>> I would be surprised if you showed me a consumer grade opengl card.
Surprise!
_Any_ nVidia GeForce video card will run OpenGL, not just the high end
workstation cards. Same for all the modern ATI cards.
OpenGL can interface with pretty much any card with 3D hardware. NT/W2K/XP
(and others) had the ability to render OpenGL in software, so even non-3D
cards would work with OpenGL apps. That's the beauty of OpenGL - it can be
supported by cheap 3D cards, and gets faster with workstation cards. That's
why it's sad to see what MS is doing.
Ken Elliott
=====================
________________________________
From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Robert Snyder
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 8:38 AM
To: slug@nks.net
Subject: Re: [SLUG] Vista runs CAD almost 10X slower
On 2/3/07, Ken Elliott <kelliott11@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>> If they did there would be optimized opengl cards instead of
optimized
direct x cards ( With the notable workstation exceptions of the ATI
FireGL
and the Nvidia Quadro series of cards )
Those game cards also support OpenGL. There are actually more
OpenGL cards
than DirectX 10 cards.
Well There is only a handful of DX10 graphics cards because DX10 is for
vista only... A mistake on Microsoft part. But considering its launch was
only a few days ago I did not expect to see a huge outpouring of cards right
away. But now compare it to say DirectX 9 cards and it so lopsided it is
not funny. I would be surprised if you showed me a consumer grade opengl
card. Not a workstation card card from ATI or NVIDA or Matrox or S3.... But
a Optimized OpenGL card that I can go down to best buy and pick up right
now.
>> This is unfortnately another example of people crying foul way
after
the fact.
No, the CAD industry have been complaining to MS about this for over
a year.
No I was reffering to people complaining about DirectX long after it had
the market. The consordium of companies that approve the opengl
specfications allowed MS to take off and run with DirectX and let it become
the defacto standard. Now that MS has decided that OpenGL was qoute on
qoute Useless they dumped it on top of DX10.
>> This was another area that other people let Microsoft take
control over
of. Part of the reason is the slow moving process of adding new
features to
opengl, while directx development progresses.
OpenGL has been a stable and mature technology for a decade, thanks
to
Silicon Graphics. It was DirectX that has been trying to catch up
to
OpenGL. MS adopted OpenGL in the early days of NT to encourage
Unix-based
CAD programs to port to NT. Now that this has been done, MS is
backstabbing
the industry, and they don't like it one bit. Several have told me
that
there is no way they will port, and their customers will stick to XP
rather
than use Vista. There is a _lot_ of talk of it being easier to port
to
Linux and Mac, rather than convert to DirectX. Let's see who blinks
first.
A why are they even using XP. I find XP to be over bloated and pointless.
Why would they want to upgrade to vista in the first place.
This is how I see it people dont upgrade to vista, in a bold move in sp1 MS
removes the opengl emulation from directx and puts opengl back on its own.
Everyone is happy.
The general rule of business is that you stay one version behind MS to keep
from having to face these issues. It will be fix.or 3d card companies will
leave some people will whine others wont.
>> While I know and have seen this CAD program velum before this
article
from the 10 or so people I know who use CAD only one uses velum.
Autodesk
is the 900 pound gorilla. And while I hate installing Autocad and
going
through the ms like activation hoops that is what everyone just uses
AutoCAD does not use OpenGL and is not affected by this. It is all
the
higher end 3D CAD programs, like Solidworks, SolidEdge, CATIA,
ProEngineer,
Unigraphics, Alibre, IronCAD, Think3, Rhino, and so on. 2D programs
have no
use for OpenGL, only solid modelers and other such 3D programs are
affected,
but this is the stuff that lies at the cutting edge. AutoCAD is old
stuff,
and 3D modelers like Solidworks are growing like wildfire. My
Solidworks/FEA machine is a quad Xeon with 16GB of RAM, if that
gives you
any idea of the level of power we are talking about. At this level,
the
application dictates what OS is used. MS worked hard to get into
this
market and could easily lose it. This is where all the 64-bit
action is
happening.
Yes I got to play with Solidworks for a while, for some reason I got on
there mailing list and kept snail mail spaming me with aol type trial disk
I know what kind of power your talking about I tried it out on an IBM
workstation I picked up for a song a while ago dual 2.0ghz xeons 4 gigs of
RDRAM 1600 3 10000 rpm 36 scsi 3 drives in striped array. ATI FireGL card.
It ran and it ran ok but you could tell when it was rendering the emense
input lag there is. Which still brings me to my first question why is
anyone using vista in the first place.
I'll be visiting the Dassault and Solidworks folks this week. This
is one
of the topics we will be discussing.
Ken Elliott
=====================
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