[SLUG] This is for Justin as he chose to dump gas on the fire

From: David Meyer (david@crbtechnologies.com)
Date: Tue Jun 18 2002 - 07:59:28 EDT


Justin,

You did not have the conversation with Red Hat...I did. I am not giving stuff
away, I am a business. When I sell a PC I include a SUPPORTED copy of SuSE
which I have purchased from them directly at my cost, which I in turn pass
along to the consumer when they purchase a system. Again, I am a business.
SuSE requires me to do this because I am SELLING the PC's and servers.
However, if I come to a SLUG meeting, I can pass out all the copied CD's I
want. Why, because I am not selling anything, thus I am not making a profit
on any part of the sale. If you'd like a copy of SuSE 8.0, I'll get you
one...because I can.

I asked Red Hat (Chad was the name of the individual I spoke to in the OEM /
VAR department) and I was told that I_AM_NOT in any way, shape, or form
allowed to put any Red Hat product on anything I sell, whether I download a
copy or buy a boxed copy. Red Hat says they boxed sets you buy at CompUSA
make up less that 1% of their revenue, so they don't consider that the same
way SuSE does. They are concentrating on their advanced server product and
the support contract that goes along with it.

My problem is that that 99% of the customers I sell to run programs (backup,
virtualization, etc) that MUST, MUST, MUST run on a name branded copy to be
supported by the other manufacturer. That's just a fact of life that my
customers must deal with. Most of my customers are commercial, not
residential, so they have business requirements that the typical home users
may not have.

Open your eyes and read this carefully
Justin...I_DON'T_WANT_TO_SELL_DOWNLOADED_DISTROS. That would be against the
law, and I've never disagreed with that. I PURCHASE a BOXED_SET of the
product and DO_NOT_MAKE_ANY (I_REPEAT) ANY_MONEY OFF_OF_THAT_BOXED SET.

I_HAVE_NOTSPREAD_ANY_FUD. Again, I had the conversation with Red Hat Sir,
you did not. If you would take a minute and read the posts from Robin, you'd
understand that perhaps, just maybe, I'm being flamed for NO_REASON. You
people that defend Red Hat like Microsoft are just upset that your favorite
distro might not be all it's cracked up to be as a company.

As far as their solution being more expensive than Microsoft, you speak of
things you do not know. Advanced Server is not cheap. On top of that, throw
in the annual support contract and the annual support contracts of the
workstations and PC's and the cost is astronomical. Until you know what YOU
are talking about, don't fan the flames. Red Hat openly states that they
make their money from the support contracts. I know how much Microsoft
solutions cost...because I can sell them too. Some companies are still
unwilling to make the change to Linux, and as a business we'd be crazy not to
sell them what they want if they won't buy what we want to sell them.

I have said from day one I am not, nor will I ever, make a dime on any
operating system I sell. I provide quality solutions, and having a solid
Linux base is what we build those solutions on. Offering Linux for my cost,
in my mind, is where the spirit of Linux users is. RED_HAT_DOES_NOT_AGREE.
Chad, the individual who is in charge of their OEM / VAR department
WILL_TELL_YOU_SO. By the way, if you call, be prepared to get the shock of
your life. He'll tell you about the GPL material, but to quote Mr. Messer, a
compensated Red Hat employee:

"I understand the point you are making, but to clarify, there are no Red
Hat proprietary, non-GPL extensions in Red Hat Linux. The only non-GPL
thing still shipped is Netscape Communicator, though it is already
deprecated and on its way out. I don't expect it to make the next cut."

Frankly Justin, your comments show you have not read the very enlightening
comments from Robin about Red Hat, nor have you bothered to read the rest of
the well written messages that followed. Let me tell you again that I am a
business and know all to well about following the rules. So please, don't
feel the need to tell me how to run my business...I already pay a lawyer and
and accountant a lot of money to do that.

I hope this clears this up once and for all. You think I'm a troll and speak
FUD. Frankly, don't care what you or anyone else thinks. People on this
list that know me know differently. People that know how Red Hat does
business (like Robin) understand and post good, informative comments that
would have made comments like yours unnecessary. In the end, you make me
laugh because you either have not read his post, or your so in bed with your
downloaded version that you believe Red Hat can do no wrong.

I had the conversation with Red Hat, you did not. You don't want to believe
me, fine. In the end, only the following matters:

1. I am a business and I follow the rules.
2. Red Hat's rules prohibit a business from selling anything that has their
logo, tools, etc. on it unless you are one of their official OEM partners.
3. While I was told yesterday that Red Hat, specifically by Mr. Messer, that
they would work with me on the schools, the OEM / VAR position is still up in
the air. They are two completely different departments within Red Hat.
3. SuSE and others have OEM agreements and other arrangements for businesses
like mine. I am a SuSE business partner and sell ALL of their products. I
would have liked to do the same with Red Hat.
4. Because I follow the rules and run my business in the black (that means
I'm profitable) I'll not have any lawyers showing up on my front door.
5. My goal is to provide SOLID, legal solutions to my customers. Not to make
you happy. If you can't understand that I don't want to, nor have I ever
made any money from a Red Hat or any other company, I can't help you.
Believe what you will, frankly, I don't care what you think. Again, you
don't know me. You did not have the conversation with Red Hat.

Sincerely,

Dave (aka The Troll) although I represent an Ogre much more. Kind of like
Shrek, but with more warts. Have a nice day all.

> NO! That's the whole point this guy is missing! He wants to sell comp's
> with _unpaid-for_ distros copied onto them!
>
> If you want to sell a computer legally, why not buy the OS?
>
> To the original complainer:
> Stop spreading _complete_FUD_! If you are selling the systems, you have
> to abide by the rules!
>
> And BTW, there's no way in hell it would be more expensive than an MS
> solution.



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