On Sun, 2004-10-17 at 09:46, Ken Elliott wrote:
> But didn't this thread start off by someone looking for a KVM switch,
> complaining about Sun's use of different connectors?
Yes, and I pointed out there _are_ KVMs with _both_ PC and SUN.
Furthermore, PS/2 is quite _PC_only_, as well as the PC layout.
By your same view, old Mac, Digital, etc... are "proprietary."
Just because it's not "commodity" doesn't mean "proprietary."
In fact, Digital's 12-year old serial bus was better than USB.
Lastly, you _can_ buy a USB KVM switch and it solves the problem nicely
for _all_ newer systems -- be it PC, Mac, SUN, etc...
> Of course. That was my point. I want freedom of choice, not to be locked
> into what one vendor chooses to make available.
It's _not_ "lock-in." SUN _will_ take a PC keyboard/mouse, as well as
newer USB devices. Stop calling it "lock-in"!
> And to be able to use common KVM switches found at local stores.
And that's understandable -- i.e., you prefer "commodity."
But just because it is not "commodity" doesn't mean "lock-in" or
"proprietary."
> As far as I know, Sun doesn't. Here's examples of what kind of input
> devices I'm talking about:
> http://www.fingerworks.com/
> http://www.maltron.com/
Here you are lecturing _me_ on "vendors" and yet you provide _vendor_
sites? Of course, some vendors are going to be PC-only. But that does
_not_ mean _other_vendors_ do not exist that provide the same for SUN,
Mac, etc...! Get off it dude!
> When I looked at it, it seems like "bling" to me. There's lots of 3D
> interface work, and over 15 years, none of it has ever taken hold, because
> none of it has ever proven to be anything but "cool demo-ware".
That's because 99% of the IT media and IT professionals out there have
_totally_missed_ the fact that Looking Glass is _not_ about 3D! They
have provided a "technology demonstration" that shows off its 3D
capabilities, but Looking Glass itself is a "next generation subsystem
with API" for X.
> I'm amused by them calling it "true 3D" when it displays on a 2D device.
That's because the "next generation subsystem with API" that is _fully_
3D -- from input to output. Of course, people like yourself don't
bother to read the technical documentation, so you don't know this.
Read up on what "Looking Glass" _is_ -- not what the media says about
just the "technology demonstration." Honest to God, it's bad enough I
deal with Windows people who don't bother to "read all the details," but
com'mon, I'm sick of this on a Linux list.
I guess that's why I make the big bucks. I read the hardcore stuff, and
predict changes in the industry 3+ years before they happen. I can also
explain why companies do things, from a non-enthusiast point of view. I
can even explain Microsoft (e.g., you first have to understand they are
an investment company, not a software company).
> Even the CAD world has still been dragging in 2D to 3D conversion.
Define "CAD" because a lot of people think "CAD" means Autodesk products
and no one else. That's just said, especially when you ignore CAM,
modeling and, even more so, EDA.
> It seems cool to flip a window around to make notes,
Again, _stop_ assuming "Looking Glass" = "technology demonstration."
Read up on what Looking Glass _is_.
> but when you use it, you hide the content. So, you end up flipping the
> screen back-and-forth. A pop-up note window works far better.
I can't even respond because you're talking about the "technology
demonstration." That is _not_ the Looking Glass project, just a sample
of what it can do on today's input/output devices.
When you see Looking Glass on an LCD+lenticular screen, with eyeball
tracking, you'll see what it's capable of. It's a _true_ 3D output
_and_ input subsystem and API, tying into X, although augmenting it
heavily.
> Another case of looks cool, doesn't really work well, and
> eats CPU cycles, while obsolescing older hardware. Great for Sun, bad for
> users. Can't see what this has to do with the issue of special connectors
> preventing the use a standard KVM switches, though.
Exactly. Because you started talking about the "technology
demonstration" instead of focusing on what I was trying to talk about,
that Sun has furthered "accessibility" with various components in GNOME
through their latest Looking Glass project.
The problem is that most people only assume things based on what they
know. I recommend you go research Sun Microsystems, look at all the
_standards_ they adhere to and create, read up on their GNOME
accessibility donations and read up more on Looking Glass and what it
_really_does_ to Linux/X.
> Odd, that you assume I'm "just" a PC user - a poor assumption on _your_
> part.
I make that assumption based on your responses. You obviously are not
familiar with the details I discussed. And you seem to be argumentative
about things you don't know about -- e.g., Looking Glass.
Looking Glass is probably the most misunderstood project right now.
That's typically of the IT media and professionals who look at the "eye
candy" of a "demo" and not the technical substance in the project.
> My point is that use of common connectors and interfaces is desirable, when
> possible. That allows us for example, to buy a KVM switch from a local
> store. You offer no case as to why Sun's choice is of any advantage.
I _never_ said SUN offered an "advantage."
I did say PC is not necessarily better.
Especially since "commodity" is not necessarily better.
PS/2 and DB15 is very PC-centric, commodity, but not necessarily better.
Apple, Sun and, especially, Digital serial buses were better than USB.
And 13W3 is a far better video connector than DB15.
I never said "commodity" didn't have its advantages.
But I _did_ say it was not necessarily "better" because of them.
PC users seem to not differentiate between the two.
And that's why most PC hardware is Windows version-specific.
Hence the "superstore profit model" which I have discussed in detail
elsewhere.
And why AOL, Microsoft and other hardware/software companies own
significant percentages of Best Buy, Circuit City, CompUSA, etc...
> If there is, please be so kind as to educate me.
Again, don't confuse "commodity" with "better."
Also read up on Sun.
-- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org ------------------------------------------------------------------ "Communities don't have rights. Only individuals in the community have rights. ... That idea of community rights is firmly rooted in the 'Communist Manifesto.'" -- Michael Badnarik----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees.
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