A few thoughts:
I think we can all agree that e-mail doesn't convey some thoughts very well,
and some things come across the wrong way. Perhaps we should allow emotions
to settle before responding.
All of us tend to step on one another's toes (top vs. bottom posters,
subject line editing, certain comments). I have found myself jumping in and
pounding on some subject, when it was actually just a release of emotion
pent-up from some other area (frustration at work, politics, relationships).
I believe many of us do this and the smart thing would be for us to let it
go. This can be difficult when we "push buttons" and trigger emotional
responses.
This all started because Red Hat posted what appears to be inaccurate
information about the minimum amount of RAM required. Now, it is better
policy to err on the high side, but the information did come from the
vendor. Statements were made that you could actually use less. That's good
news, if accurate. I certainly don't know. But it's up to the person who
asked for the information to find out if _he_ can make _his_ system work.
That's all that really matters. My history with Red Hat is poor - lots of
installation problems. Other distros have worked much better on _my_
hardware with _me_ doing the install. But that is no indication of the
quality of Red Hat. It's just one statistic.
It really doesn't matter if knowledge is obtained first, second or 67th
hand. What matters is the accuracy. Inaccurate knowledge gained first hand
is still of little or no value. Accurate information is of value, no matter
how it is obtained. To restrict information on the basis of degree of
separation strikes me as poor policy. I suggest we continue to offer our
information, opinion and speculations, and recognize that those who are
better informed are doing a service by providing "error correction". If we
remove our egos, then we have a healthy information sharing system.
There are very few rules here. Most of us have no right to make demands of
others. We are in this for the common good. Shouldn't we treat it as such?
Ken Elliott
=====================
-----Original Message-----
From: slug@nks.net [mailto:slug@nks.net] On Behalf Of Bryan J. Smith
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 1:10 PM
To: slug@nks.net
Subject: [SLUG] Re: OT: picked up a screw around rig today
On Sun, 2004-12-05 at 09:15, Chad Perrin wrote:
> The fact that I tend to agree with you about much of Red Hat's
> business practices and support of the community doesn't change the
> fact that it's absurd for you to turn discussions of Debian, SuSE, et
> cetera into billboards for advertising your favorite distribution.
I don't think the discussion was _on_ Debian, but what someone could do with
a 64MB system. You offered Debian. That was fine. I didn't disagree with
that at all.
But how my offering a _specific_ GUI that runs will in 64MB on ~200MHz by
installing Fedora Core 2 a "billboard for advertising [my] favorite
distribution" any more than your offer of Debian?
> Who said anything about "no one" paying attention to you? Not I,
> surely. I said only that "people" (meaning some, not all, people)
> would probably pay you more attention if (et cetera). This was in
> response to your own complaints that we didn't pay attention to your
> much-vaunted first person experience.
I wrote _2_ sentences in my _2nd_ post that _two_ people quoted.
In fact, my first 2 posts that precede all the non-sense were _very_
"on-point." Don't want to re-read them? Here we go ...
Response #1 (_including_ quotes):
Bill Glidden wrote:
> Along these same lines, I just inherited a 500Mhz Celeron with
64MB of RAM. Should I get more memory or will this suffice?
On Sat, 2004-12-04 at 10:29, Chad Perrin wrote:
> Debian'll install (and run) on that just fine. Heh.
> I guess it depends on what you're going to do with the box once
> you get it running.
Starting with Red Hat CL4 (Fedora Core 2-4/RHEL 4), Red Hat includes
XFCE as a standard GUI option. Shortly after Fedora Core 2 was
released, Alan Cox boasted he was running Fedora Core 2 on a 225MHz
IDT WinChip2 with 48MB of RAM.
But in a nutshell, memory is far more important than clock. I'd
rather have a 1GHz P3 with 1GB of RAM than a 3.2GHz P4 with 256MB of
RAM -- 10-fold. Heck, I/O is more important than CPU these days, even
on desktops.
Response #2 (top posted response to your installer comment):
Red Hat purposely overstates for the "worst possibility."
Even 24MB is definitely doable if swap is created.
Now if those are "tangents" (especially answering your "question" on the
installer requirements), then I'm _guilty_ as charged!
> Insinuating that I've said nothing you say is of value is a cheap
> tactic, and I suspect nobody on this list is so stupid as to fall for it.
Dude, re-read the thread. Look at how _you_ approached and _you_ took it
for a "wild ride," even though I _tried_ to be "short and sweet" on
_technical_specifics_.
Also note that I don't start accusing you until you start accusing me.
Not that it matters "who starts it," because we _all_lose_!
> Wheee. So, now, I'm not allowed to question information that isn't
> evident? Is that it?
Re-read the thread.
> Is this about ME now? ... cut ...
Apparently we can't "just get along." So I'm not responding to you anymore.
I'm not even going to look at this anymore, because it's only going to hurt
the list.
Let's just make it a rule not to respond to each other. I'm stay clear of
threads you post in. E.g., in this thread, since you posted first, I would
have _not_ interjected my $0.02 on XFCE/Fedora, or even the memory/CPU
comment.
I'll just stay clear because it's apparent we can't respect each other
enough. Fair?
-- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- Subtotal Cost of Ownership (SCO) for Windows being less than Linux Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) assumes experts for the former, costly retraining for the latter, omitted "software assurance" costs in compatible desktop OS/apps for the former, no free/legacy reuse for latter, and no basic security, patch or downtime comparison at all.----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees.
----------------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided as an unmoderated internet service by Networked Knowledge Systems (NKS). Views and opinions expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of NKS or any of its employees.
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