On 12/24/06, xcalibre <xcalibre@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> I think for some reason you are snapping a bit here...
> Who said I would take advantage of expenses if they expect some one to
> travel and be a Evangelist they would
> have to pay for the travels... Did we not pay Maddog's Expenses....hmmm
> YES WE DID!
>
> So a $30.00 to $40.00 a night motel is out of the question when their
> other employees get top treatment
> say up to a few hundred per day? Yeah look out for that wallet.
>
That more than reasonable but with your attitude I would expect you to milk
the cow for all the money she was worth.
> Also who said I was saying anything about NDA is OK with others where did
> you draw that from
> I did not say that you jumped to that conclusion?
>
Because you got on Microsoft case about NDAs. Just saying there not the
only ones who use them so why even list such a illogical condition .
> Also you seem to be high strung on all the comments I made about
> Microsoft.
>
No I just dont like how you went about it. With half ass remarks and lame
jokes.
> As for access to their Products... Well how would we compare them to the
> Open Source Equivlants?
> What spend a few thousand dollars here and there out of pocket?
>
>
You would be given terminal server access to the applications you need. No
personal licences are allow to lead the campus. It was a hassle to fill out
all the forms just to let my friend Jason bring home a work copy of Visual
Studio. Most of the time they want you logged into a departmental terminal
server that has the requested applications installed.
You just came out jumping in anger on this whole thing so in best judgement
> to drop it..
> This was not to have some one come unglued and snap...
>
Anger no. You have not seen WeeRobby angery. This is not even a rant by my
standards.
> It was merely a way to give some things to think about and see how far
> would they honestly go to prove their
> Honesty and see if there is any strings attached...
>
> Hey Microsoft did a nice job with Corel when they Partnered supposedly and
> thus we see Corel say ok OUR FRIENDS and PARTNERS is wanting us to use .net,
> and give us money! OBTW when did the latest Corel WordPerfect for Linux Come
> out, Corel Draw for Linux? and Corel's OS... umm it has not since the
> Partnership...
>
>
Yet another BS truth by you.
A. Corel stop making a Wordperfect for linux and Corel Draw for linux long
before Corel jumped on the whole .Net deal.
B. They werent even native linux ports just windows hackjobs using wine
C. They were not completely stable either alot of strange bugs where in both
products mainly to item B.
Now wine development and it porting process to build linux compatible
binaries from windows application source code has become much better. I
believe they could come back out with another verison of WP for linux and
not have half the problems as there 2nd attempt at it. Will it happen no.
Why ? Because Wordperfect is a dying application that only found on a few
select oems on there machines they dont bundle office with.
I loved word perfect I grew up on wp 5.1 dos I still remember most of the
keyboard commands and still have the keyboard key card around here some
where. But you go ahead think the world is one giant MS conspircy and that
we all are really living in some pod full of goo to feed the electrical
needs of the MS supercomputer hive mind.
Oh how do you like the Partnership of Novell and Microsoft.. Must be nice
> to sing a Partnership being one of the Wealthiest Companys and yet get paid
> off from a company that is only a shadow of it's one self right?? Like
> Novell has 30 Million to give out to some one who demanded terms of Source
> Code given to them as well.
>
Oh what about the all the millions of dollars MS gave novell for support
contracts for there clients. Got Windows, Got a MS support Contract , Here
we are giving you a novell support contract for free. I now have 5 of
these ms supplied novell support contracts I have yet to register them .
But they were given out so corporations could try suse basically risk free.
With out worry of support.
I am not here to defend the novell deal with MS. I will let the novell
people explain for why the gave 30 million to MS.
> I am going to be straight up Microsoft does not want Open Source to exist
> or any where near them... They keep pushing us at two CTS Shows as in Leave
> our Booth, and Do not stand out front and give out Free Cd's and Swag obtw
> only Microsoft could give out Limited Demos at the show and was trying to
> get us thrown out! Fact there was witnesses to this and even a few stories
> done on this with us.
>
>
Again plain and simple if it is a Microsoft event it the farest thing from
Linux world your going to get.
That is like standing in a Coke Share holders meeting trying to hand out
free pepsi.
Also guess who was at ITEC when we first did shows? Guess what everyone was
> on the list for the event We Were Not!
