the hell up and stop being pissy just because not
everybody in the world is glued to your ass."
I honest expect people to learn by _doing_. 2nd hand knowledge has a
tendency to become 3rd hand and a set of assumptions, and then that
turns into a whole thread of those. This was clearly heading that way.
In addition to stating that Red Hat overstates its installation
requirements as a "worst case scenario" (no swap, UMA for video RAM,
many other issues, etc...), I offered a comment on Alan Cox, a statement
I got from him _first_hand_ on the Fedora list when someone complained
about the "GUI requirements" of Fedora. Fedora Core 2 introduced XFCE
for this _exact_ reason, and Alan confirmed that he was running it.
A 2nd or 3rd hand viewpoint thread _may_ be healthy as long as 1st hand
people aren't being drowned out. The problem is that 2nd and 3rd hand
tend to dominate, and this discussion was going that route rather
quickly. In fact, I stayed out of the previous Apple discussion until
your "unfamiliarity" with how notebook PCs and Apples work was very
noticeable.
> Maybe I should start doing that with your messages, and splice the
> pieces together to make you sound like a member of the KKK. It might
> take a little work, but I'm pretty sure I could do it.
Go ahead. You do what you want. At this point, you seem to be more
than ready to accuse me of many things that you yourself are guilty of.
And that's the difference between me and you. I'll admit my faults. I
don't try to go around "correcting" your posting approach, lambasting
your various insults, etc..., because I'd be hypocritical for me to do
so. But you seem up to do _exactly_ that of me.
> If you had any ability to stay on-topic when you fly off into one of
> your "explanations",
This "issue" with me has come up numerous times. The problem is I'm
torn between the "gurus" who don't want to hear it because they already
know it, the "noobies" who might come back to read it later or the
"Google crawler" that tags it and people find it.
In reality, I try to summarize lightly at the top, and then bottom-post
details as I see appropriate. Sometimes I'm not sure what depth or what
"additional information" is required. And I'm sure I will _never_
"please everyone."
In fact, given that a question only comes from 2-3 people, I'm sure
_many_ of my posts are rather "unnecessary" from the standpoint of
_most_ people's viewpoints. So why do I bother the list with all that
verbage?
Because there's typically 1 person who appreciates them. Regularly I'll
get a message from a list subscriber that says something like, "Your
verbage used to annoyment until you answered one of my questions.
Because you not only answered it, but several others that I could have
also asked."
So you can comment, complain and otherwise "get sick of me," but I know
why I post as much as I do. Because it's not for the majority, but a
very small minority. If it bothers you that much, then send me to
/dev/null. ;->
> people would probably pay more attention to what you say,
Honest, you can go ahead and assume _no_one_ pays attention to me. I
don't get off "feeling I'm important" or anything. I merely offer my
_opinion_ as appropriate. Feel free to assume _nothing_ I say is of
_any_ value. ;->
> and you wouldn't be pulling this "woe is me" crap whenever
> someone is discussing something you've already mentioned as though you
> hadn't said anything because they would have noticed when you said
> something that pertained to the discussion at hand.
I don't act so "innocent" as you say. I don't claim I'm "innocent"
either.
I interjected a _very_specific_ post on what the requirement were of a
GUI like XFCE. I mentioned Alan Cox because it was directly in a thread
I had with him on a Fedora list.
Someone _else_ then interjected an installer requirement on Fedora,
which _is_ listed in the Release Notes**. And then the thread went from
there. I tried to offer what I had _personally_ done with the installer
on a system with as little as 24MB.
You then stated your _assumption_ again, _quoting_ me. Again, that's
part of the problem right there! I mention something 2nd hand about
Alan Cox and his 48MB RAM system. You're already theorizing 3rd hand --
even though I just stated, from _first_hand_ (which you quoted directly)
that installing Fedora in sub-32MB is _very_possible_.
And then someone did a 3rd hand comment upon yours! It's almost funny
to see this! I'm sitting here with a _first_hand_ explanation of how
Alan Cox can install Fedora in 48MB of RAM, because I've done it in as
little as 24MB, and people are still giving 2nd or 3rd hand commentary!
> Get over your ego and just admit that you need to stop being a
> sanctimonious victim all the time.
I'm not a victim. But I do _dislike_ the fact that I see lots of posts
from people who don't use something, and go off assuming things.
In fact, you have now gone to great lengths to comment on my "verbage"
and other things about "staying on-topic." At what point do you stop
looking at me and look at _yourself_ for once?
I don't claim I'm innocent. But you are just as "guilty" of what you
are claiming me of! Stop and re-read back through your posts.
-- Bryan
**NOTE: Red Hat is one of those companies that overstates the minimums
and what they won't do. Because it's much easier to actually offer
more, then state more and not be able to deliver. It goes to the heart
of all Red Hat releases, "Underpromise, overdeliver" -- right down to
Fedora's minimum requirements. Because if they stated 32MB was the
minimum and it didn't install, you can be sure someone would complain.
Even the independent Rule Project has noted this regularly (including
making a "Miniconda" installer that removes some of the artificial
notices).
-- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- Subtotal Cost of Ownership (SCO) for Windows being less than Linux Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) assumes experts for the former, costly retraining for the latter, omitted "software assurance" costs in compatible desktop OS/apps for the former, no free/legacy reuse for latter, and no basic security, patch or downtime comparison at all.----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees.
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