On Sun, 2004-10-17 at 11:39, Ken Elliott wrote:
> I checked Sun's site and that seemed to be what they were saying about the
> product. From what you say, it would appear that Sun doesn't do a very good
> job of describing the product. I don't have time to research every detail
> about technology that doesn't pertain to my missions. Perhaps you should
> suggest to Sun that they do a better job in describing their vision.
Agreed. Sorry for my 'tude. A lot of Linux people are currently
beating up Sun, and they don't deserve it.
Especially on the Java re-license by Microsoft, which is a "developer"
issue (despite "competition" in the application/system space, even
competiting "developer" tool companies have to work together).
That has spun thousands of conspiracy theories on the app/system end,
totally unrelated to any "developer" considerations.
GNU/Linux owes much of its current existence and capabilities to Sun
standards, code and other "open" contributions.
> I'd have to disagree. A 5-axis mill is a true 3D output device, as is a
> stereo lithography system. Most such systems I've used could more
> accurately be called a 3D simulation. And true 3D 6-axis-of-freedom input
> systems exist.
But they don't have an underlying "universal subsystem/API." For
Win32-GDI, X11, Aqua, etc..., they have to be "hacked on" to work in an
"existing environment." It's like the devices are a _superset_ of what
the system is capable of.
Looking Glass reverses that, it now offers a _full_API_ for such
devices.
> I would suggest that if you want to discuss CAD, you should consider
> researching the subject. The conversion of the market from 2D drafting to
> 3D is far from over, and is a hotly debated issue among CAD professionals.
No offense, but I'm a degreed engineer (with 2 semmesters of 2D/3D
design fundamentals) who has been working on AutoCAD since age 9 (grew
up in a civil engineering household), and spent 4 years in the
mechanical/aerospace field (CAM) and 2 years in the semiconductor field
(EDA).
The main reason I even got to work with the NT 3.1 beta back in
1992-1993 was because I was at the _largest_end-user_installation_ of
Bentley Systems Microstation (PBS&J). Microstation was one of the first
2 native Win32 applications (yes, circa 1992!).
Drafting is _not_ CAD, it's just one aspect. Don't forget about CAM and
EDA.
> In a nutshell, the vendors think the users are stupid and the users are mad
> about the severe limitations of pretty much all the systems.
Which systems? 98% of the opinions I've seen are on Autodesk products.
Autodesk and Bentley System products may dominate the traditional civil
engineering and technology landscape, but Pro/E and a few others
dominate the mechanical engineering and technology landscape. Pro/E
makes more sense to me as a 3D "CAD/CAM" platform, but most people have
never used it.
> While you can find some who have great success with 3D CAD, you find many
> more with horror stories of missed deadlines and failed projects. But
> this is another topic for another forum.
Pro/E seems to do fine for the companies I've deployed it at. The only
time I've seen such a mess is when people try to throw add-ons to
AutoCAD to do the same. They should just go Pro/E IMHO.
That's just my opinion. I've only supported AutoCAD, Microstation,
Pro/E and a view "xTRAN" type CAD/CAM programs extensively, plus the
common suite of EDA tools (from Cadence, Mentor Graphics/Modeltech,
Synopsys, Viewlogic, etc...).
> This will be my last post on this subject. I consider Brian to be a very
> intelligent and well informed expert. But it appears my replies have come
> across to him as an attack.
I have a tendency to "cope a 'tude" sometimes.
You're getting my "reverse-backlash" against Sun in the Linux world.
A lot of people hate Sun for all the wrong reasons.
You got a taste of my distain for this, my apologies, you didn't deserve
it.
There are a lot of "conspiracy theories" about Sun right now.
Most are based on Sun's re-license of Java to Microsoft combined with
the fact that Red Hat is Sun's primary competitor in the server space.
Most of them pick'n choose their arguments, not recognizing the _full_
"context" of Sun's moves and alignments.
Sun has many different technologies and products in different units, and
many are independent of each other.
I respect your viewpoints as intelligent and informed, and I'm sorry if
my responses were demeaning, suggesting otherwise.
> I'm sorry to everyone on this list for wasting the bandwidth of this non-
> Linux topic.
Since CAD/CAM/EDA is a _major_ Linux application discussion, and Linux
is _the_ prototype platform for Sun's Looking Glass technologies, this
is very much Linux.
If everyone was nice and sang about their favorite distro, that wouldn't
be a Linux list I'd want to be on. Nothing would get accomplished. I'm
used to working in engineering teams, and that means sometimes a few of
us go behind closed doors and "have it out" with our opinions and
views. Stuff we wouldn't want management to see -- but stuff management
can appreciate as long as they don't (because things get done).
The equivalent of that for a LUG is for us to take it off-list. Because
sometimes the "weaker stomaches" can't stand for people having heated
debates. ;-ppp
-- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org ------------------------------------------------------------------ "Communities don't have rights. Only individuals in the community have rights. ... That idea of community rights is firmly rooted in the 'Communist Manifesto.'" -- Michael Badnarik----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees.
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