> The Person who booked us told me that someone did not want us to have
> presence there also they protested to his Boss about putting us on the Event
> List.
>
>
Hey money talks. Yeah you got screwed. But nothing stops you from
protesting outside on public property.
Enough I'm done with this whole topic!!!...
>
Oh no you cant be done with it you started it!
> Happy Holidays...
> Bill Preece...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Snyder
> Sent: Dec 24, 2006 9:00 PM
> To: slug@nks.net
> Subject: Re: [SLUG] Robins Article About Microsoft Open Source Evangelist
>
>
>
> On 12/24/06, michael hast <evylrobot19@cox.net> wrote:
> >
> > Robert Snyder wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On 12/23/06, *xcalibre* < xcalibre@mindspring.com
> > > <mailto:xcalibre@mindspring.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > After Microsoft carrying the death kneel with them I would have to
> > > have Microsoft sign a few things...
> > >
> > > A agreement not to sue or pursue any legal action for talking to
> > > Open Source Reporters about the intent of what Microsoft is up to
> > > by wanting a Open Source Evangelist.
> > >
> > > Next a agreement to not force some one to sign a NDA on any Open
> > > Source Matters or Concerns that Microsoft has.
> > >
> > >
> > > Why should you target Microsoft.
> > Ummm... Probably because they make it their business to crush the
> > competition so that they can be a monopoly, and we as members of a LUG
> > ARE the competition. That's what I would guess, but I could be wrong...
> > > I have seen Redhat NDAs and I am sure Redhat is not the only LINUX
> > > COMPANY to use them. They deal strictly with open source so why
> > > should they be given a by and Microsoft be forced disclose everything.
>
>
> My problem is why should Microsoft be singled out like they are the only
> one sending out NDA. So in bill's little world if MS does a NDA=bad if
> Redhat does a NDA = good?
>
>
> >
> > >
> > > Next an agreement not to force anyone to sign a no compete form.
> > >
> > >
> > > Another one sided MS low blow. They cant force anyone to sign a non
> > > compete form, if they did such a thing the federal government would be
> > > all over them like white on rice.
> > There is such a thing as brown rice, Rob. In fact, if every piece of
> > software is a grain of rice, by your argument, M$ would be a big bag of
> > Uncle Ben's brown rice that Uncle Ben is trying very hard to shove down
> > YOUR throat even though you like fried rice, and I like short-grain
> > sushi rice. The fact of the matter is that MS has done illegal acts
> > time and time again with no recourse from the govt. When a company gets
> > strong enough, they tend to put themselves over the government. It
> > seems that the EU is the only government that has the balls to hassle
> > M$, and they should be applauded for all of their childish harassment of
> > the Giant. I'm sorry. That may be a little one-sided, but if M$ had it
> >
> > their way, I wouldn't have a choice but to use their crappy OS, and I'd
> > have to pay a buttload for it.
>
>
> This has to do with his "force other companys to sign non compete
> contracts" They force Lotus, IBM , etc to sign anything. They use other
> dirty methods but microsoft is not threatening to sue companies they
> competition and make them sign non compete contracts.
>
> Does MS use dirty handed tatics yes. But not the the degree bill would
> like you to belive.
>
>
>
> >
> > > Next a agreement not to sue some one for coming up with product or
> > > solution or claim it is intellectual property of Microsoft because
> >
> > > it can do some thing that Microsoft or its products can not.
> > >
> > >
> > > MS and Intellectual property,well that is a 20 page rant so I will
> > > just skip this one.
> > There are few subjects that are not a 20-page rant for Wee Robbie, so I
> > will skip this one.
>
>
> ditto
>
> >
> > > Next a form to allow the person to still be a member of a Lug
> > > without any strings attached.
> > >
> > >
> > > I have friends who are Microsoft Employees who attend lug meetings
> > > with out fear of loosing there job. ( it is a ms myth that they fire
> > > linux users ) They go as them selves and not representives of MS.
> > The testimony of someone who has a friend is hardly evidence. This is
> > called urban legend. Get them posting here to speak for themselves.
> > First-person testimony holds its own weight.
>
>
> Well I did not word it correctly then. As on a summer vacation I spent 2
> weeks up in redmond area, and went to a lug meeting with my two friends got
> a tour of there office. Most of how I based my knowledge on is on
> experiences I had on the microsoft campus.
