My inbox is melting.
can't we all play nice nice.
On Tuesday 18 June 2002 07:59, you wrote:
> Justin,
>
> You did not have the conversation with Red Hat...I did. I am not giving
> stuff away, I am a business. When I sell a PC I include a SUPPORTED copy
> of SuSE which I have purchased from them directly at my cost, which I in
> turn pass along to the consumer when they purchase a system. Again, I am a
> business. SuSE requires me to do this because I am SELLING the PC's and
> servers. However, if I come to a SLUG meeting, I can pass out all the
> copied CD's I want. Why, because I am not selling anything, thus I am not
> making a profit on any part of the sale. If you'd like a copy of SuSE 8.0,
> I'll get you one...because I can.
>
> I asked Red Hat (Chad was the name of the individual I spoke to in the OEM
> / VAR department) and I was told that I_AM_NOT in any way, shape, or form
> allowed to put any Red Hat product on anything I sell, whether I download a
> copy or buy a boxed copy. Red Hat says they boxed sets you buy at CompUSA
> make up less that 1% of their revenue, so they don't consider that the same
> way SuSE does. They are concentrating on their advanced server product and
> the support contract that goes along with it.
>
> My problem is that that 99% of the customers I sell to run programs
> (backup, virtualization, etc) that MUST, MUST, MUST run on a name branded
> copy to be supported by the other manufacturer. That's just a fact of life
> that my customers must deal with. Most of my customers are commercial, not
> residential, so they have business requirements that the typical home users
> may not have.
>
> Open your eyes and read this carefully
> Justin...I_DON'T_WANT_TO_SELL_DOWNLOADED_DISTROS. That would be against
> the law, and I've never disagreed with that. I PURCHASE a BOXED_SET of the
> product and DO_NOT_MAKE_ANY (I_REPEAT) ANY_MONEY OFF_OF_THAT_BOXED SET.
>
> I_HAVE_NOTSPREAD_ANY_FUD. Again, I had the conversation with Red Hat Sir,
> you did not. If you would take a minute and read the posts from Robin,
> you'd understand that perhaps, just maybe, I'm being flamed for NO_REASON.
> You people that defend Red Hat like Microsoft are just upset that your
> favorite distro might not be all it's cracked up to be as a company.
>
> As far as their solution being more expensive than Microsoft, you speak of
> things you do not know. Advanced Server is not cheap. On top of that,
> throw in the annual support contract and the annual support contracts of
> the workstations and PC's and the cost is astronomical. Until you know
> what YOU are talking about, don't fan the flames. Red Hat openly states
> that they make their money from the support contracts. I know how much
> Microsoft solutions cost...because I can sell them too. Some companies are
> still unwilling to make the change to Linux, and as a business we'd be
> crazy not to sell them what they want if they won't buy what we want to
> sell them.
>
> I have said from day one I am not, nor will I ever, make a dime on any
> operating system I sell. I provide quality solutions, and having a solid
> Linux base is what we build those solutions on. Offering Linux for my
> cost, in my mind, is where the spirit of Linux users is.
> RED_HAT_DOES_NOT_AGREE. Chad, the individual who is in charge of their OEM
> / VAR department WILL_TELL_YOU_SO. By the way, if you call, be prepared
> to get the shock of your life. He'll tell you about the GPL material, but
> to quote Mr. Messer, a compensated Red Hat employee:
>
> "I understand the point you are making, but to clarify, there are no Red
> Hat proprietary, non-GPL extensions in Red Hat Linux. The only non-GPL
> thing still shipped is Netscape Communicator, though it is already
> deprecated and on its way out. I don't expect it to make the next cut."
>
> Frankly Justin, your comments show you have not read the very enlightening
> comments from Robin about Red Hat, nor have you bothered to read the rest
> of the well written messages that followed. Let me tell you again that I
> am a business and know all to well about following the rules. So please,
> don't feel the need to tell me how to run my business...I already pay a
> lawyer and and accountant a lot of money to do that.
>
> I hope this clears this up once and for all. You think I'm a troll and
> speak FUD. Frankly, don't care what you or anyone else thinks. People on
> this list that know me know differently. People that know how Red Hat does
> business (like Robin) understand and post good, informative comments that
> would have made comments like yours unnecessary. In the end, you make me
> laugh because you either have not read his post, or your so in bed with
> your downloaded version that you believe Red Hat can do no wrong.
>
> I had the conversation with Red Hat, you did not. You don't want to
> believe me, fine. In the end, only the following matters:
>
> 1. I am a business and I follow the rules.
> 2. Red Hat's rules prohibit a business from selling anything that has
> their logo, tools, etc. on it unless you are one of their official OEM
> partners. 3. While I was told yesterday that Red Hat, specifically by Mr.
> Messer, that they would work with me on the schools, the OEM / VAR position
> is still up in the air. They are two completely different departments
> within Red Hat. 3. SuSE and others have OEM agreements and other
> arrangements for businesses like mine. I am a SuSE business partner and
> sell ALL of their products. I would have liked to do the same with Red
> Hat.
> 4. Because I follow the rules and run my business in the black (that means
> I'm profitable) I'll not have any lawyers showing up on my front door.
> 5. My goal is to provide SOLID, legal solutions to my customers. Not to
> make you happy. If you can't understand that I don't want to, nor have I
> ever made any money from a Red Hat or any other company, I can't help you.
> Believe what you will, frankly, I don't care what you think. Again, you
> don't know me. You did not have the conversation with Red Hat.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Dave (aka The Troll) although I represent an Ogre much more. Kind of like
> Shrek, but with more warts. Have a nice day all.
>
> > NO! That's the whole point this guy is missing! He wants to sell comp's
> > with _unpaid-for_ distros copied onto them!
> >
> > If you want to sell a computer legally, why not buy the OS?
> >
> > To the original complainer:
> > Stop spreading _complete_FUD_! If you are selling the systems, you have
> > to abide by the rules!
> >
> > And BTW, there's no way in hell it would be more expensive than an MS
> > solution.
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