On Sun, Sep 12, 2004 at 05:03:59AM -0400, John Pedersen wrote:
>
>
> >For example, the cash for most transactions in this economy do not come
> >from the refinancing of property. At the consumer level, cash mostly
> >comes from salaries, which arise from production of one sort or another.
>
> But the point is that soaring personal debt is what is keeping the
> economy "healthy" (by your definition; ie. buying and selling).
> Without the increasing personal debt, you would be seeing your
> precious "Paul's Buying and Selling Index" economic indicator falling,
> falling, falling....
Now we get to the meat of the matter. Yes, I've heard of increasing
consumer debt. And I've heard of the increase of personal bankruptcies.
These are Bad Things(tm). They're bad for the economy in the long run
because they erode the sustainability of the economy. However, if
productivity and buying and selling continue to increase, one would
expect them to compensate for this.
I'll avoid the dripping sarcasm you seem to have poured over this whole
issue.
>
> I think you must be the last person in America who hasn't heard about
> increasing levels of consumer debt and each year we set new records in
> personal backruptcy. Next year will see even worse figures, and the
> next year will be worse.... That's what happens when you ship jobs
> oversease, and discard your manufacturing base that has been
> responsible for America's rapid rise for the past couple of hundred years.
>
So it's all going to hell, is it? We're all doomed, doomed, dooooomed!
I don't believe that the rise in consumer debt and personal bankruptcy
is the direct result of offshoring, and I don't see a direct connection.
I see we're back to manufacturing being the core of our economy.
> The government whose figures you trust so much has been feeding the
> increasing debt by injecting almost interest-free money into the
> system, for several years now, so that people could add to their debt
> by refinancing their houses, etc. Maybe you haven't heard about that
> either.
>
I never said I trust the government's figures implicitly. Nor do I
consider it wholly the government's fault for lowering interest rates.
That does add to the borrowing which occurs, but it's not the only
reason that people increase their debt.
> You reject the complex data out of hand, and you reject simplified
> examples, so there ain't much left to say. I won't waste more time on
> consumer debt. You might want to try a really neat web site called
> Google.com, and search for information on "increasing consumer debt"
> or something like that.
Yes, John, we're all doomed. And you are the lone voice of sanity in a
world gone mad. We should all listen to you, and get jobs making tables.
We should form "table cooperatives". The government is completely
duplicitous, out to do us in and lie to us at every turn. They're
probably in league with Halliburton on this whole thing. And Halliburton
is probably really a Chinese company. Chinese ships are on their way now
to take us over and turn us into an annex of Beijing.
But I've seen the light now. Now I can call myself "sophisticated" and
"educated" because I believe the way John the Prophet does. I can look
down my nose at everyone else and bask in the pessimism of Knowing
What's Really Going On. My day is made!
Oops. I forgot about the sarcasm thing. Sorry.
Paul ;-}
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