>
> > Next a agreement to allow the person to wear any Polo Dress Style
> > > Shirts with a Lug, or Linux Product Logo or a TUX.
> > >
> > >
> > > Just like it is ok for a pepsi employee to wear coke stuff to work and
> > > around town right?
> > Bill, I can't back you up here. You didn't specify when you would wear
> > said shirt.
> > >
> > >
> > > Next a agreement to allow the person to hand out Linux Cd's at any
> > > Microsoft Event or Location without being forced to move away from
> > > the event or Location.
> > >
> > >
> > > This is a Microsoft Event not Linuxworld. If they paid for there both
> > > at a MS Event well you would have a point. But I would not want a cd
> > > shoved in my face any more than I want the local homeless begging me
> > > for beer money.
> > Sorry. I have to agree with Robbie on this one as well.
> > >
> > >
> > > Next Microsoft Agrees that any event they are at such as a CTS, or
> > > ITEC to allow the persons Lug to participate in as well and
> > > advertise such that there is Open Source Presence with out trying
> > > to run them off or their members wearing any Linux Logo Shirts.
> > >
> > >
> > > Agreed assuming the lug paid for there spot at the event like everyone
> >
> > > else.
> > >
> > > Next Microsoft to agree to make the person a part of their Tech
> > > Net, give a 2 year Action Pack Subscription.
> > >
> > >
> > > Why? why should MS give you any thing! They are not a chairity.
> > Well, assuming that M$ wanted something from Bill, what's in it for
> > Bill? That's why he should get plenty of freebies.
>
>
> He would have access to the company store like everyone else. No need for
> freebies.
>
>
> > Also access to any Beta Products especially anything that will
> > > interact with Open Source Software or Linux.
> > >
> > >
> > > See the above topic unreasonable.
> > Well, M$ has been doing some free (as in beer, anyway) releases of beta
> > and RC software to a small degree. (Vista. Admittedly, Vista RC-1 is a
> > little rough around the edges. Drivers don't work well on it, and you
> > ironically can't use your Zune player with it.) The price is right, I
> > suppose...
>
>
> Yes but MS also keeps alot of betas behind closed doors for reasons.
>
> >
> > > Finally agree a person to write about their adventures and
> > > experiences with Microsoft without being sued for any royalty.
> > >
> > >
> > > Many speak freely with out concern. Yet another MS myth. While it
> > > has happend in the pass it is not a common day occurence.
> > I have not seen a whole lot of testimonials from present or former M$
> > employees or affiliates. The lack thereof seems to debunk the
> > declaration of myth. Not proof, admittedly, but certainly indication.
>
>
> Apparently you have not been surfing the blogsphere there are lots of ex
> ms employees who are speaking out. So far ms has yet to request that the
> blogs be pulled.
>
> > I doubt this would even have any chance for Microsoft to Agree to
> > > all these Terms. OBTW I almost forgot Microsoft to sign an
> > > Agreement for any Expenses up front that the person may encounter,
> > > Travel, Food, Lodging, Rental Car, etc.,
> > >
> > >
> > > Please again see the above about MS not being a chairity.
> > Bill is not asking for handouts here, but compensation. I don't think
> > that it is unreasonable to ask an employer or partner to compensate for
> > expenses relevant to their expectations.
>
>
> I dont know comming from Bill it would seem like he would go out of his
> way to abuse the expenses.
> Like staying in a 6k a night Suite at the Ritz ( yes folks they have
> whole penthouse suites for 6k a night you can call the Sarasota Ritz for
> confirmation )
>
>
> > I seriously think they would have a Stroke over these conditions.
> > > If not then I would maybe tempted.
> > >
> > >
> > > Or think that your a lunatic one of the two.
> > Rob, that would be "...you're a lunatic..." You want to say that Bill
> > is a lunatic, not that he owns one. But, I disagree totally. I think
> > that he makes some good points here, even if his original post was a
> > little on the random side. Bill is a unique character, but I don't
> > think there's a single person on this list (your's truly included) that
> > is not. This list wouldn't be nearly as fun otherwise. So, keep up the
> > good work. That means both of you, Bill and Wee Robbie.
> > >
> > > Bill Preece
> > >
> > > P.S. Robin please contact me when you get a chance.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > > official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees.
> > >
> > >
> >
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