>>If you think I made an example of Chad, you bet I did.
I think you made an example of yourself. I'd suggest you save those
messages and re-read them some day. Perhaps you will discover something
about yourself.
>>I was very "bullish" on my desire to get him to stop comparing and
contrasting on Fedora, based on assumptions about it.
That makes you a bully, not "bullish".
>>No, I knew _exact_ what I was doing. It _was_ a _blantant_ abuse of the
list.
Yes. This was not a technical discussion as you want to believe. Chad has
every right to make his statements. You have the right to disagree and say
so. But it seems to me that you went on the attack and tried to punish him.
In your words:
>>If you think I made an example of Chad, you bet I did.
You made a number of highly inaccurate "Nth hand" statements about CAD,
while posing as a CAD expert. It left me with you conclusion that you don't
know what you are talking about. I did try to offer carefully worded
corrections, taking great care not to offend. So before you start trying to
make an example of people, you better realize the same could be done of you.
Admitting your behavior with out offering an apology is interesting. But if
you intend to bully people, I'd suggest you leave. The value of any
technical information you offer is overshadowed by your behavior.
--- Fellows, I'm sorry I replied to this. I'll stop now and will no longer reply to this subject. Brian, feel free to reply in as many pages as you wish, but if you want me to read it, you'll have to contact me off-list.Ken Elliott ===================== Beware of advocates who bully those who disagree with them. Such advocacy is hurtful to those they advocate.
===================== -----Original Message----- From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Bryan J. Smith Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:14 AM To: slug@nks.net Subject: [SLUG] RE: List Chaos.
On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 20:31, Ken Elliott wrote: > To me, it seems that you and Chad got into a tug-of-war.
Yes we did.
> You seemed to be offended
Not offended, trying to make a point.
> and kept punching his buttons when you could have said your piece and > let it go.
Yes, you are correct. I don't deny it. It was a _massive_ abuse of the list on my part. I was trying to make a point, one that I had let go before, only to see it repeated time and time again.
If you think I made an example of Chad, you bet I did. He has now stopped. I shouldn't have answered you before because it's not fair to him.
> Chad could have done the same.
I just wanted Chad to stop comparing and contrasting distros. He kept digging a deeper and deeper hole with his assumptions on Fedora. There was a very simple logic at work.
He has now stopped. And that is very gentleman of him.
> But it does seem to me that Chad made an effort to stop
He did not until today. I was not looking for an apology, I was looking for him to stop comparing and contrasting. He has now stopped.
> and you kept trying to have the last word.
As long as he kept making assumptions, I provided technical fact. I'm sure I could have done it better, far better.
> Please trust me when I say that this comes across as 'bullying'.
I'm very sure it did. I was very "bullish" on my desire to get him to stop comparing and contrasting on Fedora, based on assumptions about it.
> I don't believe you meant to, but that's how it appears.
No, I knew _exact_ what I was doing. It _was_ a _blantant_ abuse of the list. If some feel I should be banned because I _did_ have specific intent, then I will accept that.
But I had a point to make. One that I've let go on and on and on before, only to see more and more and more people do it. I don't deny I was a bully. But I had a point to make.
> It was certainly NOT 100% technical.
I'm sure I slipped at times. But I had 1 goal in mind.
> I suggest that all of us stop with this thread.
Chad has stopped. I have to appreciate that.
> I value your technical insights, but this thread reflects badly on the > participants.
I'm sure it does.
Everyone has an opinion on Red Hat, even if they haven't used it. Especially in the case of Fedora, which is very different now -- especially since there is the Fedora Project as well as the Fedora Core release, etc...
And more changes are to come.
-- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org ------------------------------------------------------------------ Beware of advocates who justify their preference not in terms of what they like about their "choice," but what they did not like about another option. Such advocacy is more hurtful than helpful.
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