On 2/4/07, Ken Elliott <kelliott11@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >> I would be surprised if you showed me a consumer grade opengl card.
>
> Surprise!
>
> _Any_ nVidia GeForce video card will run OpenGL, not just the high end
> workstation cards. Same for all the modern ATI cards.
Yes any of them will but they are not optimized for OpenGL like the FireGL
and Quardo series cards. They merely support opengl.
OpenGL can interface with pretty much any card with 3D hardware. NT/W2K/XP
> (and others) had the ability to render OpenGL in software, so even non-3D
> cards would work with OpenGL apps. That's the beauty of OpenGL - it can
> be
> supported by cheap 3D cards, and gets faster with workstation
> cards. That's
> why it's sad to see what MS is doing.
>
>
> Ken Elliott
>
> =====================
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Robert Snyder
> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 8:38 AM
> To: slug@nks.net
> Subject: Re: [SLUG] Vista runs CAD almost 10X slower
>
>
>
>
> On 2/3/07, Ken Elliott <kelliott11@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >> If they did there would be optimized opengl cards instead of
> optimized
> direct x cards ( With the notable workstation exceptions of the ATI
> FireGL
> and the Nvidia Quadro series of cards )
>
> Those game cards also support OpenGL. There are actually more
> OpenGL cards
> than DirectX 10 cards.
>
>
>
> Well There is only a handful of DX10 graphics cards because DX10 is for
> vista only... A mistake on Microsoft part. But considering its launch
> was
> only a few days ago I did not expect to see a huge outpouring of cards
> right
> away. But now compare it to say DirectX 9 cards and it so lopsided it is
> not funny. I would be surprised if you showed me a consumer grade opengl
> card. Not a workstation card card from ATI or NVIDA or Matrox or S3....
> But
> a Optimized OpenGL card that I can go down to best buy and pick up right
> now.
>
>
> >> This is unfortnately another example of people crying foul way
> after
> the fact.
>
> No, the CAD industry have been complaining to MS about this for
> over
> a year.
>
>
>
> No I was reffering to people complaining about DirectX long after it had
> the market. The consordium of companies that approve the opengl
> specfications allowed MS to take off and run with DirectX and let it
> become
> the defacto standard. Now that MS has decided that OpenGL was qoute on
> qoute Useless they dumped it on top of DX10.
>
>
> >> This was another area that other people let Microsoft take
> control over
> of. Part of the reason is the slow moving process of adding new
> features to
> opengl, while directx development progresses.
>
> OpenGL has been a stable and mature technology for a decade, thanks
> to
> Silicon Graphics. It was DirectX that has been trying to catch up
> to
> OpenGL. MS adopted OpenGL in the early days of NT to encourage
> Unix-based
> CAD programs to port to NT. Now that this has been done, MS is
> backstabbing
> the industry, and they don't like it one bit. Several have told me
> that
> there is no way they will port, and their customers will stick to
> XP
> rather
> than use Vista. There is a _lot_ of talk of it being easier to
> port
> to
> Linux and Mac, rather than convert to DirectX. Let's see who
> blinks
> first.
>
>
> A why are they even using XP. I find XP to be over bloated and pointless.
> Why would they want to upgrade to vista in the first place.
> This is how I see it people dont upgrade to vista, in a bold move in sp1
> MS
> removes the opengl emulation from directx and puts opengl back on its own.
> Everyone is happy.
> The general rule of business is that you stay one version behind MS to
> keep
> from having to face these issues. It will be fix.or 3d card companies
> will
> leave some people will whine others wont.
>
>
> >> While I know and have seen this CAD program velum before this
> article
> from the 10 or so people I know who use CAD only one uses velum.
> Autodesk
> is the 900 pound gorilla. And while I hate installing Autocad and
> going
> through the ms like activation hoops that is what everyone just
> uses
>
> AutoCAD does not use OpenGL and is not affected by this. It is all
> the
> higher end 3D CAD programs, like Solidworks, SolidEdge, CATIA,
> ProEngineer,
> Unigraphics, Alibre, IronCAD, Think3, Rhino, and so on. 2D
> programs
> have no
> use for OpenGL, only solid modelers and other such 3D programs are
> affected,
> but this is the stuff that lies at the cutting edge. AutoCAD is
> old
> stuff,
> and 3D modelers like Solidworks are growing like wildfire. My
> Solidworks/FEA machine is a quad Xeon with 16GB of RAM, if that
> gives you
> any idea of the level of power we are talking about. At this
> level,
> the
> application dictates what OS is used. MS worked hard to get into
> this
> market and could easily lose it. This is where all the 64-bit
> action is
> happening.
>
>
> Yes I got to play with Solidworks for a while, for some reason I got on
> there mailing list and kept snail mail spaming me with aol type trial disk
> I know what kind of power your talking about I tried it out on an IBM
> workstation I picked up for a song a while ago dual 2.0ghz xeons 4 gigs of
> RDRAM 1600 3 10000 rpm 36 scsi 3 drives in striped array. ATI FireGL
> card.
> It ran and it ran ok but you could tell when it was rendering the emense
> input lag there is. Which still brings me to my first question why is
> anyone using vista in the first place.
>
>
> I'll be visiting the Dassault and Solidworks folks this week. This
> is one
> of the topics we will be discussing.
>
> Ken Elliott
>
> =====================
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked
> Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages
> posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the
> official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees.
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked
Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages
posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the
official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees.
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.3 : Fri Aug 01 2014 - 15:14:06 EDT